56 réponses à ce sujet

[Lithuasil]

allankles wrote...


There was nothing fundamentaly evil or wrong about Orsino's personality or character, that's just bad story telling imo. We've just defeated a spirited attack by a squad of Templars then all of a sudden he's a hulking mass of monster.

Him going hulk during the final act makes sense. It's a fault of those who hamhandedly implemented it, not of the story writers themselves. Blame where it's due

[TheBlackBaron]

The Angry One wrote...

This is why I think Mass Effect is their best work to date, you actually
make critical decision that alter how the game ends, and you get to
talk even "boss" characters out of doing stupid things.

Shepard: "You suck, and should die."
Saren: "You're right. I suck and should die." 

Hey, some people just have a natural CHA mod of twenty (yes, mod of twenty, not stat). 

[Hoogies123]

Sooooo does anyone know why Orsino turned into the Golem from Amgarrak? The harvester?

This game is really flawed in its own lore and story telling. How sad.

[The Angry One]

Him going Superbomination even with Hawke's support just makes no sense at all.
If he's backed into a corner, okay. But if there are other ways out of it then he's just proving the Templars right.

As for Kirkwall, it's seems increasingly stupid to me that, given there has been research done on it, why the Circle wasn't simply moved from there.
Even if you don't know exactly what is making mages crazy, you obviously know SOMETHING is. Just get the hell out of there!

[Curlain]

Hoogies123 wrote...

Sooooo does anyone know why Orsino turned into the Golem from Amgarrak? The harvester?

This game is really flawed in its own lore and story telling. How sad.

For the lulz is the best I can think of

[Weaverjho]

Yeah, I really regretted helping Orsino on my rogue run.
On my mage run I'm siding with the Templars.
Personally I wish you could just kill them both.
Meredith is crazy because of her sister, Orsino aided the man who used necromancy and slaughtered your mother.

[The Angry One]

Curlain wrote...

Hoogies123 wrote...

Sooooo does anyone know why Orsino turned into the Golem from Amgarrak? The harvester?

This game is really flawed in its own lore and story telling. How sad.

For the lulz is the best I can think of

BioWare Writer: "Alright, and here Orsino turns into some sort of super abomination/demon/really big evil thing."

BioWare Designer: "Right, let's get to designing this new monster with careful precision!"

EA Suit: "Game is released in a week."

BioWare Designer: "But we can't.."

EA Suit: "Oh trying to be smart huh? YOU NOW HAVE 4 DAYS!"

BioWare Designer: "Wait we..!"

EA Suit: "TWO DAYS! Want to keep it up?!"

BioWare Designer: "Oh well just throw in an updated Harvester."

[Kapsejs]

Hoogies123 wrote...

Sooooo does anyone know why Orsino turned into the Golem from Amgarrak? The harvester?

This game is really flawed in its own lore and story telling. How sad.

I second this. Orsino feeling trapped in a corner and using blood magic in a last desperate attempt to wreak as much havoc over the templars as possible = makes sense.
Orsino turning into a giant meat blob = makes less sense.

It just felt... well, a bit silly. He could have used blood magic to... well, I don't know... re-animate the dead mages around him or something. Him turning into a harvester just took away credability points from what migtht have been an awesome boss fight.

EDIT: ..or a super abomination/ demon/ really big evil thing, as The Angry One points out

Modifié par Kapsejs, 22 mars 2011 - 08:05 .

[The Angry One]

Aside from what you can consider lazy design, the concept of the Superbomination comes out of the conceit that there must be an epic boss fight at the end, and "regular" npcs aren't considered for that.
Same thing happened in Mass Effect 2, a non-sensical, misplaced end boss that only exists because it's big and does flashy stuff.

The Archdemon in DA:O was different because while being the archetypal giant end dragon, it was built up to the whole game.

Modifié par The Angry One, 22 mars 2011 - 08:08 .

[TheBlackBaron]

I don't know why they couldn't have had him stay mostly normal in appearance and just started unleashing big cans of blood magic whoopass indiscriminately.

Making blood novae out of people would have been cooler and flashier than "now I'm a reused model from DA:O DLC, lulz", imo.

[allankles]

The Angry One wrote...

Aside from what you can consider lazy design, the concept of the Superbomination comes out of the conceit that there must be an epic boss fight at the end, and "regular" npcs aren't considered for that.
Same thing happened in Mass Effect 2, a non-sensical, misplaced end boss that only exists because it's big and does flashy stuff.

The Archdemon in DA:O was different because while being the archetypal giant end dragon, it was built up to the whole game.

lol  I didn't mind the giant baby human reaper. It was kind of inconvenient given the timer on the bomb I just activated was ticking, but I guess it was the good kind of fan service. Always need the boss fight, although personally I don't think you need one in an RPG.

[Mykel54]

I would have liked to see Orsino summon several demons (like avernus in origins), including some big one (say a pride demon), then orsino could tell them to attack the templars but the demon kill him and now attack the mages as well. That would make sense and keep orsino still responsible for the act, without going harvester.

[FoxholeHunter]

After finishing the game twice I think siding with the templars makes more sense for the story.

Siding with the mages and then have Orsino turn on you doesnt make as much sense as to why he would do it compared to if the Champion was against him all along and so backed into the corner explanation and also finding out he was in on your mothers death made me want to kick his ass then!!

When you suddenly had to fight him after joining his side was just plain stupid and made little sense, why the hell do I have to fight him!! He should have helped me against Meridith and could have died in the battle (like she helps you against him in the Templar end)!!! Would have been a better end to the Mage story.

From now on every playthrough will be siding with the Templars I can assure you!!

[Camenae]

^
At least they bothered to actually give Meredith a reason for turning on you if you picked that side. And she's supposed to be crazy one.

[Tainan7509]

Yeah, Orsino turn against my Mighty Hawke. Big Mistake! Send him to hell with diablo and then i have to fight Meredith next. Both of them are crazy and stupid. I wish i could chop Meredith her head off and burn with Orsino's body together in the circle. Kirkwall has enough craziness.

[Baaleos]

Heck with all the design and plot abnormalities, they should have made it so that after Meredith is dead, Orsino crawls out of the back room, and fuses his body with hers, and then you get stomped by Gigantic Meri-Sino (Siamese Mage-Templar hybrid)

Meredith - I will Not Be Defeated!!!
Orsino - Here, lets bond and kill them together...
Meredith - hmmm, Ok?
<Insert Blood Splatter here>
Emerges the Giant Puff Pastry Giant, holding a Staff in one hand, and a Big Sword in another - Spouting Blood From face and oraphis'.

Reaches down, grabs Fenris,
<Hmmm.... Tastey Elf>
Fenris - You abomination.... I will kill yo.....
<Crunch Crunch Crunch>

[Kawamura]

FoxholeHunter wrote...

After finishing the game twice I think siding with the templars makes more sense for the story.

Siding with the mages and then have Orsino turn on you doesnt make as much sense as to why he would do it compared to if the Champion was against him all along and so backed into the corner explanation and also finding out he was in on your mothers death made me want to kick his ass then!!

When you suddenly had to fight him after joining his side was just plain stupid and made little sense, why the hell do I have to fight him!! He should have helped me against Meridith and could have died in the battle (like she helps you against him in the Templar end)!!! Would have been a better end to the Mage story.

From now on every playthrough will be siding with the Templars I can assure you!!

I thought it made sense. I mean, outside of gameplay reasons.

He's spent his whole life being treated awful for how he's been born: he's an elf and he's a mage. He's been trying to fix things but he's spent forever being told that he's going to turn to blood magic eventually. And that weighs on you. Not the, er, specifics of blood magic. But the day in, day out expectation that you will eventually prove yourself to be trash and awful.

He was in an emotional moment. He was seeing his mages, his only thing like family, being destroyed and I just think he snapped. Now, why he attacks you? Probably because he's not very much in his own mind at that moment.

It's not a good decision, but very few we make are when we're under distress.

[Kreid]

The Angry One wrote...

Curlain wrote...

Hoogies123 wrote...

Sooooo does anyone know why Orsino turned into the Golem from Amgarrak? The harvester?

This game is really flawed in its own lore and story telling. How sad.

For the lulz is the best I can think of

BioWare Writer: "Alright, and here Orsino turns into some sort of super abomination/demon/really big evil thing."

BioWare Designer: "Right, let's get to designing this new monster with careful precision!"

EA Suit: "Game is released in a week."

BioWare Designer: "But we can't.."

EA Suit: "Oh trying to be smart huh? YOU NOW HAVE 4 DAYS!"

BioWare Designer: "Wait we..!"

EA Suit: "TWO DAYS! Want to keep it up?!"

BioWare Designer: "Oh well just throw in an updated Harvester."

I think it's most like:

Bioware designer: "Ok, so we need to make a new deep roads sction to fit the Harvester, it was a t the destiny trailer and all."

EA suit: "Game is released in a week"

Bioware designer: "But, people are already expecting this, they are looking forward to this content!"

EA suit: "Oh! trying to be smart huh!? NOW YOU HAVE 4 DAYS!!"

Bioware designer: "But....that's just impo..."

EA suit: "TWO DAYS!! want to keep it up!?"

Bioware designer: WTF!? ok just slap a Harvester in there somewhere, like, in Orsino or something.

[Kartikeya]

Kawamura wrote...

FoxholeHunter wrote...

After finishing the game twice I think siding with the templars makes more sense for the story.

Siding with the mages and then have Orsino turn on you doesnt make as much sense as to why he would do it compared to if the Champion was against him all along and so backed into the corner explanation and also finding out he was in on your mothers death made me want to kick his ass then!!

When you suddenly had to fight him after joining his side was just plain stupid and made little sense, why the hell do I have to fight him!! He should have helped me against Meridith and could have died in the battle (like she helps you against him in the Templar end)!!! Would have been a better end to the Mage story.

From now on every playthrough will be siding with the Templars I can assure you!!

I thought it made sense. I mean, outside of gameplay reasons.

He's spent his whole life being treated awful for how he's been born: he's an elf and he's a mage. He's been trying to fix things but he's spent forever being told that he's going to turn to blood magic eventually. And that weighs on you. Not the, er, specifics of blood magic. But the day in, day out expectation that you will eventually prove yourself to be trash and awful.

He was in an emotional moment. He was seeing his mages, his only thing like family, being destroyed and I just think he snapped. Now, why he attacks you? Probably because he's not very much in his own mind at that moment.

It's not a good decision, but very few we make are when we're under distress.

This. At the moment he does that, he has completely despaired. He has just seen all the mages that stayed behind and didn't run, the people he has grown up with and are the closest thing to family he has ever known, effortlessly and mercilessly slaughtered. Remember how he reacts when the Qunari have killed all the mages he brought with him? Sure, Hawke's party holds the line, but Orsino knows exactly how many templars are coming. He has no reason to believe there is any hope whatsoever, and at that moment it seems, to him, that not only is all hope of surviving lost, but no one will ever know or ever care what happened to him, the people he cared about, or the Champion who has apparently chosen to sacrifice herself to try and protect him. He is convinced everyone is going to die and it will all be for nothing, which is why he lashes out in one last moment of emotional anger with 'if she wants blood magic, I'll SHOW her blood magic'.

I'm not entirely sure the harvester-ish monster was exactly what he was intending. There's a moment where it looks exactly like he's just animating the dead, and then his eyes go crazy and the harvester happens. Whether he meant that or not though doesn't really matter. He's not thinking clearly and he's in the very depths of utter despair.

Even if he was a willing participant in the murder of Hawke's mother (and he wasn't), that doesn't mean every mage in the Free Marches should get killed because of it. I find myself recoiling at the notion that you can push someone to the very edge and then point at what they do in their desperation as proof that you were right to push them all along. Give the nicest, most even tempered dog a good few kicks and eventually you're going to get bitten. Is that proof the dog was secretly vicious all along?

[R-F]

The first time through the game I didn't realize it was him that was helping the serial killer. I supported the mages in that run and it didn't make sense that he went all super abomination. When he admits it and you can confront him by siding with the Templars though, that felt like sweet justice.

I definitely stopped feeling bad for him after I found out about his help with the killer.

[stormrain]

How Not To Win An Argument

Orsino does it best.

Modifié par Captain Uccisore, 23 mars 2011 - 01:39 .