276 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

Anarya wrote...

It equally does not say "Become the all-powerful god of Thedas". It isn't a position that has no actual power, you just can't shape the world to your liking because you are just one player in a drama, not King Sh-t around whom the entire world revolves. It's not a false promise and I for one don't need to be ego-stroked constantly in every game to that extent. But maybe others do, and that's fine.

Lets just go back to this.

The way you play will write the story of how the world is changed forever. True or false ?

[Kail Ashton]

--Aireoth wrote...

Thats my question, we all know that this game has the following massive problems:

A) Enemies recycled/poping out of thin air.
Recycled Areas. 
C) Average plot : I will quantify this, by plot I mean the wholistic feeling of immersion, freedom to chose (and face consequences), reaction of characters in the world to you (and you to them) as well as your NPC companions stories, the plot was poor/average from bioware. This is better then most other developers, but we hold bioware to a higher standard, otherwise we might as well play Two Worlds.
D) Lack of Replay value : Tied to plot problems.
E) Lack of Polish: ie Lack of Finishers/Silly body explosions, under designed character models (darkspawn), under populated areas (city).
------------------------------------------------------------------

First off, you are not everyone, you barely qualify as an individual, you do not speak for everyone nor do you ever assume you may say what the majority census is about anything

A) not much worse than any bioware game, as for pop ups, who cares? it's a video game not a real life historical reinactment, do you go to plays and complain how the actors apear from behind the curtains? "but...but...he didn't come threw a door!? how is this possible! derp!"
recycled dungeons, yes
C) that is your opinion, to which ii've seen better ones, but regardless
D) if you went into this thinking they'd remake the game based on every choice you are more naive & foolish than i thought or you're simply so unimaginative that you've simply played the same way, the same choices every single time (assuming you've even replayed the game at all)
E) so incredibly wrong i suspect you've been playing origins and mistook it for dragon age 2

You and this list of "complaints" are a complete waste of time, a troll looking for forum attention is all i'd consider you, but congrats on geting mine for the 4 minutes it took to sum up this nonsense of yours

Modifié par Kail Ashton, 23 mars 2011 - 11:19 .

[Andraste_Reborn]

I, for one, defend the game because the things I liked about it far outweighed the things I didn't. I found the story and combat superior to those in the first game. (Which I also loved.)

[Sean]

I loved DAO completely and same with DA2

I also really like the referances to the Warden in DAO

but what I always hated in DAO was the combat and the reused areas


so in DA2 they have fixed the combat but just not the reused area issue, but thats fine and tolerable.

[Anarya]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Anarya wrote...

It equally does not say "Become the all-powerful god of Thedas". It isn't a position that has no actual power, you just can't shape the world to your liking because you are just one player in a drama, not King Sh-t around whom the entire world revolves. It's not a false promise and I for one don't need to be ego-stroked constantly in every game to that extent. But maybe others do, and that's fine.

Lets just go back to this.

The way you play will write the story of how the world is changed forever. True or false ?

Go back to what? I never said anything about that particular slogan and I'm not defending the marketing department in general. I have many complaints about the marketing of Bioware games but that's not really the point of this thread. I would say that that particular statement is misleading, sure. It doesn't make DA2 a bad game with a bad story.

So to reiterate, in DA2 you DO rise to a position of power. You DO NOT direct the events of the story.

Modifié par Anarya, 23 mars 2011 - 11:25 .

[AkiKishi]

Anarya wrote...
Go back to what? I never said anything about that particular slogan and I'm not defending the marketing department in general. I have many complaints about the marketing of Bioware games but that's not really the point of this thread. I would say that that particular statement is misleading, sure. It doesn't make DA2 a bad game with a bad story.

So to reiterate, in DA2 you DO rise to a position of power. You DO NOT direct the events of the story.

You are told that you rise to a position of power. You are shown that you are powerless.

[EmsaFallkin]

On the other side, I'm one of those who simply dislike the story and I can't stand the people who say that it is a "fact" that the story is good. I don't like it. There is one point in particular in the game that completely ruins the game for me, and I end up with a really dissapointed feeling for the rest of game.

And I see people who defend the game explain the shortcomings with things like " I don't care about that" or "I can live with that" or "I look past it and see the good things" etc etc. That's even worse than all the complaints.

You are customers! You are allowed to have opinions, you should have opinions. And you definitly shouldn't be "satisfied" or ignore flaws. That just makes you sound like an easy to appease consumerist. And neither should you think that the way you see the game or it's parts is a "fact" for anyone but yourself, as shown by the fact that I'm one of the few people who ended up not liking the story, I liked MOST of the story, but when one major plot quest ruins the whole game for me, I'm not going to just "look past the bad and see the good". I'll complain. With good reason. Because I'm a customer.

[Icinix]

Everyone has likes and dislikes...so defending some of what they like helps cast a vote towards keeping that part of the next game the same...even if it doesn't count...I'd rather say something in the hope it can have an impact..they say nothing and maybe lose a chance to change direction..

Regardless.. I'll defend the combat, I'll defend the overall story, I won't defend the lack of choice and consequence and I certainly won't defend that poor excuse for an end boss...

..but I'll also defend peoples right to speak out or defend what they wish...

[Anarya]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Anarya wrote...
Go back to what? I never said anything about that particular slogan and I'm not defending the marketing department in general. I have many complaints about the marketing of Bioware games but that's not really the point of this thread. I would say that that particular statement is misleading, sure. It doesn't make DA2 a bad game with a bad story.

So to reiterate, in DA2 you DO rise to a position of power. You DO NOT direct the events of the story.

You are told that you rise to a position of power. You are shown that you are powerless.

I don't really see the point of arguing over this specific issue, but Hawke in the story is not powerless. As a player, you are powerless to stop the endgame events. In fact, the loss of player agency (or the illusion thereof) is one of my complaints about the game.

Like I said, it's a flawed game, just like Origins was, but it's a good game with a lot there to appreciate.

[upsettingshorts]

EmsaFallkin wrote...

On the other side, I'm one of those who simply dislike the story and I can't stand the people who say that it is a "fact" that the story is good. I don't like it.

That's a perfectly reasonable position.

EmsaFallkin wrote...

And I see people who defend the game explain the shortcomings with things like " I don't care about that" or "I can live with that" or "I look past it and see the good things" etc etc. That's even worse than all the complaints.

You are customers! You are allowed to have opinions, you should have
opinions. And you definitly shouldn't be "satisfied" or ignore flaws.

That's not quite what I mean when I say I don't care.    It'd be nice if it was better, but it isn't why I'm playing the game.

So I don't deny that such flaws exist - and different caves look exactly the same is a flaw - it's just one that doesn't significantly influence my enjoyment of the game.  

EmsaFallkin wrote...

And neither should you think that the way you see the game or it's parts is a "fact" for anyone but yourself, as shown by the fact that I'm one of the few people who ended up not liking the story, I liked MOST of the story, but when one major plot quest ruins the whole game for me, I'm not going to just "look past the bad and see the good". I'll complain. With good reason. Because I'm a customer.

Again, that's a reasonable position.  If people would consistently frame their objections to or support for features or the story, this forum would be a much better place.  As it stands though, it's mostly people claiming their positions are unassailable facts.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 23 mars 2011 - 11:43 .

[AkiKishi]

Anarya wrote...
I don't really see the point of arguing over this specific issue, but Hawke in the story is not powerless. As a player, you are powerless to stop the endgame events. In fact, the loss of player agency (or the illusion thereof) is one of my complaints about the game.

Like I said, it's a flawed game, just like Origins was, but it's a good game with a lot there to appreciate.

What does Hawkes power actually mean in game ?

Anyone who likes Origins for "mechanics" reasons should give FFXII a try.

[upsettingshorts]

BobSmith101 wrote...

What does Hawkes power actually mean in game ?

He picks the outcome of the first battle of a war he's ultimately powerless to prevent. 

[Anarya]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Anarya wrote...
I don't really see the point of arguing over this specific issue, but Hawke in the story is not powerless. As a player, you are powerless to stop the endgame events. In fact, the loss of player agency (or the illusion thereof) is one of my complaints about the game.

Like I said, it's a flawed game, just like Origins was, but it's a good game with a lot there to appreciate.

What does Hawkes power actually mean in game ?

Anyone who likes Origins for "mechanics" reasons should give FFXII a try.

I'm not sure what you're asking here. Being Champion means what Hawke says and does and who s/he supports has weight with the other prime players in Kirkwall. It does not translate into you, the player, being able to direct the events of the endgame.

[zthix]

Andrastee wrote...

I, for one, defend the game because the things I liked about it far outweighed the things I didn't. I found the story and combat superior to those in the first game. (Which I also loved.)

This

Every game has good and bad points, da2 has some bad bits such as the slightly grating recycled enviroments but on the whole its a really enjoyable experiance.

In reguards to the plot i defend it becase its good and probably the most adult rpg since Planecape Torment. DA2 has its origin in a different type RPG, the character isnt the great hero that saves the world alla Lord of the Rings, or DA:O, Mass Effect, Bauldur's Gate and so on.  The main character is the City of Kirkwall, not the Champion, instead of gearing up and fighting the mighty boss-demon to save the world, you live out life and events of the city and see the politics of the world cause its slow colapse. Its all about the politics rather than heroes. While this is all going on you as the Champion have the opertunity to affect outcomes of a situation that would be happening with or without you and dip into the lives of those around you as its occuring.

Can certainly see why people dont enjoy that kind of story as its all about the subtleties and there is a lot of appeal in being the big shining hero, something i enjoy too, but given that every rpg that comes out follows a similar pattern of unrealised hero saves the world i find it really refreshing to play a game that focuses a lot more relisitcally on life in a fantasy world - not everyone can save the world every day and there are different types of hero.

[Anarya]

Nadia73 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The last thing that BW needs is defending or attacking. They are better off with people's true opinion. But no matter what you write you will be in the wrong camp anyway. If you defend BW you'll get the same amount of crap thrown at you as when you write about something you don't like in DA2. These forums are getting worse by the day.

Very true!

There are a lot of angry people out there and more surface every day with even more rage than the last. It can't all stem from the game.

I'm happy just playing and loving my DA II game, thank you.

I really think the rage has more to do with what DA2 symbolizes to some people than the merits of DA2 as its own game.

[AkiKishi]

Anarya wrote...
I'm not sure what you're asking here. Being Champion means what Hawke says and does and who s/he supports has weight with the other prime players in Kirkwall. It does not translate into you, the player, being able to direct the events of the endgame.

Well that's because finding that "item" in act 1 is the cause. It's not really a choice because it's scripted in.
I "supported" the mages, but I ended up killing them anyway because of scripted events.

[Chaos_1001]

I'll be breif on this.. A lot of people are passionate about their products and views. It is actually a good thing that , good or bad, they discuss these views. In short , everyone is entitled to a say in the matter.

[leeboi2]

It's a good game...That's why people defend it.

[ongnei]

this game is nice with tons of skill and the graphic...but I cant help to say it really suck at story and the recycle map...and theres oso millions of bugs....the letter I read didnt activate any quest when its suppose to...I just finish the game and I almost vomitted at the ending, Im back to DA:O....

[lobi]

I have been playing with different classes and different decisions and so far its very so so. Have reinstalled BG Boxset and cry self to sleep.

[zthix]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Well that's because finding that "item" in act 1 is the cause. It's not really a choice because it's scripted in.
I "supported" the mages, but I ended up killing them anyway because of scripted events.

To tell a story there has to be some degree of scripted events otherwise you dont go anywhere. Even looking at more open world games, events occur to progress the story line, all be it games like Oblivion and the Elder Scrolls series give you a lot more freedom on when and where that occurs.

Reading through all these posts it seems the arugments tend to go towards "This game is not what i wanted" rather than Dragon Age 2 being bad - DA2 (and indeed DA:O) is a story, like a book that can interact with rather than a play as you feel game.

Modifié par zthix, 23 mars 2011 - 12:09 .

[AkiKishi]

zthix wrote...
To tell a story there has to be some degree of scripted events otherwise you dont go anywhere. Even looking at more open world games, events occur to progress the story line, all be it games like Oblivion and the Elder Scrolls series give you a lot more freedom on when and where that occurs.

Reading through all these posts it seems the arugments tend to go towards "This game is not what i wanted" rather than Dragon Age 2 being bad - DA2 (and indeed DA:O) is a story, like a book that can interact with rather than a play as you feel game.

Yes, but there is a difference between a degree and totality of scripting deciding the outcome.

It's more like this is not the game you told us we were buying/advertised.



To me it's the difference between accepting the shortcomings and defending them as some how good things. I like Alpha Protocol , but it's a flawed game and I accept that. I don't try to convince others that it is not.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 23 mars 2011 - 12:15 .

[Anarya]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Anarya wrote...
I'm not sure what you're asking here. Being Champion means what Hawke says and does and who s/he supports has weight with the other prime players in Kirkwall. It does not translate into you, the player, being able to direct the events of the endgame.

Well that's because finding that "item" in act 1 is the cause. It's not really a choice because it's scripted in.
I "supported" the mages, but I ended up killing them anyway because of scripted events.

What the endgame choice determines is how Hawke is seen by the rest of the world, since this is a major, major earth-shaking event in Thedas. Origins' events were equally scripted, but it allowed you choices that mainly affected which NPCs show up in certain places and what epilogue cards you get. That said, does it *feel* like you have more agency in Origins? I would say yes overall. DA2 could have let you affect the outcome of sidequests (Merrill's personal quests, for example) more than it did and I think it would have improved the illusion. Something to consider for future games I suppose.