141 réponses à ce sujet

[wulfsturm]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Better question: Why is Leliana working for the Divine, instead of slaughtering Darkspawn with my Aeducan in Orzammar?

Wait, hold up, I just got a new item in my Inventory. Oh, neat, a snowglobe! And it has an inscription....

"LELIANA NEVER LOVED YOU."

......... .............

Probably because it was revealed in the end that the Warden had gone missing, as well as the Champion.

That's my understanding anyway.

[Magicman10893]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

In some people's games.

And in this person's game she was killed and he imported it. I made Alistair king and he returned as the king, but in people's games where he became a wondering drunk he appeared in the Hanged Man drinking and complaining. The game should respect these decisions.

This is one decision that in the scope of the Origins game is actually quite insignificant.

Considering her involvement with the Seekers trying to find Hawke and the Hero of Ferelden to try and prevent an all out war across the entire world between Mages and Templars (and to a furhter extent, the Chantry itself), I'd say her life is pretty important. Although they could take the route of Wrex and have her replaced by her distant cousin to fill the exact same role, only ****ier than before.

It's an explanation after-the-fact, not a retcon. There's a subtle distinctin.

It still seems like a retcon to me when someone goes from being dead to being alive and well with little to no explaination or acknowledgement to previous events, like how the Quanari somehow have horns now.

Indeed, but again, this choice is rather insignificant.

As far as we know it seems to be a pretty significant thing if she is involved with the Seekers trying to find Hawke and the Hero of Ferelden to stop a war between Templars and Mages all throughought the world. Although that information could change in the next game just like how a beheading can change into absolutely nothing lol.

[The Angry One]

wulfsturm wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Better question: Why is Leliana working for the Divine, instead of slaughtering Darkspawn with my Aeducan in Orzammar?

Wait, hold up, I just got a new item in my Inventory. Oh, neat, a snowglobe! And it has an inscription....

"LELIANA NEVER LOVED YOU."

......... .............

Probably because it was revealed in the end that the Warden had gone missing, as well as the Champion.

That's my understanding anyway.

The Warden doesn't go missing until a little after the events of Act 3.
So ha! She never loved you!

[Mykel54]

I imagine that when i killed Shale in the deep roads while preserving the anvil, she somehow will find a way back to the surface to crush pidgeons and make a cameo again. I would find that disappointing but something tells me that is what is going to happen.

[Wulfram]

wulfsturm wrote...

Probably because it was revealed in the end that the Warden had gone missing, as well as the Champion.

That's my understanding anyway.

Warden isn't missing when Leliana is in Kirkwall, since Alistair's wife is expected to meet him in Denerim.

(I felt a bit sorry for King Alistair, since he turned up after Hawke met a whole bunch of his wife's lovers)

[Chrumpek]

Well it's still bad because. In one of my saves she was killed yet she is alive. In other save she was hardened and she dropped the chantry and it's ways while falling in love with my warden forever.

In both cases leliana appears as a chantry high ranked something so yea great.

[JamieCOTC]

Because Dragon Age 2 is a perfect staring point for the franchise.

[Wulfram]

Chrumpek wrote...

Well it's still bad because. In one of my saves she was killed yet she is alive. In other save she was hardened and she dropped the chantry and it's ways while falling in love with my warden forever.

In both cases leliana appears as a chantry high ranked something so yea great.

Hardened Leliana doesn't drop the chantry.  If anything, she becomes a bit less heretical than she is unhardened.

[mesmerizedish]

Magicman10893 wrote...

And in this person's game she was killed and he imported it. I made Alistair king and he returned as the king, but in people's games where he became a wondering drunk he appeared in the Hanged Man drinking and complaining. The game should respect these decisions.

The game respects some decisions. It doesn't respect others. Suck it up.

Considering her involvement with the Seekers trying to find Hawke and the Hero of Ferelden to try and prevent an all out war across the entire world between Mages and Templars (and to a furhter extent, the Chantry itself), I'd say her life is pretty important. Although they could take the route of Wrex and have her replaced by her distant cousin to fill the exact same role, only ****ier than before.

As I said, the choice to kill her is insignificant within the scope of the Origins game.

It still seems like a retcon to me when someone goes from being dead to being alive and well with little to no explaination or acknowledgement to previous events, like how the Quanari somehow have horns now.

Qunari horns are also not a retcon. I'm not sure you know what a retcon is.

[The Angry One]

Wulfram wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

Probably because it was revealed in the end that the Warden had gone missing, as well as the Champion.

That's my understanding anyway.

Warden isn't missing when Leliana is in Kirkwall, since Alistair's wife is expected to meet him in Denerim.

(I felt a bit sorry for King Alistair, since he turned up after Hawke met a whole bunch of his wife's lovers)

Hey I for one let Alistair share

Modifié par The Angry One, 22 mars 2011 - 11:24 .

[TJPags]

Cuthlan wrote...

You played DA:O incorrectly.

Sorry.

This.
 
Yes, it's one character, and yes, it's a somewhat insignificant death, and no, most people probably didn't do it the first time around.
 
But Dragon Age is supposed to be about choice.  Origins was all about choices.  So was Awakening.  DA2 was marketed as allowing you to import your choices, your world state, from prior games.  But you can't actually do that with every choice.
 
Is it Biowares right to do this?  Sure.  Do people have to like it?  No, not at all.  It's perfectly okay not to like it.  And the fact that people don't like it shouldn't be ridiculed.
 
If she's that important to the story, fine.  If she was deemed unkillable by Bioware, they should have simply not given the option to kill her.  If that option was never there, I doubt anybody would be complaining "I defiled the ashes but didn't get to kill Leliana!!!".  They could have just made her leave the party, or given a major approval hit, or whatever.  But at some point, someone at Bioware decided it would be a good idea to have Leliana attack you if you defiled the ashes, and that making you kill her would be good for the game.  It's not like there was a "kill Leliana" mod.
 
This choice may, overall, have been taken by relatively few people, and may be insignificant in the long run.  I don't dispute either of those ideas.  But what if Zevran always alive becomes canon, or Nathanial always alive?  Or Alistair always king, or the DR done, or the Architect always alive, or . . . .you get the point.
 
Bioware can retcon whatever they like, and can justify it however they like (feign death, big bucket of ashes, magical lyrium room, maker loves her, whatever).  We don't have to like it, and those who don't like it can, and should, let Bioware know that.

[wulfsturm]

Wulfram wrote...

Warden isn't missing when Leliana is in Kirkwall, since Alistair's wife is expected to meet him in Denerim.

(I felt a bit sorry for King Alistair, since he turned up after Hawke met a whole bunch of his wife's lovers)

I can't quite remember, was it said that Leliana was part of the Seekers when you first meet her? I'm fairly sure she had differant armor.

And I like your name, I think we should be friends.

Modifié par wulfsturm, 22 mars 2011 - 11:28 .

[JamesX]

wulfsturm wrote...

I can't quite remember, was it said that Leliana was part of the Seekers when you first meet her? I'm fairly sure she had differant armor.

And I like your name, I think we should be friends.

She is the personal hand of the Divine, and is in disguise/plain cloth.  There is no reason to believe she is part of the seekers at that time.  Since she is presented as a secret agent beholden only to the Divine herself.

[Chrumpek]

So maybe leliana was the personal hand of the Divine form the start? Like from before origins, cause Divine knew about the blight coming and send leliana there to investigate etc. After all she knew ****loads of stories about the chantry etc when you talked to her and wanted to join you badly with all the maker made me take this path.

Hmmmm itneresting.

[KawaiiKatie]

The Angry One wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Better question: Why is Leliana working for the Divine, instead of slaughtering Darkspawn with my Aeducan in Orzammar?

Wait, hold up, I just got a new item in my Inventory. Oh, neat, a snowglobe! And it has an inscription....

"LELIANA NEVER LOVED YOU."

......... .............

Probably because it was revealed in the end that the Warden had gone missing, as well as the Champion.

That's my understanding anyway.

The Warden doesn't go missing until a little after the events of Act 3.
So ha! She never loved you!

Ugh, I can see it now...

Leliana: "I'm sorry, my love, but I just can't do the Maker's work down here in Orzammar."
Aeducan: "But... What about Brother Burkel? I let him open a Chantry! Centuries of dwarven tradition overturned because of my love for you!"
Leliana: "I knew this would get awkward. Here, have a snowglobe, and let's leave it at that."

Varric: "Two years later, the Warden disappeared. And no one seemed to know why..."

[Dr. Nexas]

Was there this many people upset when BG2 retconned stuff from the first game?

[Wulfram]

wulfsturm wrote...

I can't quite remember, was it said that Leliana was part of the Seekers when you first meet her? I'm fairly sure she had differant armor.

Yeah, there's no indication she's in the Seekers at that point.  But she is established to be spending her time doing missions rather than hanging around killing darkspawn or helping to liven up Ferelden's court

And I like your name, I think we should be friends.

[Kenshen]

Nimpe wrote...

Maybe Wynne revived her?

Well I have no idea why she would do it but Flemeth is someone that comes to mind that would step in and save her and have her make some kind of promise.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if this is the reason we get for her being alive.

[mesmerizedish]

Dr. Nexas wrote...

Was there this many people upset when BG2 retconned stuff from the first game?

NO BGII WAS THE BEST GAME EVAR IT IS PURFACT IN EVERY WAY SHUT UP *kills herself*

[The Angry One]

Dr. Nexas wrote...

Was there this many people upset when BG2 retconned stuff from the first game?

Yes, probably.

I know *I* was upset when they retconned the Vault Dweller into a male hippie who thought establishing a village in a radioactive wasteland with no technology at all was a good idea in Fallout. Actually that still makes me VERY VERY MAD! ME SMASH!

... I mean, whyever would we waste our time on such trivial things when the.. the um.. pandas are going extinct.

[The Angry One]

Filament wrote...

Dying is for ugly people.

Hawke: YOU TAKE THAT BACK!  Mother was beautiful!

[YohkoOhno]

To be honest, I think the sacred ashes adventure was a poor quality adventure they'd be more willing to retcon. At the time, maybe that was supposed to be a classic "Good vs. Evil" choice, but as you can see they are getting away from that. (There was really no good motivation to defile the ashes other than to "be a dick", it wasn't like the more nuanced choices in the other quests where you might have supported control of the golems or consider the elves the "evil party" involved. This particular adventure just had the warden defile the ashes just to be a jerk--maybe to get the reaver spec, but that seemed pretty false to me. That particular one I felt was the weakest of all the adventures).

[wulfsturm]

Filament wrote...

Dying is for ugly people.

And red shirted men. *Checks shirt* OK! Phew.

[Hawke Shephard]

I have a theory that she *may* have been resurrected by the mountain itself. I think it was said that there is a huge concentration of lyruim there and the ashes had to be getting their power from somewhere (unless the maker is real, which I kind of doubt) so maybe the exposure brought her back to life.

^Also to whoever talked about the Qunari horns, I'm pretty sure Sten mentioned that most are born with horns and those that aren't are ambassadors. 

Modifié par Hawke Shephard, 22 mars 2011 - 11:48 .