41 réponses à ce sujet

[Luke Barrett]

Hey everyone, I'm currently compiling a list of attributes/settings that contribute to difficulty scaling (either harder or easier) and am looking for ideas. This is my current list:

• Friendly Fire (0-100%) : Percent damage allies take from Area of Effect abilities
• Damage Scaling (50%-300%): Amount of Damage the Player and companions do to enemies
• Enemy Damage Scaling (50%-300%): Amount of Damage enemies do to the Player and companions
• Enemy Spell Immunity (0%-100%): Scales spell immunity from enemies being affected by all spell types to only one damage type hurting certain enemies (for instance)
• Knockdown Immunity Timer (0-6s): Determines how long users will be immune to knock[back/down] effects after being  hit by one.
• Potion Usage (On/Buff Only/Off): Determines which types of potions, if any, a player can use
• Potion Cooldown (0-360 seconds): Determines how long potions remain on cooldown after being used
• Ability Cooldown (50%-300%): Determines how long player abilities stay on cooldown
• Enemy Cooldown (50%-300%): Determines how long enemy abilities stay on cooldown
• Out-of-Combat Cooldown (0-100%): Determines how long abilities stay on cooldown if you are out of combat.
• Pause (On/Off): Determines whether a player can pause the action at any time during the game
• Out of Combat Health Regeneration (0-100%): Determines how fast HP is regenerated while out of combat.
• AI Tactics (On/Off): Determines whether AI tactics are locked or not [forcing users to play all companions]

Anyways, if you can think of anything else or have comments on these things let me know. Again, this is just a curiousity and DOES NOT reflect ANY plans for the franchise at present or in the future.

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 22 mars 2011 - 09:48 .

[nicodeemus327]

That's a pretty good list.

I'd add knockback, knockdown and interrupts from being damaged (and how fast they recover some such things).

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 22 mars 2011 - 08:53 .

[TG-Nalfen]

A big one you can add: (On/Off) Post combat regeneration/resurrections/cool down reset

[Andronic0s]

Yeah on Nightmare getting hit with a low fortitude character by an archer = death unless you can get someone else to stop the archer, maybe make it so there is a grace period where for an X number of seconds (number would be scalable from 0 to X) you are immune to knockback effects to avoid being locked to death

But to add something, Enemy AI tactics, harder diffculties should (imo) make the AI of my opponents more complex or "smart"

Modifié par Andronic0s, 22 mars 2011 - 09:06 .

[Wulfram]

AI Tactics (On/Off): Determines whether AI tactics are locked or not [forcing users to play all companions]

Is this intended to make the game more or less difficult?

[Toadbat]

I would say:
Boss hit points, I love 90% of nightmare mode, but the boss fights just get tedious.

Number of waves, I am ok with most of the fights, but have heard others suggest this.
On that note there is a nightmare mod post around somewhere. I'll look for the link, it has lot's of suggested changes you could latch on to.

On number 4, Enemy Spell Immunity, maybe just have a Magic Resistance scale. I think that would be easier, and not impact what creatures are currently immune, resistant, weak to.

Luke, I really like the idea of scalable difficulty. It allows me to play the game I want. Thanks for looking into it.

(edit):Here is that link:

http://social.biowar...-6644298-1.html

Modifié par Toadbat, 22 mars 2011 - 09:05 .

[LocutusX]

How about being able to control Encounter Scaling?

Without having access to the DA2 toolset I'm just speculating, but if a level designer sets up an encounter with a "target level of 7" the possibilities could be:

- unscaled. monsters will always spawn @ level 7

- scale up or down up to 50% to bring them closer to Players party level

- scale down only, not up

- scale up only, not down


Out of curiosity (and off-topic) but what is the DA2 policy on encounter scaling - it's not similar to Oblivion, right?
I mean, even DA:O had some issues with encounter scaling but so far in DA2 I haven't really noticed anything bad.

[Pyrilia]

 What I'd like to see for damage scaling are separate scales for normal attacks vs. special abilities. Specials should scale much higher because they are telegraphed abilities that the player can do something about. Normal attacks should be relatively flat especially with the DA2 model of long-cooldown heals -- when these scale too much it just makes fights into kitefests.

Specific example -- when you fight Orsino's harvester form, he will sometimes pick a random person and do a ranged blood-drain. You could interrupt this ability with a stun but there is no real reason to because it does very little damage, in fact it just takes some heat off your tank and you can drink a potion afterwards to heal right back up. If that special ability were scaled more steeply then doing the fight on a high difficulty level would require the player to take a quicker reactive role.

[Trapslick]

i'd actually like to see greater rewards with higher difficulty levels personally... give people a real reason to get through the game

to actually contribute
something that determines how often enemies will use special attacks
thier fortitude (i don't know if this would be solved by decreasing damage or not)

[Luke Barrett]

All enemies always scale with your (Hawke) level.

By AI tactics I meant your companions tactic slots. Turning them off completely would force you to actively play all 4 roles; coupled with no pause would make you learn to play very quickly.

As for enemy AI, I think the extent of this would be to have a setting for threat falloff and then just force all enemies to fight the weakest opponent (HP/Armor wise) unless there have X threat threshold - in any case this change would specifically require way more work than the other ones.

The reason I have Spell Immunity and not Resistance is because I already have an enemy damage mitigation on my list so that would be redundant (at least in my thinking of the system). Currently on Nightmare all enemies are immune to one elemental type - my thinking was the extreme difficulty would make all enemies only susceptible to 1 elemental type thus forcing you to spec your casters in different trees and bring the appropriate one for each section of the game.

Out-of-Combat health regen is a great one, I'll write that down. Resurrection may be a bit ridiculous for the first half of the game before you get rez and would likely caused some very undesired effects in cutscenes and plotflow unfortunately.

And, for the knockback one I actually have that on my list here on my desk but it somehow missed the jump from paper to interwebs! What my thought was on that would be a temp. immunity when hit with knock[back/down] for 0-6 seconds or something like that (this would be similar to how most MMOs handle crowd control immunity timers)

[Luke Barrett]

Trapslick wrote...

i'd actually like to see greater rewards with higher difficulty levels personally... give people a real reason to get through the game

My thought process behind this system would be a full GUI for all these options with a string on the bottom that has your Difficulty Rating. The higher the rating (based on what you select) the better the items in the game are and more affordable equipment is - given some of these settings would probably require a wider spectrum of weapon/armor types I suspect you would need to be compensated in some way to keep up.


(for those technically illiterate, a GUI [graphical user interface] is used in this context basically to imply a menu and the word 'string' is basically just a line of text for the purpose of this example)

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 22 mars 2011 - 09:31 .

[Trapslick]

Luke Barrett wrote...

My thought process behind this system would be a full GUI for all these options with a string on the bottom that has your Difficulty Rating. The higher the rating (based on what you select) the better the items in the game are and more affordable equipment is - given some of these settings would probably require a wider spectrum of weapon/armor types I suspect you would need to be compensated in some way to keep up.


(for those technically illiterate, a GUI [graphical user interface] is used in this context basically to imply a menu and the word 'string' is basically just a line of text for the purpose of this example)

that's a real solid idea, i'd like to something like this put into a game, i personally haven't seen it yet.

[Toadbat]

So, on the Spell Immunity thing, are you thinking of a blanket switch of easy through totally immune based on what natural immunities the creature type has? Or, actually setting what each creature is immune to and what they are weak to? The latter seems very complex, and would it allow for additional creature types? Such as from mods or new DLC.

I am also guessing that magic resistance is basically armor vs magic? So, your mitigation scale would effectively reduce the damage done by all sources, right?

I was thinking more along the lines of a percentage chance that any particular spell would fail, or in the case of AOE, provide temporary immunity to that damage/effects.

I love the better loot with increasing difficulty concept, but maybe have a choice there too. It's easy to get all Monty on us, but I sometimes enjoy the few really cool things found just because there so rare.

Thanks again for working on this aspect Luke!

[Cambios]

Good list.

A few from your list that I don't think should be difficulty based:

#5: Knockdown immunity - this isn't difficulty, this is annoyance. People want to be in control of their character. This should be at max and left there for players.

#8: Ability cooldown: Honestly, cooldowns are already SUPER high in the game. This shouldn't be increased in other difficulties. Same for enemies.

#11: Pause: This should always be part of the game, and not removed via difficulty.

#13: AI Tactics forcing users to play all companions: Wow. That sounds miserable.

A few I think should be added:

=> Mob spawn size: Slider for a larger number of mobs/enemies per spawn.

=> Number of elites per spawn: Slider for more elites and/or bosses.

The above would be very popular, because some people like longer fights against more enemies. Diablo's /players 8 option is a great example.

=> Random Encounter Frequency: More random encounters when going around at night or in the wildnerness.

[Luke Barrett]

Well luckily it would simply be a list of things you can individually modify so you would, theoretically, be able to add or remove whichever things you didnt like. Personally, I play without pausing and manually play all my characters because I find it to be a forced faster pace in combat. On the opposite end, I absolutely loathe chain disables of any kind for the same reason you stated so I would always keep that up at a reasonable amount.

All 3 of your suggestions are really good though so I'll put those down.

[Luke Barrett]

Toadbat wrote...

So, on the Spell Immunity thing, are you thinking of a blanket switch of easy through totally immune based on what natural immunities the creature type has? Or, actually setting what each creature is immune to and what they are weak to? The latter seems very complex, and would it allow for additional creature types? Such as from mods or new DLC.

I am also guessing that magic resistance is basically armor vs magic? So, your mitigation scale would effectively reduce the damage done by all sources, right?

I was thinking more along the lines of a percentage chance that any particular spell would fail, or in the case of AOE, provide temporary immunity to that damage/effects.

I love the better loot with increasing difficulty concept, but maybe have a choice there too. It's easy to get all Monty on us, but I sometimes enjoy the few really cool things found just because there so rare.

Thanks again for working on this aspect Luke!

If you've ever played Diablo II on Nightmare or Hell difficulty the bosses/elites gain more and more immunities to elements forcing you to to very maticulous and not focusing too heavily on one type of damage. That's what I have in my head.

Yes, magic resist, more or less, is armor vs. magic so the general mitigation scaling would take in to action after the damage is calculated. What you're suggesting is a fullout resist (which disables/debuffs currently have a chance to do).

The increased equipment doesnt necessarily have to be amazing. Sometimes you might just want a full suit of Fire Resist armor for a certain fight (High Dragon) or Spirit Resist when fighting shades. Other times you may want to stack +armor or +defense if the enemy hits very hard but really slow (and you dont have the worst luck ever like I do). The point is to allow the user the ability to have multiple sets of equipment for different situations/encounters - right now you're somewhat limited due to financial constraints and random drop factor.

[Toadbat]

Yeah, Luke, I get you. I like immunities because it forces me to change tactics, and to broaden my (or my mages) spec a bit, and carry different weapons. I do also like them to make a little sense too. Like fire immunity on Rage demons, or nature immunity on Undead. But, why are Mercenaries immune to Cold, or Raiders immune to Nature (not expecting an answer, it's off topic. Just wanted you to get a feel for what makes sense to me).

[Malanek]

Number of enemies in an encounter.
Type of enemies in an encounter.

[Sidney]

Luke Barrett wrote...

My thought process behind this system would be a full GUI for all these options with a string on the bottom that has your Difficulty Rating. The higher the rating (based on what you select) the better the items in the game are and more affordable equipment is - given some of these settings would probably require a wider spectrum of weapon/armor types I suspect you would need to be compensated in some way to keep up.


(for those technically illiterate, a GUI [graphical user interface] is used in this context basically to imply a menu and the word 'string' is basically just a line of text for the purpose of this example)

Not a fan of this idea. People pick the difficulty that works best for them - I've seen the "I soloed it on nightmare" types but I know plenty of folks who struggled with DAO on Normal - about 50% of the people who quit the game I know quit after the wolves with traps ambush for example. You can't assume that higher difficulty needs more help.

[Luke Barrett]

Well you'd still have the preset difficulties (which are just a mix of these options). This just allows those of us who really want a challenge to do so. I've also seen several threads about people wanting to play Nightmare without specific things (friendly fire for instance).

[Relvor]

The willingness of enemies to use high level abilities/spells

hard: as soon as ability cooldown finishes
easy: do a few more standard attacks after cooldown, then use ability
very easy: only use ability once

or sth like that

[lazuli]

How about this one:

Ancient Rock Wraith (yes/no).


Sarcasm aside, the ability to scale boss HP would be welcome.

Modifié par lazuli, 23 mars 2011 - 12:24 .

[Loc'n'lol]

Luke Barrett wrote...

• Friendly Fire (0-100%) : Percent damage allies take from Area of Effect abilities
• Damage Scaling (50%-300%): Amount of Damage the Player and companions do to enemies
• Enemy Damage Scaling (50%-300%): Amount of Damage enemies do to the Player and companions
• Knockdown Immunity Timer (0-6s): Determines how long users will be immune to knock[back/down] effects after being  hit by one.

Ok.

• Enemy Spell Immunity (0%-100%): Scales spell immunity from enemies being affected by all spell types to only one damage type hurting certain enemies (for instance)

Please don't go overboard with immunities (in general, not limited to damage type), that's just frustrating : you didn't get the right build, too bad, you'll just have to auto-attack this fight to its conclusion !
Also, please don't make ordinary human beings immune to an elemental type (unless there's a plot justification behind it, somehow).

• Potion Usage (On/Buff Only/Off): Determines which types of potions, if any, a player can use

Sounds bad. Don't restrict item/power use based on difficulty. Putting limits or toning down the effect might be better, but even then... usually, only on the harder difficulties will players even consider using stuff that is not cookie-cutter (traps, poisons, grenades, special potions...).

• Ability Cooldown (50%-300%): Determines how long player abilities stay on cooldown

I don't think it's a very good idea, because players who play on higher difficulties will tend to use their abilities more 'optimally' and have mor eneed for it based on the previous points alone. Players enjoying a lower difficulty setting might be overwhelmed by too many abilities being always ready, or they may not see any reason to use more than a few to get through anything. Overly long cooldowns don't make anything fun either.

• Potion Cooldown (0-360 seconds): Determines how long potions remain on cooldown after being used
• Enemy Cooldown (50%-300%): Determines how long enemy abilities stay on cooldown

Why not...
Try to reach a coherent equilibrium though, at some point around the harder difficuties, player and (elite) enemy cooldowns should be about the same. Bosses can cheat the rules if need be.

• Out-of-Combat Cooldown (0-100%): Determines how long abilities stay on cooldown if you are out of combat.

I'd drather not have out-of-combat cooldowns.

• Pause (On/Off): Determines whether a player can pause the action at any time during the game

That sounds irritating.

• Out of Combat Health Regeneration (0-100%): Determines how fast HP is regenerated while out of combat.

Can't see a reason for that. Either you regenerate completely and the game is balanced around that, or you don't regenerate at all, and again the game is balanced around that. If you can regenerate quickly out of combat, the I'd rather it be very fast, no point in waiting.

• AI Tactics (On/Off): Determines whether AI tactics are locked or not [forcing users to play all companions]

Sounds like more annoyance than difficulty

Anyways, if you can think of anything else or have comments on these things let me know. Again, this is just a curiousity and DOES NOT reflect ANY plans for the franchise at present or in the future.

• Priority targetting : enemies are much more likely to go for the weakest/more dangerous party members first.
• Merciful dice rolls : on easier difficulties, attacks against a player character that is low on health do less damage than they should, or have a chance to miss completely, giving the player a little more time to react

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 23 mars 2011 - 12:56 .

[StingingVelvet]

Lowering boss HP on nightmare would be cool... maybe up their damage to compensate or something, but right now they just take way too long to kill if you ask me.

The best change to combat would be 50% FF on normal and 75% on hard, but maybe that's me.

Dream change would be to remove reinforcements in most fights and up the first group's difficulty.

[Andronic0s]

What I meant by better AI was something that could work with the tactics system already established (assuming enemy AI uses a similar system)

for example, making Archers target mages by giving them a priority on nearest visible mage, which would of course be override by a "being attacked by malee attack" command, this way the archers which have the ability to bypass the warriors and attack far away targets put pressure on the mages forcing said mages to defend themselves and cease to support the warriors until the user does something about it.
Of course something would have to be done about the lockdown otherwise it would just be too frustrating since archers would pretty much kill mages as it stands now.