276 réponses à ce sujet

[Aireoth]

Thats my question, we all know that this game has the following massive problems:

A) Enemies recycled/poping out of thin air.
Recycled Areas. 
C) Average plot : I will quantify this, by plot I mean the wholistic feeling of immersion, freedom to chose (and face consequences), reaction of characters in the world to you (and you to them) as well as your NPC companions stories, the plot was poor/average from bioware. This is better then most other developers, but we hold bioware to a higher standard, otherwise we might as well play Two Worlds.
D) Lack of Replay value : Tied to plot problems.
E) Lack of Polish: ie Lack of Finishers/Silly body explosions, under designed character models (darkspawn), under populated areas (city).

I am not going to touch on DAO, or how it differed and thus upset many of us. In reality the big problems are as above. What I don't get is peoples insistance that this game be defended, even upheld, as one of the greats from Bioware:blink:. Sure its fun compared to Two Worlds, but its a load of garbage compared to DAO, ME, ME2, KOTOR, BG, BG2. 

I for one will not, and cannot defend or excuse this game. I know the Short Dev Cycle is to blame, but its biowares fault for trying to reinvent the wheel within that short cycle, rather then reusing resources from DAO. My only option is to try and hold Bioware accountable, and hope they listen to a long time fan (I visited their HQ in Edmonton when they first opened). If I don't, I can't expect them to be any better then every other cookie cutter developer.

:EDIT: pulled from response below because it helps clarify

I understand you enjoy the plot, as I said, I didn't find it bad, just poor compaired to other bioware games. To clairfy, picking up and item and bam, a quest to deliver it. Also having no actual effect on the plot or ending based on my choices. That also leads to only one play thru.

C) You felt that your choices, actions and friendships shapped the game? and thus D you could replay it to experience a different game? I am not trying to hash out the 'big evil' vs 'rags to riches', but the actual effect you had on the world itself through choice and action (thus making it yours). Perhaps I said it wrong in my post.

E) Are you (and others) saying that the city didn't feel empty? That the exploding bodies didn't seem a bit.. .out of place at times?

I am trying to keep opinions out of this, but of course they do factor in, as 'I have no issues with A and B' thats an opinion, it doesn't change the fact that it breaks the realism of the game, you just chose to ignore it. What I'm saying is, why defend it? Do you want your games to be well, better? Can you really say that fixing A & B (which are my biggest problems) would break the game?

Modifié par Aireoth, 22 mars 2011 - 07:49 .

[Bakkerbaard]

Because Bioware has good credit in my book. KOTOR 1 and 2, ME 1 and 2, DAO. I've dabbled in Neverwinter Nights, but RPGs were too much work to get into back then (maybe the should have dumbed it down for me ), nevertheless I knew it was good stuff.
DA2 isn't a bad game, as far as I'm concerned. Not as good as it's predecessor, but I'm enjoying it. I get a slight urge to defend the game when othe rpeople come down really hard on it. Action-reaction, that's what it is, I think.

edit: Had I read beyond the initial question I could have said you make some good points though and we can agree that it's not the epic some people make it out to be.
I suppose the only thing in my reply that stands now is the very last Newtonian sentence.

Modifié par Bakkerbaard, 22 mars 2011 - 07:23 .

[upsettingshorts]

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but :

A) I noticed, it's not optimal, but I don't care that much. That there are waves in fights isn't something that bugs me, it's that they don't usually come from predictable or possible paths.
I noticed, it's not optimal, but I don't care that much. It was just as bad in ME1 and that is one of my favorite games ever, I didn't care too much then so I'm not sure why I'd care now.
C) I thought the story in DA2 is far superior to DAO. But then, I find the big bad villain (Darkspawn) the opposite of compelling, and hub locations that have nothing at all to do with each other not terribly interesting except in isolation.
D) This is entirely subjective. I won't be able to give a useful answer as to which game is more replayable until approximately two years from now, when I can tell you literally how many times I decided to fire up DA2 given the same timeframe.
E) Finishers and body explosions seem like a design decision and not having to do with rush. The Darkspawn is a design decision. Underpopulated areas seems like something done for hardware or engine reasons. I don't think it would take additional months of development to add a bunch of noninteractive peasants to the world, they just decided not to.

The reason people like me will defend it is, well, in my case, DA2 does specific things better than its predecessor - things I value more than the stuff it doesn't do so well. I'm also bothered when people describe their opinions as "the reality" or "the truth" or "the fact" and then list a series of subjective evaluations and value judgments.

In short, if I defend anything DA2 did it is because I want DA3 to be a better version of DA2 as opposed to a better version of DAO.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 22 mars 2011 - 07:24 .

[Alpr]

Why are people attacking DA2? Herp de derp.

The games fun. I don't care what they do as long as the core elements are there.

Modifié par Alpr, 22 mars 2011 - 07:22 .

[JabbaDaHutt30]

so far i enjoyed it a bit more than ME 1

[Giubba]

Aireoth wrote...

Thats my question, we all know that this game has the following massive problems:

A) Enemies recycled/poping out of thin air.
Recycled Areas.
C) Average plot : I will quantify this, by plot I mean the wholistic feeling of immersion, freedom to chose (and face consequences), reaction of characters in the world to you (and you to them) as well as your NPC companions stories, the plot was poor/average from bioware. This is better then most other developers, but we hold bioware to a higher standard, otherwise we might as well play Two Worlds.
D) Lack of Replay value : Tied to plot problems.
E) Lack of Polish: ie Lack of Finishers/Silly body explosions, under designed character models (darkspawn), under populated areas (city).

I am not going to touch on DAO, or how it differed and thus upset many of us. In reality the big problems are as above. What I don't get is peoples insistance that this game be defended, even upheld, as one of the greats from Bioware:blink:. Sure its fun compared to Two Worlds, but its a load of garbage compared to DAO, ME, ME2, KOTOR, BG, BG2. 

I for one will not, and cannot defend or excuse this game. I know the Short Dev Cycle is to blame, but its biowares fault for trying to reinvent the wheel within that short cycle, rather then reusing resources from DAO. My only option is to try and hold Bioware accountable, and hope they listen to a long time fan (I visited their HQ in Edmonton when they first opened). If I don't, I can't expect them to be any better then every other cookie cutter developer.

A)If with popping out of thin air you mean the costant mutiple waves of mobs in the 90% of the combat, than i agree .

B)Agree

C)Loved the story

D)Not for me

E)Same as D ( but there are atm a number of tedious bug )

You have listed only one point ( where no one will ever disagree with you, the rest is simply a list of what you didn't like in the game.

Modifié par Giubba1985, 22 mars 2011 - 07:24 .

[Icinix]

Because some people really do love it.

Just like some people really, really hate it.

What you see as problems, may not be problems for someone else. I say good on people on both sides for hopefully entering a good debate into it and hope we can all use it to sculpt games that are more appealing to everyone in the future.

[DarthKaldriss]

              Has it ever and I mean EVER occured to you that diferent people have different tastes eh ? This indeed may come as a shock to you but people do have different opinions. Mine is that I enjoyed the game immensely the majority of the companions where well thought out and better than some in DAO. The main storyline interested me and I enjoyed it, did'nt even see a couple of the plot twists coming.
                So I'm not even sorry you did'nt enjoy the game as I'm going to care about your opinion as much as you care about mine.............
           

[ginzaen]

Because some people still enjoy it even with it's flaws? i can spend £100 in a night out drinking so £25 for 35-40hrs play seems like a reasonable deal to me. plus not everyone agrees with your opinion? i enjoyed the story and the new combat.

[Alodar]

Aireoth wrote...

Thats my question, we all know that this game has the following massive problems:

A) Enemies recycled/poping out of thin air.
Recycled Areas. 
C) Average plot : I will quantify this, by plot I mean the wholistic feeling of immersion, freedom to chose (and face consequences), reaction of characters in the world to you (and you to them) as well as your NPC companions stories, the plot was poor/average from bioware. This is better then most other developers, but we hold bioware to a higher standard, otherwise we might as well play Two Worlds.
D) Lack of Replay value : Tied to plot problems.
E) Lack of Polish: ie Lack of Finishers/Silly body explosions, under designed character models (darkspawn), under populated areas (city).

I am not going to touch on DAO, or how it differed and thus upset many of us. In reality the big problems are as above. What I don't get is peoples insistance that this game be defended, even upheld, as one of the greats from Bioware:blink:. Sure its fun compared to Two Worlds, but its a load of garbage compared to DAO, ME, ME2, KOTOR, BG, BG2. 

I for one will not, and cannot defend or excuse this game. I know the Short Dev Cycle is to blame, but its biowares fault for trying to reinvent the wheel within that short cycle, rather then reusing resources from DAO. My only option is to try and hold Bioware accountable, and hope they listen to a long time fan (I visited their HQ in Edmonton when they first opened). If I don't, I can't expect them to be any better then every other cookie cutter developer.

Has it occurred to you that different people find different things important.

I honestly have no issues with A or B. They are really not important to me.

I like the plot. I'm relatively at the beginning of Act 3 but I find the plot quite refreshing. It's about politics and friendships as opposed to some big bad.

I also don't share your opinion on D and E.

While I applaud your passion, please understand that your opinions on the game are just opinions.
Different things are important to different people and what you see as a weakness other people see as a strength.

Alodar

[Corto81]

DAO was The Wire. The best TV show ever made, and quite possibly the best single player RPG ever made. Deep and immersive, with repeatability and multiple plot solution, where what you did matterred.

DA2 is Spartacus: Blood and Sand. Shallow, but visually attractive. Bad in almost every single way compared to The Wire but stupidly addictive.

Unfortunately, I'm on my 3rd playthrough, as there's nothing else out there. And I do find it mostly fun.

However, regardless of the limited time the devs had, some things are just awful.
Copy/pasted zones, lack of depth, lack of immersivness, most companions are ready for the looney bin in one way or another and show the maturity of 10-year olds, small world, the feel of a "fake" world and a "fake" city, ridiculously stupid endings to certain characters (Orsino).

Why do people defend it? No idea.
I think it's relatively fun.
I just think it's complete rubbish compared to DAO.

DAO was an RPG.
DA2 tries to make my toon into Nathan Drake or Ezio Auditore.
Which it shouldn't even be bothering with.

[vdeity]

The recycled areas and waves of enemies are the only part of DA2 that I don't particularly care for.
I enjoy the game well enough.
Right now my problem with it is the bugs, like the Isabela/Sebastian bug and some of the incorrect dialogue from my imported DAO save.
I'd like to see more in DA2. I'd happily buy more DLC and even expansions for DA2... just as long as they don't take place in The Wounded Coast or Sundermount.

[Oliver Sudden]

The people for whom the game was designed like it, maybe even like it a lot. There's a lot of them because EA and Bioware did their research, and some of them even show evidence of becoming defensive if the game gets attacked in any way.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Because you touch yourself at night.

[upsettingshorts]

Corto81 wrote...

DAO was The Wire. The best TV show ever made, and quite possibly the best single player RPG ever made. Deep and immersive, with repeatability and multiple plot solution, where what you did matterred.

As one of the biggest fans of The Wire on this planet, I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Corto81 wrote...

DA2 is Spartacus: Blood and Sand. Shallow, but visually attractive. Bad in almost every single way compared to The Wire but stupidly addictive.

As someone who turned off Spartacus after fifteen minutes, now I'm just appalled.  

Please refrain from using such comparisons again or I'll have to send you the medical bill for my colonoscopy.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 22 mars 2011 - 07:31 .

[bzombo]

Aireoth wrote...

Thats my question, we all know that this game has the following massive problems:

A) Enemies recycled/poping out of thin air.
Recycled Areas. 
C) Average plot : I will quantify this, by plot I mean the wholistic feeling of immersion, freedom to chose (and face consequences), reaction of characters in the world to you (and you to them) as well as your NPC companions stories, the plot was poor/average from bioware. This is better then most other developers, but we hold bioware to a higher standard, otherwise we might as well play Two Worlds.
D) Lack of Replay value : Tied to plot problems.
E) Lack of Polish: ie Lack of Finishers/Silly body explosions, under designed character models (darkspawn), under populated areas (city).

I am not going to touch on DAO, or how it differed and thus upset many of us. In reality the big problems are as above. What I don't get is peoples insistance that this game be defended, even upheld, as one of the greats from Bioware:blink:. Sure its fun compared to Two Worlds, but its a load of garbage compared to DAO, ME, ME2, KOTOR, BG, BG2. 

I for one will not, and cannot defend or excuse this game. I know the Short Dev Cycle is to blame, but its biowares fault for trying to reinvent the wheel within that short cycle, rather then reusing resources from DAO. My only option is to try and hold Bioware accountable, and hope they listen to a long time fan (I visited their HQ in Edmonton when they first opened). If I don't, I can't expect them to be any better then every other cookie cutter developer.

people probably defend it because it is a good game and those that dislike it have been so over the top that things need to be balanced out. listing what you don't like does not make it a universal truth. recycled areas is a problem a lot of people have. i don't particularly like it either, but everything else is even more subjective than the recycled areas. i don't mind enemy spawning during battle. i find it more tactical since you have to account for the possibility of more enemies showing up. i'm not the only one that thinks the plot is solid. many have posted that they're enjoying it. lack of replay value is on you. everyone has different standards for replay value. this is probably the most subjective of all your claims. i agree about lack of polish in some spots, but not to the extent you seem to claim.

overall, it is a good game that doesn't quite hit the standard origins set. this rubs many the wrong way, but in no way are your opinions automatically facts.

[SidheKate]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The reason people like me will defend it is, well, in my case, DA2 does specific things better than its predecessor - things I value more than the stuff it doesn't do so well. I'm also bothered when people describe their opinions as "the reality" or "the truth" or "the fact" and then list a series of subjective evaluations and value judgments.

In short, if I defend anything DA2 did it is because I want DA3 to be a better version of DA2 as opposed to a better version of DAO.

^ This. Some people liked it.  I'm one of them.  In the grand scheme of what I had to give up, I received far more out of the game because of the other sacrifices. E.g., I'd give up new maps in favor of more quests every day of the week.

[Veracruz]

Perfection does not exists no matter what. I like DA 2 despite the flaws (which is not the same as ignoring them) which "forces" me to position myself on the defender side.

Fun with my purchased product > everything else
*shrug*

[Swordfishtrombone]

Out of the OP's list, recycled areas is the only thing that really bothers me.

As to enemies popping from thin air, I've mentioned this before, but here goes again:

It seems to me that people want 1) Big battles, and 2) Smooth graphics with no lag. The probem is that those two are usually mutually exclusive, unless you've got a really top of the line system. In DA:O, for example, in the largest battles, people complained of severe lag issues.

The enemies popping out of thin air, in waves, is a compromize - it allows big battles, without clogging down the system by requiring ALL the enemies to be on the battlefield at the same time.

I am willing to excuse a little lack of realism for a smooth experience with big battles.

It WOULD have been nice if, instead of popping in from thin air, enemies in the city, for example, ran into the battle field from the doorways of houses. But that's the only change I'd want to see to the system.

[Chaos_1001]

Aireoth wrote...

Thats my question, we all know that this game has the following massive problems:

A) Enemies recycled/poping out of thin air.
Recycled Areas. 
C) Average plot : I will quantify this, by plot I mean the wholistic feeling of immersion, freedom to chose (and face consequences), reaction of characters in the world to you (and you to them) as well as your NPC companions stories, the plot was poor/average from bioware. This is better then most other developers, but we hold bioware to a higher standard, otherwise we might as well play Two Worlds.
D) Lack of Replay value : Tied to plot problems.
E) Lack of Polish: ie Lack of Finishers/Silly body explosions, under designed character models (darkspawn), under populated areas (city).

I am not going to touch on DAO, or how it differed and thus upset many of us. In reality the big problems are as above. What I don't get is peoples insistance that this game be defended, even upheld, as one of the greats from Bioware:blink:. Sure its fun compared to Two Worlds, but its a load of garbage compared to DAO, ME, ME2, KOTOR, BG, BG2. 

I for one will not, and cannot defend or excuse this game. I know the Short Dev Cycle is to blame, but its biowares fault for trying to reinvent the wheel within that short cycle, rather then reusing resources from DAO. My only option is to try and hold Bioware accountable, and hope they listen to a long time fan (I visited their HQ in Edmonton when they first opened). If I don't, I can't expect them to be any better then every other cookie cutter developer.

It is not what is the term used in this situation.... "fanboism" but rather the honest and open minded opinions from both sides of the fence. For instance, most members of the community give a "bad with the good"  assessment. I will use myself as an example :

Dragon Age 2 Feedback

The Bad feedback first --

1. The game was not released 100% polished (which forced me to give the game a rating 9/10 instead of 10/10 )
2. Re-used maps, not the best idea to use in a high scale RPG with this much of a following, definatly a bad move
3. A few character ability bugs ( companions ) forces one to work around their playstyle which is a "major distraction"  in RPG's

The Good feedback --

1. A superb story that truly grips the player from beginning to end
2. A unique outlook that is outside-the-box when in terms of innovation and delivery of said story
3. Vastly improved combat , honestly keeps the player thinking and alert ( especially the harder modes of play )
4. Visually stunning and very well displayed , the animations and combat are very flowing and the cutscenes feel like a part of the story rather than the story exclusivley.
5. A fully voiced main character which is also fully integrated into the adventure / story so well that I personally actually felt my choices of character / playstyle/ archtype was not just playing the story but was apart of it. Nothing short of amazing on that one.
6. Being able to use your previous adventures in Origins to have a direct "influence" on your adventure was also a truly innovative idea.
7.The take your choices you make within the game's story seriously was a good move . I loved how you had to build up your "trust" within your group ( which did effect who you had in your party against a certain final encounter )
8. The romances were done very well, each character companion had a very distinctly different approach to said encounter with the main character. Just look at Sebastian and Isabella complete polar opposites as far as beliefs , morals and general presentation of their personal train-of-thought process.

the above was copied from a previous thread titled Feedback..

[xoxiin]

Hopefully DA2 will be BioWare's 'Vista':

- When released it was quite flawed.
- After a couple service packs (patches) it actually wasn't that bad.
- They listened to customer complaints and the next release was far better.

[Aireoth]

Alodar wrote...

Aireoth wrote...

Thats my question, we all know that this game has the following massive problems:

A) Enemies recycled/poping out of thin air.
Recycled Areas. 
C) Average plot : I will quantify this, by plot I mean the wholistic feeling of immersion, freedom to chose (and face consequences), reaction of characters in the world to you (and you to them) as well as your NPC companions stories, the plot was poor/average from bioware. This is better then most other developers, but we hold bioware to a higher standard, otherwise we might as well play Two Worlds.
D) Lack of Replay value : Tied to plot problems.
E) Lack of Polish: ie Lack of Finishers/Silly body explosions, under designed character models (darkspawn), under populated areas (city).

I am not going to touch on DAO, or how it differed and thus upset many of us. In reality the big problems are as above. What I don't get is peoples insistance that this game be defended, even upheld, as one of the greats from Bioware:blink:. Sure its fun compared to Two Worlds, but its a load of garbage compared to DAO, ME, ME2, KOTOR, BG, BG2. 

I for one will not, and cannot defend or excuse this game. I know the Short Dev Cycle is to blame, but its biowares fault for trying to reinvent the wheel within that short cycle, rather then reusing resources from DAO. My only option is to try and hold Bioware accountable, and hope they listen to a long time fan (I visited their HQ in Edmonton when they first opened). If I don't, I can't expect them to be any better then every other cookie cutter developer.

Has it occurred to you that different people find different things important.

I honestly have no issues with A or B. They are really not important to me.

I like the plot. I'm relatively at the beginning of Act 3 but I find the plot quite refreshing. It's about politics and friendships as opposed to some big bad.

I also don't share your opinion on D and E.

While I applaud your passion, please understand that your opinions on the game are just opinions.
Different things are important to different people and what you see as a weakness other people see as a strength.

Alodar

I understand you enjoy the plot, as I said, I didn't find it bad, just poor compaired to other bioware games. To clairfy, picking up and item and bam, a quest to deliver it. Also having no actual effect on the plot or ending based on my choices. That also leads to only one play thru.

C) You felt that your choices, actions and friendships shapped the game? and thus D you could replay it to experience a different game? I am not trying to hash out the 'big evil' vs 'rags to riches', but the actual effect you had on the world itself through choice and action (thus making it yours). Perhaps I said it wrong in my post.

E) Are you (and others) saying that the city didn't feel empty? That the exploding bodies didn't seem a bit.. .out of place at times?

I am trying to keep opinions out of this, but of course they do factor in, as 'I have no issues with A and B' thats an opinion, it doesn't change the fact that it breaks the realism of the game, you just chose to ignore it. What I'm saying is, why defend it? Do you want your games to be well, better? Can you really say that fixing A & B (which are my biggest problems) would break the game?

[Maverick827]

I don't defend DA2's shortcomings, I just don't agree that subjective issues can be unconditionally called shortcomings.

Though I do berate those who attack DA2's shortcomings in idiotic ways; I don't think that counts as defending the shortcomings themselves, however.

Modifié par Maverick827, 22 mars 2011 - 07:42 .

[orpheus333]

I'll bite but mostly because I agree with you.

The combat has deeper flaws than just recycled enemies and the pop in as new waves enter the battlefield. In increasing the speed at which combat operates DA2 forces a certain style of play where a high damage free for all is the norm. A lack of friendly fire on everything but nightmare is a symptom of this. Specific placement of characters, spells and bombs just isn't required anymore. Instead of implementing a faster combat engine and cross-class combos (which are stupidly trivial to do and only spike damage) DA2 should have focused on making enemies more reactive in combat and increased there skill choice and intelligence. Combat in an RPG like this should involve layers of depth that DA2 just doesn't have.

Recycled areas are inexcusable but it would have helped if the content inside them was more than stuffing. At the moment the areas are reused for low quality filler quests that probably shouldn't even be there.

The plot is pretty good. The execution is poor. Hawke as a character is OK there is plenty of room to manipulate his personality and change as events unfold. However these changes are only cosmetic no one notices if a change in approuch is made. I really enjoyed the families story as a whole and actually think this could have been brought into the plot and used a lot more than it was and would provide the champion with a motivation that is lacking throughout the game. It would have focused the plot and quests significantly more. When considering Laidlaws interview he wrote about gamers not likinga direct, big bad guy, motivation. This isn't the case and was a short sighted comment. Hawke simply lacks any real motivation and the Amell history along with Bethanys struggle with the templars and Carvers attitude in Kirkwall could have provided this. An opportunity missed IMO.

When it comes to replay value it has at least three play throughs for me but this won;t happen untill the bugs and performance issues are fixed.

When it comes to polish i consider the whole package and UI and menus play a significant role. The UI and menus are good it feels like a well designed product. Digging a little deeper and you have the issues with quests and bugs that shouldn't be present in a product at all. Computer game companies get away with far to much of this and they should be held accountable by the consumer. Video Game buyers, particulerly on the pc, need to get there right to a refund back as retailer policy. Not just the promise of patches in the future. Personally i think the exploding enemies and lack of finishers is another symptom of the combat changes and personally i would have liked to have seen multiple enemy finishers that are well animated rather than explosive bodies or the finishers from DA:O.

I do like DA2 and will defend it. Its not terrible but alot of people will throw their gauntlets in the ring to defend it at the drop of a hat.  

Modifié par andyr1986, 22 mars 2011 - 08:01 .

[cephasjames]

Aireoth wrote...

Thats my question, we all know that this game has the following massive problems:

A) Enemies recycled/poping out of thin air.
Recycled Areas. 
C) Average plot : I will quantify this, by plot I mean the wholistic feeling of immersion, freedom to chose (and face consequences), reaction of characters in the world to you (and you to them) as well as your NPC companions stories, the plot was poor/average from bioware. This is better then most other developers, but we hold bioware to a higher standard, otherwise we might as well play Two Worlds.
D) Lack of Replay value : Tied to plot problems.
E) Lack of Polish: ie Lack of Finishers/Silly body explosions, under designed character models (darkspawn), under populated areas (city).

I am not going to touch on DAO, or how it differed and thus upset many of us. In reality the big problems are as above. What I don't get is peoples insistance that this game be defended, even upheld, as one of the greats from Bioware:blink:. Sure its fun compared to Two Worlds, but its a load of garbage compared to DAO, ME, ME2, KOTOR, BG, BG2. 

I for one will not, and cannot defend or excuse this game. I know the Short Dev Cycle is to blame, but its biowares fault for trying to reinvent the wheel within that short cycle, rather then reusing resources from DAO. My only option is to try and hold Bioware accountable, and hope they listen to a long time fan (I visited their HQ in Edmonton when they first opened). If I don't, I can't expect them to be any better then every other cookie cutter developer.

The bolded hyperbole/opinion is why I defend the game. Some people act as if the rpg world is coming to an end because one company comes out with one subpar game (and by subpar I mean subpar by the really high standards that the fans seem to hold them up to). I think others have said this too, but BioWare has a very good track record. Therefore I think that people need to hold their hyberboles and simmer out a bit.