Aller au contenu

Photo

Can someone explain the appeal of the partially insane/chaotic stupid Merrill?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
422 réponses à ce sujet

#401
Addai

Addai
  • Members
  • 25 848 messages

Thomas Andresen wrote...

If this thread proves anything, it's how well BioWare conveyed the "cultural rift" between Dalish and human society.

The Dalish don't differentiate spirits and demons, period. During one of her exchanges with Anders, she actually explained why, and I quite agree. In fact, I think Anders is far worse off, since he is actually possessed, while Merrill has only made a deal with a spirit. The Keeper didn't disapprove of Merrill's exchange with the spirit because she made a deal, but because she saw the spirit's intentions. The first time Merrill interacted with the spirit, it was when the Keeper sought it out.
 

The demon helped her cleanse the mirror.  Not clear if it was that demon or another, but I had assumed it was that one.

It doesn't show any cultural rift IMO.  If anything, Merrill is acting very un-Dalish by going against her whole clan and her mentor.  She also knows that the demon is dangerous, likewise humans don't differentiate that much between spirits and demons either- which is why Wynne was afraid to reveal her condition.

#402
triviumisgodly

triviumisgodly
  • Members
  • 25 messages
I have not seen this many topics for any character except Merrill. To me that proves she is a fantastic character whether you like her or not. With Merrill I think you can only love or hate her. As for me personally she is my favorite character in the whole DA universe.

#403
SamFlagg

SamFlagg
  • Members
  • 688 messages
The appeal is because she's delightfully awkward. That and she convinces you to do things that you think "this is probably a bad idea, but she's so blasted sincere...."

#404
Grunk

Grunk
  • Members
  • 134 messages
Merrill was pretty stupid, but rather cautiously stupid. Had she failed, the only person that would've suffered is her.

The Keeper failed her obligation to the whole tribe. I mean, no matter how you play the blame game, if all the elves die, it's because the Keeper shirked her responsibility, not because Merrill is an idiot.

I guess you could say the ultimate folly is an idiot trying to save an idiot. Even if both had good intentions.

#405
Adynata

Adynata
  • Members
  • 479 messages
I liked her VA but beyond that she just frustrated me. I played the Dalish origin in DA:O, so I remembered Tamlin and the whole mirror thing. I never had an interest in getting that mirror up and running, and she was so nutty about it, accusing me of stealing her stupid Dalish tool. She was a female version of Anders, but since her dumb idea just wiped out a whole Dalish camp rather than a chantry we don't seem to have the same problem with it.

#406
Ingu

Ingu
  • Members
  • 199 messages

Curlain wrote...

Yeah I will say anyone taking advice from Vengeance-Anders alone in this game needs their heads examined, so Merrill was doing the right thing there :)


Eh, I don't see why you can't take advice from Anders. Since he IS an 'abomination' and is miserable, he of all people should understand why you 'shouldn't' consort with any form of fade spirit. Much less DEMONS. Image IPB

#407
Emperor Iaius I

Emperor Iaius I
  • Members
  • 1 158 messages
Just like the sloth demon tells you not to let the other two demons possess Feynriel, right?

#408
christrek1982

christrek1982
  • Members
  • 1 515 messages
why is evreyone getting hung up on the blood magic thng? so its bad and she pays for it in the end, A well done companion with some good development.

#409
Ingu

Ingu
  • Members
  • 199 messages

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Just like the sloth demon tells you not to let the other two demons possess Feynriel, right?


This wasn't directed at me right? O.o

...personally I didnt like Merrill much, she was too naive but too self-righteous too realise it despite everyone else (not to mention her own experiences with blood mages) screaming at her it'll only end in disaster. Cue disaster and 'it's not my fault is it?' Well yes Merrill, it is all your fault.Image IPB

#410
Gorthaur X

Gorthaur X
  • Members
  • 282 messages
I wonder if the people blaming Merrill for Marethari's actions also blame the elven children murdered by Magistrate Vanard's serial killing son.

They had no right to be so pretty, after all. They forced him.

#411
Edge2177

Edge2177
  • Members
  • 471 messages
I still feel that her repairing the mirror will have long term effects, possibly beneficial. She was *supposed* to fix it. There was a risk, and it's good she didn't finish because something bad would happen but it's a plot device, and it must be done!

#412
the_devils_aid

the_devils_aid
  • Members
  • 156 messages
@op I dont get it either. None of the female characters are as interesting as tali (who is mainly interesting only if you played ME1 and can see the evolution of the character.)

i found here annoying, with her anti-social skills thrust on the character. it not even realistic. and i agree she sounds as though she is trying to constantly re-assure herself it isnt a demon. overall, id say she is the least devoloped, most last minute character bioware has thrown at me so far. even sabastien is better, AND HE IS A DLC

#413
Brunzo

Brunzo
  • Members
  • 12 messages
You morons are putting me off this idiot game. I thought Bioware had already done that, but it seems not.

Vicious, Blood Mages are characters in a game. Turn off your computer and go for a walk once in a while. It's a game, it isn't real.

Anyway, what do you think Merril's appeal is? She's bouncy, busty, perky. Never mind the Blood Mage aspect, this lassy can fight. She puts Hawke warrior to shame.

Something else. Merril is as beautiful and perky as Isabella. What more do you need?

Why Vicious? YOu don't look vicious. You look silly.

#414
Bladescorpion

Bladescorpion
  • Members
  • 100 messages

Vicious wrote...

Seriously what's so great about this character? I really hate her [and I thought I would like her because I liked Tali. Turns out they are not even remotely similar]

Merrill must be partially insane or downright chaotic stupid. She repeats herself about Demons and how they aren't evil so often you'd think she was trying to assure herself. Meanwhile pretty much the entire party thinks she is an idiot. Anders says she has no idea what she's messing with, Aveline downright calls her stupid, Fenris calls her a monster.

She also gets mad at being questioned or having to explain herself. You know, kind of like how children act. She refuses to learn from her mistakes and thinks she always knows better than everyone else. Seriously, there's NO excuse. The warnings, danger, and risks with blood magic are COMMON KNOWLEDGE. Every Mage in Thedas knows they are bad news. 

But nope,  it's not an issue with Merrill. she thinks calling demons to help her is harmless, in fact downright insists on it. Repeatedly. Hell, there is one banter with Anders where Anders says, 'Look, you have to admit that some spirits CLEARLY are bent towards certain evil aspects. And Merrill's reply is basically 'no wai!'

And that is what beings me to insanity.

The definition of insanity is repeating an action and expecting a different outcome.
Merrll keeps practicing blood magic and consorting with demons and expects everything to work out fine.



So someone explain to me what the appeal of this retarded character is? 


And lastly even when I refuse to give her the tool to repair the Eluvian and get a whopping 175 rivalry points for it, her dialogue indicates I gave it her anyway. wtf.


Yeah, she creeps me out and is my least favorite character.  Seems to me she is a disturbed, rebellioius, anorexic, emo, blood obsessed, underage looking girl with authority/parent figure issues.  She even cuts herself in a cutscene.  I wonder if she posted that on myspace?

Though I will admit, she is an epically powerful with magic + con spec plus elemental, primal, and part of the spirit trees!

#415
Addai

Addai
  • Members
  • 25 848 messages

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Just like the sloth demon tells you not to let the other two demons possess Feynriel, right?

Isn't that rather obvious and no blinding insight?  He was just trying to sell himself as the "good guy".

#416
Addai

Addai
  • Members
  • 25 848 messages

Gorthaur X wrote...

I wonder if the people blaming Merrill for Marethari's actions also blame the elven children murdered by Magistrate Vanard's serial killing son.

They had no right to be so pretty, after all. They forced him.

<_<  Not remotely comparable.  Merrill knew she was courting disaster.  From the moment you meet her she's hiding her trinket, insisting "I know what I'm doing and you can't stop me anyway" and "it won't hurt anyone, really it won't" at every turn.

Modifié par Addai67, 25 mars 2011 - 05:33 .


#417
Joy Divison

Joy Divison
  • Members
  • 1 837 messages

Addai67 wrote...

It doesn't show any cultural rift IMO.  If anything, Merrill is acting very un-Dalish by going against her whole clan and her mentor.  She also knows that the demon is dangerous, likewise humans don't differentiate that much between spirits and demons either- which is why Wynne was afraid to reveal her condition.


Anders and human lore would disagree.  As Anders says, Demons can be clearly definied according to the sins they embody and are fundamentally different from spirits who do not resent the Maker for abondoning them.

I suspect Wynee was afraid to reveal her condition bc/ the self-righteous whiney B@tch would have been branded an abomination and disposed saving my Gray Warden the trouble of doing it herself when doing the Circle quest.

#418
Addai

Addai
  • Members
  • 25 848 messages

Joy Divison wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

It doesn't show any cultural rift IMO.  If anything, Merrill is acting very un-Dalish by going against her whole clan and her mentor.  She also knows that the demon is dangerous, likewise humans don't differentiate that much between spirits and demons either- which is why Wynne was afraid to reveal her condition.


Anders and human lore would disagree.  As Anders says, Demons can be clearly definied according to the sins they embody and are fundamentally different from spirits who do not resent the Maker for abondoning them.

I suspect Wynee was afraid to reveal her condition bc/ the self-righteous whiney B@tch would have been branded an abomination and disposed saving my Gray Warden the trouble of doing it herself when doing the Circle quest.

Well, exactly.  In practice humans don't distinguish between spirits and demons, either.

#419
Emperor Iaius I

Emperor Iaius I
  • Members
  • 1 158 messages
When it comes to possession? Sure. But Merrill's not possessed. For all this nonsense about how everybody else in the universe knows better, remember that Anders is possessed and remember that Marethari is possessed.

"Scoreboard," in other words.

#420
Esbatty

Esbatty
  • Members
  • 3 760 messages
Well one thing thats appealing is that neither Male Hawke nor Merrill is a Grey Warden prone to the Taint's low fertility rate, and thus she at some point could quite possibly give birth to one or more Elf-blooded Shemlen who have a good chance of becoming Mages. And I find that an awesome outcome of the Hawke-Merrill romance in the world-state they find themselves in. Without a Circle, Hawke is livin' Anders' dream.

#421
dlone2

dlone2
  • Members
  • 4 messages
She fits right in with my male rouge that literally did not side with either Templars or Mages until the very end. Everyone in my party loved me, with the exception of Isabella because I kept calling her out on ****.

If you want to have a funny exchange, flirt with Anders for a couple options then switch over to romancing Merrill. Travel everywhere with Merrill eventually in Act 3 Anders asks if you could ever truly love a dangerous blood mage like her. Hilarious cat fight happens between the two, with Merrill basically telling Anders to back off or she'll scratch his eyes out.

Towards the end Aveline and her have a conversation, after she is banished form the clan and they survive,

M - "i'm with Hawke"
A - "of course you are but what does it mean?"
M - " it means I am with Hawke....it reassures me"

her conversations with Verric are pretty good too, especially the ones in lowtown about the twine and on the way to the final battle where she asks Verric how does the story end?

#422
Sherbet Lemon

Sherbet Lemon
  • Members
  • 724 messages

Thomas Andresen wrote...

If this thread proves anything, it's how well BioWare conveyed the "cultural rift" between Dalish and human society.


Yeah. This.
Anywho, I know I'm late to the party,  but I totally missed this thread somehow. :?

I just want to address this because I think that as much I as I adore Merrill (I seriously enjoyed ALL of the companions this time around and found them all to be delightfully complex), she was wrong, so very wrong.

I've seen a lot of folks pointing fingers at Marethari, but I'm going to stick up for her a little bit.  I don't see the Keeper as blameless in the situation but Merrill should have known better. The key to understanding why Marethari chose to "protect" Merrill comes from understanding the role the youth play in Dalish culture.  The Dalish origin was my favorite in DA:O and when Mahariel finally comes to consciousness, Hahren Paivel rips into Mahariel for endangering the future of the clan.  To paraphrase, he essentially claims that, "you just don't belong to yourself (he calls her dahlen), you belong to the clan."  The Dalish are trying to preserve their past, and essentially preserve a cultural that is in essence, dying.  It would make sense then that Marethari would sacrifice all to save Merrill.  She sees Merrill as the future of the clan.

The second (and more obvious) bit is that Marethari is a bit like a mother to Merrill and I'm sure that Marethari was simply trying to protect her "child" from a dangerous end.  I don't doubt any mother who wouldn't sacrifice her life to save her child which make Fenarel's bitterness after the Pride's End scene extra telling.

It was pride that was Merrill's downfall


Pride and arrogance. 

Merrill: Are you alright?
Anders
: I nearly killed an innocent girl. How could I be alright?
Merrill
: I'm sorry.
Anders
: You're sorry? For me? This could be you! You could be the next monster threatening helpless girls!
Merrill
: Anders... There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was.
Merrill
: All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't.



This says to me that she realizes the dangers of what she's doing, but thinks that she can keep that damage relative to herself.  This is not case, and of course, this is the folly of hubris.  I see her statement as ironic not wise, and wrought with arrogance.  The key to phrase is "I understood that" prefacing the "I'm sorry you didn't."  She's reinforcing the notion that she knows better and thus the same end will not apply to her.

One more example and then I'm done.  Generally, I wish Hawke could rip Fenris a new one when he talks to Merrill as he's really at his worst when he talks to her (generally, I think it's because she has a "family" and left it all behind in order to embrace what he would consider the evil of blood magic and demons) but there is one time that her response is actually telling, and gives more insight into the sort of hubris and arrogance that is a flaw in Merrill's personality.

Merrill: You've probably never met a Dalish before, have you?
Fenris: I wouldn't know.
Merrill: I'm sure you'd be able to tell. Dalish aren't much like the elves in the cities.
Fenris: The smug sense of superiority does give you away.


The fact that she presses him about it later makes this all the more obvious.  My first playthrough (after we were rival friends), my mage Hawke essentially tells her to help the elves in the Alienage and Merrill admits that she hasn't been as open with them as she should.  I'm of the opinion that this is the best ending for her.

But this is one of the many reasons why I adore her.  She has wonderful sense of humor and a boatload of good intentions.  It's not that she's stupid or insane, it's more about arrogance and hubris, and the dangers of pride in her actions.  It's subsequent the consequences of her stubborn fixation with "saving her people" and by proxy her arrogance at being the self-sacrificing one to do it.

Okay.  Sorry for the exhaustive wall of text. <3

Modifié par Village Idiot, 26 mars 2011 - 08:03 .


#423
IRMcGhee

IRMcGhee
  • Members
  • 689 messages

Adynata wrote...

I liked her VA but beyond that she just frustrated me. I played the Dalish origin in DA:O, so I remembered Tamlin and the whole mirror thing. I never had an interest in getting that mirror up and running, and she was so nutty about it, accusing me of stealing her stupid Dalish tool. She was a female version of Anders, but since her dumb idea just wiped out a whole Dalish camp rather than a chantry we don't seem to have the same problem with it.


Not really a reply to this post as such, but I'd just like to note that it's possible for Merril's clan not to die.