1677 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Siansonea II wrote...

Hating gays is also covered by the term homophobia. But let's not debate semantics, because let's face it, in the battle of wits, you're the unarmed man.

You think I'm a homophobe?

[Siansonea]

coolair74 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Having one or two former acquaintances come up to Shepard and say "you know, I don't know if you'd be interested, but I've been thinking of you differently lately, and I don't know, I think I want to see where it goes."

Then Shepard says " Sorry but Im NOT GAY, get the hell back down to the forward batteries!"

Methinks thou dost protest too much. You have my sympathy, it must be hard to be in such an agitated emotional state about the possibility of gay content in a game. Thinkin' this subject hits a very sensitive nerve, and I can think of only one reason someone could be that sensitive about it...

[coolair74]

NanQuan wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

NanQuan wrote...

I don't understand the use of DA2 as an example of bisexual relationships. The characters aren't bisexual in DA2. Some characters change sexuality based on the player's profile. For example, If you play as male, Anders will be homosexual and if you play as female he will be heterosexual. Then the player has the OPTION to romance him. You however, are not forced to and he will not push the issue unless you pick to flirt with him. Hell, I flirted with him in DA2 just to keep my options open, but when I decided to say no thanks to Anders, he never pressed the issue again. There was just no longer any romantic tension. And I thought that worked just fine. The closest I ever got to unwanted advances in DA2 was from Isabella, even though I never chose to flirt with her, but come on - it's isabella. That's to be expected.

I also disagree that DA2 had cheaper romances than ME2. In my opinion, the only relationship between BOTH games that offers any real closure is Liara's and she is bisexual. I'm not saying the romances are bad, and there is variety so that people will be pleased, but I see no real difference between DA2 and ME1&2 romances with the exception of Liara (and only Liara if we count LotSB; without that it is the same as the others). And that's really only because her's is the most fleshed out and it doesn't hurt that it has the most content thus far.

My point is, that you shouldn't really be afraid of bisexual love interests in ME3 because if they are like DA2 (like you said) then they won't be bisexual. They'll change sexuality depending on your shep's gender. And if it's done like DA2, then they won't make advances at you unless you also make advances at them. So there won't be a problem because if you don't want Garrus or whoever to be homosexual, then he won't be because you won't flirt with him.

Liara is not bi, she is anything sexual.  She really isnt a she, more of a she/he that looks like a she but can be a he ,at least biologically, if the situation calls for it.

But you can use whatever logic you want.  Anders wasnt gay before and now he is all the sudden?  His Bio in Awakining said , he only wants a warm fire, a pretty girl and something to shoot lightning at. That is what we dont want for ME3.

HEAR ME BIOWARE!

Since we have not seen a species with more than two sexualities, i.e. male and female, then bisexual would still apply to Liara, regardless of whether she herself is monogendered. If you want to have all your bases covered, we can refer to her as omnisexual, but that seems pointless when bisexual will suffice.

As for Anders, I did not play Awakening, so if he was clearly heterosexual and it is something that defined him, as you suggest, then hey you found an inconsistency between the games. My point, however, was that Anders being heterosexual or homosexual depending on gender in no way detracted from my playthrough. Now, to be fair, I can see how in some cases, such as garrus, it has been suggested that he is straight and for him to suddenly not be would be weird.  And if you want to keep it that way, then you simply wouldn't flirt with him or make advances as a male shep, correct?  He also never indicates in the game that he is 1) into humans or 2) into femshep, but if you flirt with him then you can initiate a romance anyway. I didn't flirt with him with my femshep, so in my playthrough, Garrus isn't interested in shepard, even if she is a woman.  simple as that.

Actually Bi-sexual would not suffice since that implies 2 genders, what if there is another monosexual race? Or an asexual race that breed by sneezing out spores? Omni works a bit better.

Thing is , as ive stated 600 times, Shepard ISNT GAY. His character is not gay. In no way should that change now, even if you are gay, Shepard isnt, he isnt you , he is Shepard, strait man of liking the girls.

[Siansonea]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Hating gays is also covered by the term homophobia. But let's not debate semantics, because let's face it, in the battle of wits, you're the unarmed man.

You think I'm a homophobe?

I don't know you that well Ramirez, I'm not trying to label you. And my response was actually intended for coolair74.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I have to agree with the OP. I was disappointed that I didn't get to romance Ashley as a female Shepard in ME 1, but if I suddenly could in Mass Effect 3 I'll be really annoyed. It just seems kind of silly that she'd suddenly be attracted to Shepard when nothing changed since the first game, and from a simpler perspective, it seems a little late to peruse a relationship with her that late in the series for either gender Shepard. To be honest I thought even Garrus and Tali were a little bit of a stretch. Regarding Dragon Age 2, Maybe it was just me, but I thought Anders being a romance option for anyone was a little strange.

Jack is the only person who I'd maaaybe want to see suddenly be a bi option, and that is only because she specifically mentioned it in conversation.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 22 mars 2011 - 05:15 .

[mousestalker]

Not one of my LI's in DA2 has been bisexual. They have all been exclusively interested in the sex my Hawke is. So what exactly is the problem?

[coolair74]

Siansonea II wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Having one or two former acquaintances come up to Shepard and say "you know, I don't know if you'd be interested, but I've been thinking of you differently lately, and I don't know, I think I want to see where it goes."

Then Shepard says " Sorry but Im NOT GAY, get the hell back down to the forward batteries!"

Methinks thou dost protest too much. You have my sympathy, it must be hard to be in such an agitated emotional state about the possibility of gay content in a game. Thinkin' this subject hits a very sensitive nerve, and I can think of only one reason someone could be that sensitive about it...

Of course I must be gay because a keeping a constant cohesive storyline isnt reason enough, amiright?

Well im not arguing if being gay is bad or if gays are bad, blah blah blah, if you gay, thats fine, My cousin who I love dearly is gay.  But , Shepard ISNT GAY, damn how many times and reasons should I have to give to get that through your thick noggin.

[lovgreno]

Bisexualism was a rather practical sollution in DA2. It might be a bit akward if all old LIs suddenly decides to have it both ways in ME3. I can see Kaidan and Ashley go bi though.

[Siansonea]

Naltair wrote...

Anders is pretty heterosexual in Awakening, the turn around in DA2 was odd. But Anders is almost a different person in DA2 anyways, for a number of reasons.

His character is fairly inconsistent, intentional or not.  To be honest he might as well have been a totally new character he is almost nothing like he was Awakenings.

I never played Awakenings, but Anders wasn't even consistent within the confines of Dragon Age 2. I haven't played with him as an LI for a male character, but I have for a female, and I think his character consistency problems run deeper than just bisexuality, if that's even a factor at all.

[Naltair]

coolair74 wrote...

Actually Bi-sexual would not suffice since that implies 2 genders, what if there is another monosexual race? Or an asexual race that breed by sneezing out spores? Omni works a bit better.

Thing is , as ive stated 600 times, Shepard ISNT GAY. His character is not gay. In no way should that change now, even if you are gay, Shepard isnt, he isnt you , he is Shepard, strait man of liking the girls.

You do realize that Shepard can be one of two genders right?  You also realize that your Shepard is not the end all be all of all Shepards, right?

Modifié par Naltair, 22 mars 2011 - 05:15 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
*snip*

*snip*

1) Well, they don't come off as gay to me.

Well, that's hardly scientific. And way to stereotype there, dude.

How am I stereotyping?

I was asked whetther I thought they were heterosexual or not.

You can't really be that dense. You can't really think that homosexuals and bisexuals all have behavioral traits that allow you to determine their sexuality from a few conversations. You can't really think that, can you? When you say "they don't come off gay to me", you are saying that gay and bisexual people ALWAYS behave in a way that allows you to know that without them telling you. And I am telling you, that is simply not the case in the real world, no matter how finely-tuned you think your "gaydar" is. You will find this out for yourself soon enough, I'm sure.

Where I live, people who are gay aren't that hard to recognize. btw, I live in a CITY. I know it may not be that way for everyone, but quite a few aren't hard to recognize.

[Naltair]

mousestalker wrote...

Not one of my LI's in DA2 has been bisexual. They have all been exclusively interested in the sex my Hawke is. So what exactly is the problem?

Please explain this statement.

[UsagiVindaloo]

I'm still waiting for a rebuttal on the notion that a few of these characters could already be bisexual (or at least Shepard-sexual) but have been struggling with it and hiding it for a game or two. It's *completely* realistic as far as people go (I myself dithered over an attraction to my best female friend for the better part of three years before even getting the courage to subtly flirt) and it wouldn't really "change" the characters at all.

Not to mention that there IS such a thing as, for lack of a better word, "Shepard-sexual". There are plenty of people who are as straight as an arrow... except for that ONE person they fell for (and the same is true for gay people). If Garrus decided that he had a thing for Shepard, he would still be straight if that's how he self-identified... he'd just have a single exception to the rule. ;-)

[Almostfaceman]

Siansonea II wrote...

You can't really be that dense. You can't really think that homosexuals and bisexuals all have behavioral traits that allow you to determine their sexuality from a few conversations. You can't really think that, can you? When you say "they don't come off gay to me", you are saying that gay and bisexual people ALWAYS behave in a way that allows you to know that without them telling you. And I am telling you, that is simply not the case in the real world, no matter how finely-tuned you think your "gaydar" is. You will find this out for yourself soon enough, I'm sure.

First, this is a game.  It's not the real world.  "Few conversations" in the game = a relationship and friendship and romance.  So there is no attempt at realism here.

Second, the game clearly limits who you can and cannot romance.  For anyone not looking for a conspiracy, this clearly indicates that the character is straight.  If I'm a man, I cannot romance a man.  If I'm a woman, I cannot romance a woman.

Third, the game clearly defines who the squaddies are interested in through gender.  If you are a woman, Tali is not interested in you.  If you are a woman, Jack is not interested in you.  If you are a woman, Miranda is not interested in you.  And on and on and so forth.  

To expand on my first point - a game is limited in scope - it has to be - so brevity has to come into play at some point.  The game developers, through some very simple, brief, and limited encounters give us romance and friendship and all types of other drama.  The game sets up the expectation of "becoming friends" in about 6 or so conversations in ME1 and continues that tradition in ME2.  It also does the same for romance.

[coolair74]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Hating gays is also covered by the term homophobia. But let's not debate semantics, because let's face it, in the battle of wits, you're the unarmed man.

You think I'm a homophobe?

I don't know you that well Ramirez, I'm not trying to label you. And my response was actually intended for coolair74.

Well see ive already won. You have played the Homphobe card, I do not hate or fear gays. You have played that " You must be gay since you dont agree with my gay agenda".  I know conclusively that I perfer girls. I am so strait that I can color my GF's hair and do her nails and be completely fine with it. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Battle of wits indeed, you have no wit so the batle is mine.

[Siansonea]

coolair74 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Having one or two former acquaintances come up to Shepard and say "you know, I don't know if you'd be interested, but I've been thinking of you differently lately, and I don't know, I think I want to see where it goes."

Then Shepard says " Sorry but Im NOT GAY, get the hell back down to the forward batteries!"

Methinks thou dost protest too much. You have my sympathy, it must be hard to be in such an agitated emotional state about the possibility of gay content in a game. Thinkin' this subject hits a very sensitive nerve, and I can think of only one reason someone could be that sensitive about it...

Of course I must be gay because a keeping a constant cohesive storyline isnt reason enough, amiright?

Well im not arguing if being gay is bad or if gays are bad, blah blah blah, if you gay, thats fine, My cousin who I love dearly is gay.  But , Shepard ISNT GAY, damn how many times and reasons should I have to give to get that through your thick noggin.

As much as you want to hammer home the point that there is only ONE Shepard, you are simply wrong. This is a customizable character. You keep saying 'he' when you refer to Shepard, but Shepard can be female. Shepard can be any ethnicity, can have one of three very different backgrounds, can have one of three very different service records, and can behave in ways that run the gamut from saint to psychopath. And you're telling me that in all that variability, that sexual preference is the one binary that is immutable (for ManShep, at least)? That is preposterous. It makes no sense. No amount of macho posturing and throwing around flippant terms like 'buttsechs' is going to convince me that there is anything underpinning your argument than discomfort with the idea of homosexuality. If that makes me thick headed, I'll take that as a compliment.

[Naltair]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Not to mention that there IS such a thing as, for lack of a better word, "Shepard-sexual". There are plenty of people who are as straight as an arrow... except for that ONE person they fell for (and the same is true for gay people). If Garrus decided that he had a thing for Shepard, he would still be straight if that's how he self-identified... he'd just have a single exception to the rule. ;-)

I am pretty sure even if it is just an exception to act on said feelings and engage in sexual activity makes one at least bisexual, if not gay.

Modifié par Naltair, 22 mars 2011 - 05:22 .

[UsagiVindaloo]

@coolair: The problem with your assertion that Shepard isn't gay is that it's not true. Shepard is at least bisexual. We see Fem!Shep fool around with Kelly and fall in love with Liara... and while we can argue all day long about whether Liara is a woman, there is enough dialogue from Fem!Shep and Kaidan to indicate that they, at least, consider it a lesbian relationship.

But that's Fem!Shep, I hear you say?

Yes, but that's my point. Male Shepard and Female Shepard *are the same character* You cannot make one bisexual and one straight. Either they both are at least willing to experiment with both genders (as they've established FemShep can) or they only like the opposite gender (in which case the Kelly and Liara relationships for FemShep should never have existed).

So maybe Male Shepard isn't gay, but he is at least bisexual. To suggest otherwise would be to suggest that we must treat FemShep and MaleShep differently, which is wrong.

[coolair74]

Naltair wrote...

coolair74 wrote...

Actually Bi-sexual would not suffice since that implies 2 genders, what if there is another monosexual race? Or an asexual race that breed by sneezing out spores? Omni works a bit better.

Thing is , as ive stated 600 times, Shepard ISNT GAY. His character is not gay. In no way should that change now, even if you are gay, Shepard isnt, he isnt you , he is Shepard, strait man of liking the girls.

You do realize that Shepard can be one of two genders right?  You also realize that your Shepard is not the end all be all of all Shepards, right?

I was referring to the Male Version, and again, ill have to explain it, its not my Shepard, its not your Shepard, its just Shepard, he is a character you play, like if you were an actor and you have to play a character that is strait. Niel Patrick Harris is gay, but he plays a guy isnt gay on TV. She my point?

[Siansonea]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
*snip*

*snip*

1) Well, they don't come off as gay to me.

Well, that's hardly scientific. And way to stereotype there, dude.

How am I stereotyping?

I was asked whetther I thought they were heterosexual or not.

You can't really be that dense. You can't really think that homosexuals and bisexuals all have behavioral traits that allow you to determine their sexuality from a few conversations. You can't really think that, can you? When you say "they don't come off gay to me", you are saying that gay and bisexual people ALWAYS behave in a way that allows you to know that without them telling you. And I am telling you, that is simply not the case in the real world, no matter how finely-tuned you think your "gaydar" is. You will find this out for yourself soon enough, I'm sure.

Where I live, people who are gay aren't that hard to recognize. btw, I live in a CITY. I know it may not be that way for everyone, but quite a few aren't hard to recognize.

So, you think you've seen them ALL? There's no chance that some people you don't get that 'vibe' from could be gay without you knowing it? You really think you're THAT perceptive? I have to say, I think you're wrong on this one. Sure, there are plenty of people who wear their sexuality on their sleeve, but if you think those people comprise the totality of homosexual or bisexual persons in your community, you are mistaken, plain and simple.

[mousestalker]

Naltair wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Not one of my LI's in DA2 has been bisexual. They have all been exclusively interested in the sex my Hawke is. So what exactly is the problem?

Please explain this statement.

Which part needs explaining? Since I don't indulge in multiple partners' romps in computer games, all of my romances have been monogamous. All of my LI's have remained faithful to their Hawke/Warden/Shepard. Why should someone else's gameplay bother me in the slightest? If you want to mod your Shepard to misbehave in certain ways, feel free.

If you don't like same sex relationships, only court LI's of the opposite sex. If you don't like hetereosexual relationships, only court LI's of the same sex. Either way, why should it effect anyone else?

[Naltair]

The bottom line is that female on female action is much more acceptable to the target audience then male on male action.

[UsagiVindaloo]

Naltair wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Not to mention that there IS such a thing as, for lack of a better word, "Shepard-sexual". There are plenty of people who are as straight as an arrow... except for that ONE person they fell for (and the same is true for gay people). If Garrus decided that he had a thing for Shepard, he would still be straight if that's how he self-identified... he'd just have a single exception to the rule. ;-)

I am pretty sure even if it is just an exception to act on said feelings and engage in sexual activity makes one at least bisexual, if not gay.

Not necessarily. Self-identification does trump all else. If a lesbian has a relationship with a man, but when prompted always says, "I am a lesbian," then she's a lesbian. If I have a relationship with a woman but identify as straight, then it's a sign of respect and courtesy to accept that identification and accept me as straight. The point is, we can't go running up to people and say, "You have done X or not done Y, therefore you are no longer allowed to be Z."

[Siansonea]

coolair74 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Hating gays is also covered by the term homophobia. But let's not debate semantics, because let's face it, in the battle of wits, you're the unarmed man.

You think I'm a homophobe?

I don't know you that well Ramirez, I'm not trying to label you. And my response was actually intended for coolair74.

Well see ive already won. You have played the Homphobe card, I do not hate or fear gays. You have played that " You must be gay since you dont agree with my gay agenda".  I know conclusively that I perfer girls. I am so strait that I can color my GF's hair and do her nails and be completely fine with it. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Battle of wits indeed, you have no wit so the batle is mine.

If it's a victory for you, it's a Pyrrhic one. You have lost much, much more than you think you've won, of that I am certain. Have fun brah, but don't be surprised if your cherished assumptions are proven false by circumstances.

[vimpel]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

I made this thread because I was a little worried after DA2 (my opinion only)

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a homophobe. This is just how I feel. This is not homophobic. Anybody who calls me one is just as bad as the ones who ARE anti gay.

Why? For the following reasons:

1. It cheapens the romances.
2. The romances lose their uniqueness (kind of like 1, but whatever)
3. It's unrealistic. Not everyone in life is bisexual. (it's a game, sure, but ME should be one of the realistic kind)
4. If it happened, there would be arguments over whether Manshep or Femshep is better with x character.
5. DA2 tried this, but if you ask me, it didn't feel as good as the ME romances.
6. It's a bit late to make them bi in ME3. ME1 was released in 2007 or something. If they were going to be bi, it should have been then.
7. Wouldn't it be awkward if the LIs were just suddenly bi? It would seem like it was done just to appease people (which is LAME)

EDIT:
8. If at least ONE person that could have been bi, it should have been Jack (my opinion)

So do you agree with me? Do you disagree?


Discuss.

It has been discussed before.... I STAy ON THE BRIGHT SIDE!