84 réponses à ce sujet

[eno detah]

Luke Barrett wrote...

There are a VERY large number of fixes in this patch. We've addressed everything we could - most people will be happy their issue has been fixed, unfortunately (as usual) some people will still scream obscenities for ignoring them (though the reason a fix may not be included is always more complicated than that).
The ETA is 'soon' - I can tell you for sure it will not be this week (ending Mar27th) aside from that there is nothing close to concrete enough to give you any more information.

Luke, the thing that's still missing that would support/complement the above statement is a comprehensive list of issues known to/recognized by Bioware, and, the prioritized order in which Bioware intends to address them  (caveated by the fact that the prod dev process is imperfect). The existing lists I've seen stickied in this and other sub-forums is, to be kind, incomplete from a user/customer perspective, which creates a lot of uncertainty.

Separately, I really appreciate this follow-up note; not necessarily the content (which is still insufficient to assuage my concerns), but at least the thought and spirit behind it. Thank you.

[prazision]

terrordactyl1 wrote...
You've changed your tune. Didn't you spend weeks on the Mass Effect PS3 tech forum telling everyone that they were imagining the freezes?? No longer a Bioware fan then :-)

No, all I kept saying is that the freezing/save corruption issues with ME2 were happening to a small percentage of players, which is within the parameters of modern-day games having glitches.

The issues that need patching with DA2 are things that apply to literally everyone playing it.  Isabela/Sebastien's friendship bug happens to EVERYONE.  Goad and Armistice are abilities that simply do not work, at all, for anyone who owns the game.  These are things that point to incredibly bad play-testing.  It's one thing to ship a game with a bug that's hard to replicate; it's ENTIRELY different to ship a game with multiple bugs that are easy to replicate because they apply to EVERYONE.

Seriously, did none of the playtesters ever think to use Goad or Armistice and make sure they worked?  Wouldn't "use every talent/spell and make sure they work" be one of the first things you would test - as well as being pretty easy to test?  "Hm, I just used Goad and nothing happened.  We should probably fix that."  Same thing with Maker's Sigh.

The only logical conclusion is that they knew the bugs were there but had to rush the game out the door to meet a deadline.  Obviously nobody from BW will ever confirm this (legally they probably can't) but it's obviously true.

As long as Isabela/Sebastien, Goad/Armistice, and Maker's Sigh are fixed, I'm fine with it.  The quest bugs can be worked around as long as you're aware of them.  Core game mechanics cannot (yes, I know there is a convoluted way to "fix" Isabela's bug, but I shouldn't have to jump through hoops to make a game work properly).

Sidebar: Stop saying New Vegas is "unplayable", that is an outright lie.  I've played the game to completion 3 times on PS3 and have only had a couple freezing issues - less freezing than I had with Origins on PS3, even after all the patches ("Ultimate Edition?  Yeah right.")

[Dragoonlordz]

Your right in that when a patch does come out you may receive some slight flame thrower action your way but only if the things in the patch you fix are the tiny issues and not the major ones like save game corruption's/freezes/major companion glitches etc. But if you only fix the small ones and not the big ones you couldn't expect any other result surely like fixed item description, not fixed freezing / fixed glow effect on x sword, not fixed save game corruption. Then yes, flame throwers will be out and fueled.

[sestrensaz]

I have to admit, I didn't notice I had the Isabela/Sebastian bug until today.  At first, when I noticed their buffs were still active when they weren't in the party, I just assumed it was a bug that kept them active when they shouldn't be - an unexpected benefit - rather than a game-breaking bizarre-o-world stacking minus speed and minus damage curse!

I can't fathom how this kind of bug can be left for this long without being patched since it seems to affect everyone who befriended Isabela and Sebastian. No, I don't expect a magic wand, but I do expect Bioware to put every person they have on it so as not to irreparably damage the reputation of their games. I know for sure I will never buy a Bioware game on release now - especially not a console version. I will simply wait until the first major patch is released, then go pick it up on the cheap. Is this the kind of reputation you want? Well, actually, there's no point asking since I think you already have it now, along with Bethesda.

I would have thought game breaking bugs like this, and lets be clear, it IS game breaking, would be addressed and patched to the exclusion of all others too. Then once the major bugs are fixed, then move onto the quest/dialogue/freezing glitches, is that not sensible? Instead we are having to wait weeks for a what sounds to be some sort of mega patch.

*sigh*

I am just really very disappointed that I can now no longer continue with the game until a patch is released... I had noticed my Hawke animations were strangely slow compared with companion characters, little did I know I had just played through the first 2 acts gimped.

So very disappointed in Bioware right now, not least because I genuinely love the game and think I might actually be enjoying it more than I enjoyed Origins.

Modifié par sestrensaz, 25 mars 2011 - 03:16 .

[Dragoonlordz]

sestrensaz wrote...

I have to admit, I didn't notice I had the Isabela/Sebastian bug until today.  At first, when I noticed their buffs were still active when they weren't in the party, I just assumed it was a bug that kept them active when they shouldn't be - an unexpected benefit - rather than a game-breaking bizarre-o-world stacking minus speed and minus damage curse!

I can't fathom how this kind of bug can be left for this long without being patched since it seems to affect everyone who befriended Isabela and Sebastian. No, I don't expect a magic wand, but I do expect Bioware to put every person they have on it so as not to irreparably damage the reputation of their games. I know for sure I will never buy a Bioware game on release now - especially not a console version. I will simply wait until the first major patch is released, then go pick it up on the cheap. Is this the kind of reputation you want? Well, actually, there's no point asking since I think you already have it now, along with Bethesda.

I would have thought game breaking bugs like this, and lets be clear, it IS game breaking, would be addressed and patched to the exclusion of all others too. Then once the major bugs are fixed, then move onto the quest/dialogue/freezing glitches, is that not sensible? Instead we are having to wait weeks for a what sounds to be some sort of mega patch.

*sigh*

I am just really very disappointed that I can now no longer continue with the game until a patch is released... I had noticed my Hawke animations were strangely slow compared with companion characters, little did I know I had just played through the first 2 acts gimped.

So very disappointed in Bioware right now, not least because I genuinely love the game and think I might actually be enjoying it more than I enjoyed Origins.

I think the biggest issue for me is the freezing one, I have this worry it will damage my console costing hundreds of £/$ with repeated forced hardware resets due to it not just freezes the game it freezes the console itself as opposed to replacing a £/$40-60 game.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 25 mars 2011 - 03:32 .

[sestrensaz]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
I think the biggest issue for me is the freezing one, I have this worry it will damage my console costing hundreds of £/$ with repeated forced hardware resets due to it not just freezes the game it freezes the console itself as opposed to replacing a £/$40-60 game.

Perhaps I am optimistic about it, but since freezes are due to software glitches not hardware, I don't imagine a freeze can damage the console physically.  I mean, if that was the case then Sony would have fixed their damn browser ages ago, I think I have had my console freeze using the BBC iPlayer more times than it has ever frozen playing games, and I've never noticed any ill effects.  As long as people don't turn the thing off by ripping out the plug or using the master switch on the back of the console you're fine... just hold your finger on the power button until the console beeps three times.  It resets as normal that way, even when the thing has frozen solid.

Admittedly, I might be being completely naive about it, but  I just don't think software freezes break consoles; like I don't imagine software freezing break PCs either.

But I get your point... my game has froze about 3 times in 60 hours of play time... which I think is negligable, but I understand other people's experiences are different, so hey... even if they did that first I would be all for it.  Rather than this extra long wait for a big mondo fix for loads of things at once.

EDIT: I also remember reading a lot of people found the freezes stopped if you logged out of the EA Servers/PSN while playing the game as it seems at least some of the problems related to freezing originates from being logged into the EA server.  Might be worth giving it a go, if freezing is your issue.

Modifié par sestrensaz, 25 mars 2011 - 04:49 .

[Echidnalexx]

Luke Barrett wrote...

MachDelta wrote...

People are too fickle for more detail. If Luke gave us a list of everything that was to be fixed and the exact hour it was supposed to be locked and shipped, and if even one of those things was scrapped or pushed back a day these forums would be filled with kiddies screaming about how they were lied to by the evil BW/EA conglomerate.

This is almost exactly what the problem is. Personally, I'd love to come out every day on a podium and tell everyone what we're working on and when our current estimate is for fixing these issues but unfortunately that is just not a feasible approach these days.

What I can do, and have been trying to, somewhat, is to come in and say 'Hey, we know you're all eagerly awaiting news and a patch and we're doing everything we can but we still don't have any news' - I know it seems like we're not communicating that enough but I can assure you if I came here every day and gave the same response it would feel extremely empty and it would be the same if not worse than just not saying anything. 

That said, I will give you some very vague information for now that will hopefully sate your collective appetites for now:

There are a VERY large number of fixes in this patch. We've addressed everything we could - most people will be happy their issue has been fixed, unfortunately (as usual) some people will still scream obscenities for ignoring them (though the reason a fix may not be included is always more complicated than that).
The ETA is 'soon' - I can tell you for sure it will not be this week (ending Mar27th) aside from that there is nothing close to concrete enough to give you any more information.

(nb. I was aiming for exaggeration and humour with my wizard comments:pinched:)

well, can you tell us what specific things are fixed? what about trophies?

[Echidnalexx]

prazision wrote...

terrordactyl1 wrote...
You've changed your tune. Didn't you spend weeks on the Mass Effect PS3 tech forum telling everyone that they were imagining the freezes?? No longer a Bioware fan then :-)

No, all I kept saying is that the freezing/save corruption issues with ME2 were happening to a small percentage of players, which is within the parameters of modern-day games having glitches.

The issues that need patching with DA2 are things that apply to literally everyone playing it.  Isabela/Sebastien's friendship bug happens to EVERYONE.  Goad and Armistice are abilities that simply do not work, at all, for anyone who owns the game.  These are things that point to incredibly bad play-testing.  It's one thing to ship a game with a bug that's hard to replicate; it's ENTIRELY different to ship a game with multiple bugs that are easy to replicate because they apply to EVERYONE.

Seriously, did none of the playtesters ever think to use Goad or Armistice and make sure they worked?  Wouldn't "use every talent/spell and make sure they work" be one of the first things you would test - as well as being pretty easy to test?  "Hm, I just used Goad and nothing happened.  We should probably fix that."  Same thing with Maker's Sigh.

The only logical conclusion is that they knew the bugs were there but had to rush the game out the door to meet a deadline.  Obviously nobody from BW will ever confirm this (legally they probably can't) but it's obviously true.

As long as Isabela/Sebastien, Goad/Armistice, and Maker's Sigh are fixed, I'm fine with it.  The quest bugs can be worked around as long as you're aware of them.  Core game mechanics cannot (yes, I know there is a convoluted way to "fix" Isabela's bug, but I shouldn't have to jump through hoops to make a game work properly).

Sidebar: Stop saying New Vegas is "unplayable", that is an outright lie.  I've played the game to completion 3 times on PS3 and have only had a couple freezing issues - less freezing than I had with Origins on PS3, even after all the patches ("Ultimate Edition?  Yeah right.")

what's wrong with the makers sigh? works perfectly fine for me.

[prazision]

Echidnalexx wrote...

what's wrong with the makers sigh? works perfectly fine for me.

If you re-spec when a character has passive skills that give bonuses, those bonuses become negatives.  They get deducted from the base stat, similar to the Isabela/Sebastien problem.  Most people wouldn't notice because there isn't anywhere in the character screen that lists passive abilities like "+10% Spirit damage" or whatever.

[Rockpopple]

Epic patch is bound to be epic.

[eno detah]

prazision wrote...

Echidnalexx wrote...

what's wrong with the makers sigh? works perfectly fine for me.

If you re-spec when a character has passive skills that give bonuses, those bonuses become negatives.  They get deducted from the base stat, similar to the Isabela/Sebastien problem.  Most people wouldn't notice because there isn't anywhere in the character screen that lists passive abilities like "+10% Spirit damage" or whatever.

Interesting; hadn't heard that bit. Just know that if you use Maker's Sigh and have anything wieldable in inventory you end up with getting a full refund of your skill credits, but, after reloading a save, your char will have all of their original (pre using Maker's Sigh) abilities too.

[veryalien]

prazision wrote...

Echidnalexx wrote...

what's wrong with the makers sigh? works perfectly fine for me.

If you re-spec when a character has passive skills that give bonuses, those bonuses become negatives.  They get deducted from the base stat, similar to the Isabela/Sebastien problem.  Most people wouldn't notice because there isn't anywhere in the character screen that lists passive abilities like "+10% Spirit damage" or whatever.

How has this been confirmed on the PS3? I've used maker's sigh about 3-4 times now :\\

[Stevie 402]

I will be happy with the no freezing and the companion/ makers sigh bonus bugs being fixed. I would like to do a playthrough where I could be nice to Isabela and Sebastion( which getting sebastion friendship seems very easy when doing his personal quests). Thanks to the Moderater/ dev for the update.

[prazision]

Stevie 402 wrote...

I will be happy with the no freezing and the companion/ makers sigh bonus bugs being fixed. I would like to do a playthrough where I could be nice to Isabela and Sebastion( which getting sebastion friendship seems very easy when doing his personal quests). Thanks to the Moderater/ dev for the update.

Going Rival with Sebastien seems to be nearly impossible, like going Rival with Varric.  All I did was his Act 2 and first Act 3 quests, and no matter what I did IN those quests, he gained enough points to be Friend Zone.

Kind of off-topic, but one of the few things I'm really disappointed with about the game is that the much-touted "friend/rival system" is heavily weighted toward making everyone your Friend.  The only character I've had luck getting Rival with is Fenris (though I imagine a Mage-hating playthrough could get Anders to Rival, which is a shame because I saw a YouTube video of one of his Rival Romance scenes, and it basically explains his entire character and redeems what he does that seems to make people hate him, and really should have been included in the main game, not in a romance most people won't even see).

As for Maker's Sigh, somebody did some tests to confirm the effects of it (by turning "Numbers On" and comparing damage values and doing some math).  Thankfully, you get enough Skill Points to make it not really necessary unless you want to completely change a character's focus (so far I've only used it to re-allocate Varric's point in Miasmic Flask, since I'm playing a Flask Rogue myself).

[Chainer3000]

Casper wrote...

prazision wrote...

Still no word on whether a patch is coming? Shameful. Maybe now people will stop making fun of Obsidian - at least New Vegas got patched very quickly.

...and it is still unplayable so I'd rather wait than have the so called "Bethesda/Obsidian patches of doom".

You are right, it is the 21st century, and this is the first game I have ever bought for my ps3 that simply would just not work for more then 5 minutes.  The disk was faulty.  Bioware's QA was garbage, if even existant.  There shdouldn't be a need to us to wait this long for even a rumor or crptic message of a possible patch - it should have been shipped working - not shipped riddled with holes and glitches.  We aren't talking 1 or t2 here, but dozens of GAME BREAKING glitches and freezes, along with a whole handful of minor glitches.  This was a job done by amatures or a company looking for a quick cash in- and that is apparent in how they have handled the whole situation with the gaming public.  Throughout my entire interatction with Bioware and EA customer support, not one time did they offer to exhange my copy, provide information about a patch "IN THE WORKS" or "IN THE PLANS", nor did they provide any useful information.  I gladly returned the game, opened, signature edition with all the keys used, to Amazon.  It took 5 days and I already have my money back and that horrible PS3 game gone.  There is no excuse for shipping a product in this shape, nor with how bioware and EA have been dealing with all these issues on a whole.  No more business from me on the console side - Bioware, take note that it is only because I love your games to death that I continue to support them on the PC.

[ArchAngel_009]

I'm starting to think that because games can later be fixed with a patch, they don't care about perfecting it or testing it beforehand and have the "we'll do it later" mentality. I've had more problems with games on my PS3 than i have with any previous system due to developers skipping steps, this game being the absolute worst yet. We paid full price for a functioning game that should be playable from beginning to end. We're not frustrated because the patch is taking too long to get to us, we're frustrated because there shouldn't have been a need for one this soon and this badly, and we don't feel like they are owning up to that mistake.

[eno detah]

Chainer3000 wrote...

I gladly returned the game, opened, signature edition with all the keys used, to Amazon.  It took 5 days and I already have my money back and that horrible PS3 game gone.  There is no excuse for shipping a product in this shape, nor with how bioware and EA have been dealing with all these issues on a whole.

1. I agree with you

2. Did you get pre-approval from Amazon in order to get a full refund on an opened game? If so, how did you arrange it (email, web chat with a rep, etc)? Or, did you just use their standard web site return feature?

Thanks!

[Venus-sama]

eno detah wrote...

Chainer3000 wrote...

I gladly returned the game, opened, signature edition with all the keys used, to Amazon.  It took 5 days and I already have my money back and that horrible PS3 game gone.  There is no excuse for shipping a product in this shape, nor with how bioware and EA have been dealing with all these issues on a whole.

1. I agree with you

2. Did you get pre-approval from Amazon in order to get a full refund on an opened game? If so, how did you arrange it (email, web chat with a rep, etc)? Or, did you just use their standard web site return feature?

Thanks!

 I personally had to return my NTSC version to get a PAL version so that my saved data will import (Though still waiting on the delivery, so hopiung that it'll actually work after all this fannying around). 
To return mine I simply used the normal return method from the "My account" screen and selected the game as being defective, which I think is a fair reason anyways.  
I listed the problems I was having in the box, selected refund, printed off the return label and bobs your uncle.

Got my money back no problem, which is probably the only good experience I've had concerning this game so far, and that's thanks to Amazon and not Bioware lol

[prazision]

It was my understanding that, in the US, there's actually a Federal law that prevents retailers from giving refunds for opened software. That's why I've been saying that EA themselves need to offer a refund option, at least a PSN store credit for people who bought Sebastien. I spoke with the PSN support staff (literally the nicest tech support line I have EVER called, they've helped me out a lot with previous issues) and they said they can't refund PSN store credit even for defective software.

[Oracle Thunder]

I feel really bad for the people who don't have internet enabled on their consoles. It should not be a requirement to have internet in order to play a $60-$70 game.

[TheAgarrar]

Modifié par TheAgarrar, 27 mars 2011 - 07:27 .

[TheAgarrar]

TheAgarrar wrote...

Luke Barrett wrote...

MachDelta wrote...

People are too fickle for more detail. If Luke gave us a list of everything that was to be fixed and the exact hour it was supposed to be locked and shipped, and if even one of those things was scrapped or pushed back a day these forums would be filled with kiddies screaming about how they were lied to by the evil BW/EA conglomerate.

This is almost exactly what the problem is. Personally, I'd love to come out every day on a podium and tell everyone what we're working on and when our current estimate is for fixing these issues but unfortunately that is just not a feasible approach these days.

What I can do, and have been trying to, somewhat, is to come in and say 'Hey, we know you're all eagerly awaiting news and a patch and we're doing everything we can but we still don't have any news' - I know it seems like we're not communicating that enough but I can assure you if I came here every day and gave the same response it would feel extremely empty and it would be the same if not worse than just not saying anything. 

That said, I will give you some very vague information for now that will hopefully sate your collective appetites for now:

There are a VERY large number of fixes in this patch. We've addressed everything we could - most people will be happy their issue has been fixed, unfortunately (as usual) some people will still scream obscenities for ignoring them (though the reason a fix may not be included is always more complicated than that).
The ETA is 'soon' - I can tell you for sure it will not be this week (ending Mar27th) aside from that there is nothing close to concrete enough to give you any more information.

(nb. I was aiming for exaggeration and humour with my wizard comments:pinched:)

First I would like to comend all of you by making such a great game, no one is coming harder than BW presently as far as RPGs are concerned.  I am a big fan of the responsive combat changes, no need to backtrack in that regard.  I would have preferred Fenris to have been a Rogue "but hey, I'm not picky" (Alistair)

I just wanted to point out a few problems that I have encountered in case you are not aware of them already.

1)  I know about the bugs with regards to Isabella and Sebastian. I avoid earning their friendship or rivalry completely but my Hawke's attack speed begins to lag after I complete the Night Terrors and Family Matters quests regardless of the companion bugs.

2)  After finishing the game I end up getting locked in Hawke's estate when I load my post campaign, the only other place that I can go is the Black Emporium.  I really hope that this is an issue that is being adressed and that I will be able to start a new game with everything that I aquired in my previous playthrough.

All in all, DA2 is a great game and Bioware is a developer that listens to its fanbase and appreciates their feedback.  Other companies would leave major game issues as is and not even bother to give us a chance to discuss any problems.

Hope to hear from you soon and Rogues run things. 

[TheAgarrar]

Sorry for putting up the same reply twice.

[Baaleos]

Luke Barrett wrote...

MachDelta wrote...

People are too fickle for more detail. If Luke gave us a list of everything that was to be fixed and the exact hour it was supposed to be locked and shipped, and if even one of those things was scrapped or pushed back a day these forums would be filled with kiddies screaming about how they were lied to by the evil BW/EA conglomerate.

This is almost exactly what the problem is. Personally, I'd love to come out every day on a podium and tell everyone what we're working on and when our current estimate is for fixing these issues but unfortunately that is just not a feasible approach these days.

What I can do, and have been trying to, somewhat, is to come in and say 'Hey, we know you're all eagerly awaiting news and a patch and we're doing everything we can but we still don't have any news' - I know it seems like we're not communicating that enough but I can assure you if I came here every day and gave the same response it would feel extremely empty and it would be the same if not worse than just not saying anything. 

That said, I will give you some very vague information for now that will hopefully sate your collective appetites for now:

There are a VERY large number of fixes in this patch. We've addressed everything we could - most people will be happy their issue has been fixed, unfortunately (as usual) some people will still scream obscenities for ignoring them (though the reason a fix may not be included is always more complicated than that).
The ETA is 'soon' - I can tell you for sure it will not be this week (ending Mar27th) aside from that there is nothing close to concrete enough to give you any more information.

(nb. I was aiming for exaggeration and humour with my wizard comments:pinched:)

So....
If we want to make new characters, and exploit the currect glitches and stuff on those toons, we need to do it this week rather than next week?

[Baaleos]

2)  After finishing the game I end up getting locked in Hawke's estate when I load my post campaign, the only other place that I can go is the Black Emporium.  I really hope that this is an issue that is being adressed and that I will be able to start a new game with everything that I aquired in my previous playthrough.

I agree, this is annoying, but I dont think its a bug.
Its just what they designed the game to be like.

You complete the game, you are now stuck in your house, while we wait for the next instalment/dlc.

I would love a new-game + feature, but I find it unlikely they will add such a feature, as it is a great leap from previous incarnations of DA.