23 réponses à ce sujet

[Tsongo]

I dare say this has been said many times before but I've just finished playing Dragon Age Origins for the first time and the ending leaves me wondering what happened.


Not what happened in the wardens future but what happened to whoever wrote the story. Choices are good but when they are so severe story wise they destroy all hope of a good solid ending/sequel they make me wonder.


What possessed the writers to create a story where somebody dies with the Archdemon ? This is a bit pointless and also destroys any way of returning the warden in the future as maybe he/she took the ultimate sacrifice. Alistair can be dead ( making his return impossible ) upsetting those that liked him in part 2, Morrigan leaves pregnant or not ( weird thinking you'd let her leave with your baby in the first place ), Leliana can be dead too, who's the ruler ? It all adds up to a sequel that is either very vague, has nothing to do with this part except for where it's set or one that disregards whatever you've done and carries on regardless, unless there is some pretty amazing writing done and parallel stories written but I can't see that happening.


Why upset the people who bought your product ? I for one will not be buying part 2 or any expansions as they seem a bit pointless and for what ? A couple of throw away lines somewhere or me wondering what happpened again. It's a shame but it seems Bioware got carried away, didn't think of the consequences and burnt their own bridges. Should a baby return in the future which I suspect, how if there was no ritual or romance ?
I've been looking through the final conversations in the toolset and none are that good most finishing with people splitting up eventually, this I think is due to the warden not neccesarily surviving. Did they not think to the future when creating archdemon lore ?


A happy conclusive ending would have been far easier with people wanting to know what happened next in this land safe in the knowledge the warden and his gang were all happy heroes/anti heroes and giving the writers absolute freedom in the next story. Bring back Flemeth no problem she's magic, send in an old Morrigan/ Leliana/ Sten leaving the warden happy in his castle training others. It would all add up and leave the player satisfied not like me thinking why do that ? If it's a twist in a plot you want then ensure the same thing happens to everybody or don't bother.


NeverwinterNights2 ending was bad, ( having a building fall on your head and total wipeout ) but at least they had the decency to return you at a high level with an explanation in part 2. This just leaves me feeling unsatisfied and wondering whether Bioware really care about their customers as let's face it this game takes a long time to play and sucks you in but it's not very nice to be spat out at the end is it. I had high hopes for this but I'm disappointed and no matter how many carrots Bioware dangle in front of my nose I wont be interested as they've got carried
away with their own choices, it seems impossible to make them add up with any substance in the future and any attempt at pretending they do or that there was some form of purpose in the wardens struggle will just be done to make money from the people who played this before. Surely the joy of creation is more about leaving people happy with your work than anything else.

 
Sorry about the rant but my poor warden got battered all over the place, his girlfriend left him, so did his mates and I don't think the hero of a nation really deserves that especially when he behaved himself and didn't upset anyone that didn't deserve it. I'm coming back as a blood mage and all will suffer on the next playthrough !

Modifié par Tsongo, 22 mars 2011 - 08:44 .

[MKDAWUSS]

If you think the DAO story is bad, say hello to DA2.

[ejoslin]

No one has to die...

I love all the endings to DAO, though, so what do I know.

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 mars 2011 - 10:03 .

[errant_knight]

There are lots of ways for the game to end, and some of them are quite happy. You only played once, so you only know one outcome for one character and with one romance. There will never be a conclusive ending, though, except possible in the last dragon age game they make.

Modifié par errant_knight, 22 mars 2011 - 10:09 .

[Maria13]

I think it was one of the outstanding merits of DA:O that they could make a game with such a diverse number of beginnings and endings...

[Tsongo]

MKDAWUSS.. Oh Dear.

ejoslin.. No they don't but it's an option that makes the wardens appearance later impossible other than a mention or very minor role that doesn't really matter.

errant_knight and Maria13.. What I mean is that the sheer diversity of endings can only possibly make it inconclusive and very difficult to ever continue a story. If you're going to do that then finish it properly in the first place and start afresh. I understand I've only played it once and I'll see how it goes later but it's certainly failed in making me eagerly anticipate anything.

[errant_knight]

See, it had the opposite effect on most people, the diversity making it so replayable.

[Glorfindel709]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

If you think the DAO story is bad, say hello to DA2.

QFT

[Tsongo]

errant_knight.. I'm not saying it isn't replayable it definitely is, but it just seems to be such a strange design choice to have options for the main characters including yourself to be dead, alive or missing even possibly pregnant with a god, how many possible options have you got for a story before you even start on a sequel ? Unless an incredible ammount of work is done to take all events into consideration this can only lead to a weaker part 2 and an unfinished part 1 which seems a bit daft.

[Glorfindel709]

Part 1 (With Awakening+Witch Hunt) is so far self contained. Your warden does not re-appear in DA2, though some characters from Origins will.

[errant_knight]

Tsongo wrote...

errant_knight.. I'm not saying it isn't replayable it definitely is, but it just seems to be such a strange design choice to have options for the main characters including yourself to be dead, alive or missing even possibly pregnant with a god, how many possible options have you got for a story before you even start on a sequel ? Unless an incredible ammount of work is done to take all events into consideration this can only lead to a weaker part 2 and an unfinished part 1 which seems a bit daft.

The squels are not direct sequels. Choices you make will affect the story, but not continue directly. For example, Alistair has a small appearance in DA2, that can be very different, or not take place at all, depending on your choices. A character from Awakening appears regardless of what you did in that story. If the writers want something to happen, they will find a way to make it so, if they don't, we won't.  And it may be that they've come to agree with you in a sense, because we can change virtually nothing in DA2, much to the game's detriment. All or nothing, that's Bioware.

[Tsongo]

Glorfindel709.. I thought the warden was impossible they really killed that one off even if you didn't.

errant_knight.. Then that is a real shame and is why I wondered what it is that Bioware have done to offer life/death/pregnant choices. I've been looking at other posts and apparently someone will return from the dead even if you killed her so why offer that in the first place ? Had they thought about part 2's story before doing it ? I think it's better not to have so many options and any sequel to be a good continuation of your actions even if they're not so varied at the end at least they know where you stand and don't need to make up excuses or railroad you in the future. We'll see...

[Brockololly]

Tsongo wrote...
 I've been looking at other posts and apparently someone will return from the dead even if you killed her so why offer that in the first place ? Had they thought about part 2's story before doing it ? I think it's better not to have so many options and any sequel to be a good continuation of your actions even if they're not so varied at the end at least they know where you stand and don't need to make up excuses or railroad you in the future. We'll see...

Thats an excellent point really. Why offer a choice to the player if its just going to be retconned with no explanation anyway?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Awakening offered resurrection because people would have been screaming and complaining if they couldn't play as their Origins Warden PC. I don't take the resurrection as canon, and if you play that route then the game automatically assumes the Dark Ritual was accepted, removing the need for you to play the entire damn endgame battle yourself to get exactly the same result.

What Awakening should have done is put a disclaimer on US imports stating outright it would retcon certain elements of your playthrough. Then people who wanted to complain about this issue wouldn't be able to.

Anyway. I love the open-endedness of Origins and the many ways things could play out. I *do* agree that this would make it hard or impossible for sequels following a single player or canon storyline, but DA2 does not follow the Warden and we don't know about DA3 yet.

[errant_knight]

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with there being a canon ending that followed through, as long as it wasn't gender based. It wouldn't have to follow all the choices, some could be open--just the main ones, like the dark ritual. It wouldn't make playing the alternatives any less enjoyable to me, but I know a lot of people feel differently about it. Of course, the ones who'd feel best about it would probably be those whosse personal preference was the canon.

[Satyricon331]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
Awakening offered resurrection because people would have been screaming and complaining if they couldn't play as their Origins Warden PC. I don't take the resurrection as canon, and if you play that route then the game automatically assumes the Dark Ritual was accepted, removing the need for you to play the entire damn endgame battle yourself to get exactly the same result.

What Awakening should have done is put a disclaimer on US imports stating outright it would retcon certain elements of your playthrough. Then people who wanted to complain about this issue wouldn't be able to.

Anyway. I love the open-endedness of Origins and the many ways things could play out. I *do* agree that this would make it hard or impossible for sequels following a single player or canon storyline, but DA2 does not follow the Warden and we don't know about DA3 yet.

Actually, they keep the US ending and instead make the "Warden Commander" an unspecified someone else, according to David Sims of Bioware.

And fwiw, I think they've generally done a good job of managing the continuity of multiple threadlines between games (excepting the inexplicable Leliana resurrection that some people experienced).  There's nothing to say they can't keep doing so.

[Tsongo]

Imagine this, the whole journey you have been on is like a set of railway tracks, which line you start on is up to you but these lines will meet at certain stations on the way, how you got there doesn't matter ( saved the werewolves, had a romance, which dwarf you helped etc ) then they all meet up at the big station for the final journey. By putting in the arch demon death stuff you've just blown the whole thing apart again ! This is done for a couple of lines of different text at the end and sacrifices what could be a more "linked" sequel that would have been easier to write and give far more continuity.

What I wonder is why did the "makers" dig themselves into a hole right at the end with the only way out being upset some people, if you're going to say "this is what happened" do it at the beginning not in part two or three because for some people it wont have happened.

[Greta13]

Tsongo wrote...

What I wonder is why did the "makers" dig themselves into a hole right at the end with the only way out being upset some people.

I think it's impossible to please everybody no matter what you do. What some people like, others might hate, therefor isn't it best to have a lot of choices so ALMOST everybody will be able to make a choice they're mildly pleased with? But this is just my humble opinion :innocent:

[Wedger]

Op should read some George R R Martin....

[Tsongo]

Wedger.. Unlikely if they end like this but thanks for the warning.

Greta13.. I'm not saying choices are bad and I agree you can't please everyone and never will but it's just that the ritual stuff can only cause problems/lack of continuity or people wondering why something happened later when they did the opposite.

Here's an idea.. Morrigan approaches you for the ritual you agree no problem, you don't so she seduces you in the fade that night, you're a woman so she spikes Alistair's drink and off to the fade again. All these choices finish up in one conclusion. Morrigan = pregnant, baby = important, Warden = alive. Now this gives you a solid base to start sequels from, no need to alienate peoples choices in the future because it happened. No need to decide something happened in the majority of games and nobody wonders what's going on. Leliana problem solved in a simple cutscene, you kill her but as you walk of the Andraste statue glows a bit, she's alive now she can return regardless.

Choices were made but now the makers can build upon them and create a more linked sequel with more mentions of past events and more suspense regarding Morrigan's actions that night. I haven't played part 2 ( and probably never will from what I've read ) but the fact that it's in the future with a set character and less options could well be a result of trying to avoid the compatibility issues caused by the end choices in this.

[PaulSX]

Tsongo wrote...
Choices were made but now the makers can build upon them and create a more linked sequel with more mentions of past events and more suspense regarding Morrigan's actions that night. I haven't played part 2 ( and probably never will from what I've read ) but the fact that it's in the future with a set character and less options could well be a result of trying to avoid the compatibility issues caused by the end choices in this.

That's true. DAO had too many possible ending outcomes which makes the sequel hard to come up with it.  So generally they move out from this path, go to another direction which is what we already knew - DAII. DAO will be probably set as a fundation for future releases, but direct sequel to DAO is not likely to happen imo.

[Darkshore]

They just wanted to give us as players the option to play out the story of the Warden in whichever way we saw fit. If your DA:O warden dies you can still play Awakening as an Orlesian Warden. The DA:O story affects DA2 somewhat but not much. It seems that they have a set story for us and we can just choose the fine points of how our characters play it out. I am interested in why they gave the god baby option though. Seems like that would be a big deal.

[Tsongo]

suntzuki.. It's a shame isn't it.

Darkshore.. I know, the baby is a total mystery and if it appears it'll have to be a railroad of "this happened" perhaps with a disclaimer at the beginning, otherwise they'll fill the forums with questions about its existance. I think the whole ritual should've been forced anyway ( or just forgotten ) it's not as if anybody with a romance with Morrigan wasn't railroaded anyway, they drove a monster truck down that one ! We'll have to wait and see..