4350 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Leliana looks closer to her CGI counterpart now. Me likey.

[Deztyn]

I'm not sure I know what to do with this thread's new direction.

Boring repetitive on topic stuff:

[quote]Rifneno wrote...

[quote]Deztyn wrote...

But that depends on how much trouble those 10% cause, doesn't it?[/quote]

Err. no? Because it's not only causing less overall abominations, it's producing those abominations in the middle of a templar stronghold.[/quote]

. . . aren't we still talking about your theoretical Circle where kids go home to see their parents and mages get let out more often? 

If so, while more people are willingly giving themselves or their children up, being allowed to leave more frequently makes even a slight increase in the abomination rate much more dangerous, not less. Since it's more likely that those Abominations will happen outside the controlled environment of the Circle and away from the Templars.

If not... I have no idea what we're talking about anymore!

[quote]It was a MiB reference. I meant that she was an abomination at that point and we're hearing a demon talk, not the mage that fell to a demon.[/quote]

I didn't get the reference, but I got that it was a joke. I was just saying that we do know what motivated Taronhe to get involved with demons in the first place.

[quote]
Make deals yes, but I don't recall ever seeing one run. As for their power, I'd only believe that if it's a gameplay/lore separation. Because the desire demons encountered in-game are far weaker than prides in combat. With a desire demon I'm usually lazy and just autoattack whereas I break out the heavy artillery at the first sign of a pride demon. The prides still give me a lot more trouble.[/quote]

Well the running usually happens after the dealmaking. According to the lore, desire demons are top tier just below the pride demons.

From the Codex:

"Only demons of pride prove more fearsome opponents when roused. Their abilities to affect the mind allow them to assume disguises and even alter the environment to their purposes, not to mention the great strength and speed they possess if they should have to resort to more physical means. Most often
a desire demon will attempt to bargain its way to freedom if overpowered—many stories exist that depict mages defeating desire demons to the point where a wish can be wrested from them. It should be noted
that in such stories the demon almost always gets the upper hand even when the mage thinks his wish has been granted."

[quote]Hawke's not alone. S/he is joining the entire Kirkwall Circle.[/quote]

And facing an army that's supposed to be able to massacre the entire Kirkwall Circle.

[quote]
It'd be a pretty bad game if the player couldn't fight what they perceive as the bad guys. But I'm not saying both are "wrong." I'm saying Gregior used a legal loophole. And Meredith... is there really any denying she breaks the law? Even if we don't get into her usurping power in Kirkwall, what about the lyrium idol? I don't mean its effects, I mean the fact it's lyrium. It's sure not Chantry approved lyrium through legal Orzammar channels. She got tainted by that thing because she was buying smuggled lyrium to feed her drug addiction.[/quote]

Just saying that if we accept that Meredith has the authority to judge and execute Anders; it's not outside the realm of possibility that she's able to defer that authority to another. If we accept that she has the authority to legally call in Hawke to do other work for the templars, like investigating dissidents and tracking down apostates, it's not completely unreasonable that she can legally invite Hawke along to help with the RoA.

That said, making Hawke join might be legal (but stupid) for Apostate Hawke, and is likely illegal (And only slightly less stupid) for Rogue/Warrior Hawke. . . but I could also imagine circumstances where it could be considered perfectly legal since we're not exactly talking about a world that embraces civil liberties.

[quote]Rifneno wrote...

[quote]Deztyn wrote...

Against the Qunari? Against Tevinter? Arguably against the Dales depending on which history you believe?

(Admittedly against Kirkwall would have been stupid.)

An Exalted March is just a fancy way of saying 'war', if you have a problem with that than every country in the world is guilty and should be brought down.[/quote]

Against Kirkwall wouldn't even be the dumbest. The dumbest would be against the Tevinter Chantry. The whole thing happened because the Chantry got their panties in a twist over their Tevinter counterparts having lulz at the Divine's death. Quoteth the Wiki, "Relations between the two factions deteriorated steadily, culminating in a new Exalted March by the Val Royeaux Chantry in retaliation for the Black Divine's declaration of a celebration when the Divine Joyous II died in 4:40 Black." Ok, Tevinter was being offensive, but they weren't endangering innocent people by doing it. Going to a freakin' war over that shows a blatant disregard the lives of even their own followers. Oh, and the whole thing HELPED Tevinter. Check out how it ended. "The Imperial Chantry started to form its own dogma and policies, and the groundswell of mages fleeing from southern lands into Tevinter bolstered the empire’s waning power."[/quote]

It was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Remember, by 4:40 Black the Imperial Chantry had been led by mages for over 50 years, while elsewhere mages still lived in the Circles and the RoA had been around for centuries. Electing the Black Divine was also a stepping stone to abolishing the rules that prevented the magisters from regaining their power. Whether that was a good thing or bad thing depends on your point of view, but the tensions were there long before the Black Divine decided he wanted to bait the tiger. It's more surprising that the Orlesian Chantry allowed it for as long as they did.

[quote]
[quote]
    He also believes that in death the boy will be at the Maker's side.
[/quote]

Isn't that what suicide bombers say before they blow themselves up in a crowded marketplace? People who devalue human life on the basis that their religion says the good souls go to their deity's side anyway... Well, I'm not going to finish that though on the off-chance someone will think I'm talking about something I'm not.[/quote]

This is straying a bit too close to forbidden topics. But I'll say this, having any extreme beliefs usually doesn't end well. In this case, it's also a coping mechanism for people who lose their loved ones, and people who have witnessed or been the victim of horrifying crimes or accidents. That's the way Sebastian was helping Fenris cope.  I don't think this is necessarily evil or psychologically damaging, and Silfren was twisting that dialogue to promote his/her belief that the Chantry is evil. (Or misunderstood it.) Plenty of other reasons to hate the Chantry, and Sebastian too, that particular one ... isn't a good example.

[quote]KnightofPhoenix wrote...

[quote]Deztyn wrote...

[quote]KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Studied too much political science and history to ever think that any one party can get all the blame, or even most of it.

But as a neo-classical realist, I prefer to look at systemic causes first, specific events / individuals second.

[/quote]

... my brain went to art first, and for a split second I imagined Xanatos sculpting marble gargoyle figures.

[/quote]

Hmmm, that's the first time anyone thought I was an artist lol

Which I guess I am since "Politics is the art of the possible."

[/quote]

It was a moment of "What? Wait. Oh, DUH!" It didn't even make the slightest bit of sense in context, but my brain saw Neo-classical and classical Realism and thought art/music/literature. My only excuse is it was 3am.

Modifié par Deztyn, 14 mai 2011 - 07:43 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

No but seriously, I have yet to understand the purpose of the Harvester and what Orsino was thinking.

I think he was just desperate and wanted to take out everyone he could before dying. 

Still was stupid as heck with a Hawke who sided with him though. Makes much more sense on the templar ending.

I meant the entire plan from the start. What was he hoping to accomplish with it?
To sacrifices a few mages, create Harvesters and then...take over Kirkwall? Was he positevely sure than the Harvesters would be loyal to him (and apparently they wouldn't be)? Did he think he would have enough to be able to defend the mages after an inevitable retaliation? What would the people and other mages even think about this?

Blood magic could be much more powerful and subtle than this. Why didn't he research about something actually useful?

This kind of idiocy makes Anders relatively mild. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 mai 2011 - 07:47 .

[LobselVith8]

Silfren wrote...

Also, this requires metagaming, but Danarius does make Hawke a promise that could prove reeaaaaaaalllly helpful what would a mage revolution going on.

What offer is that? I thought the only thing that Danarius offers him is a tour.

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I meant the entire plan from the start. What was he hoping to accomplish with it?
To sacrifices a few mages, create Harvesters and then...take over Kirkwall? Was he positevely sure than the Harvesters would be loyal to him (and apparently they wouldn't be)? Did he think he would have enough to be able to defend the mages after an inevitable retaliation? What would the people and other mages even think about this?

Blood magic could be much moe powerful and subtle than this. Why didn't he researhc about something actually useful?

This kind of idiocy makes Anders relatively mild. 

I don't think he had a plan. He just reacted to what Meredith did. I'm pretty sure he knew he was going to dieand the only thing he cared about was taking out as many templars as he could. And no I don't think he thought about any of that. 

Probably because he was holding the same idiot ball Hawke was carrying around. And someone at BW wanted to reuse the Harvester. For...some reason.  

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Leliana looks closer to her CGI counterpart now. Me likey.

I like it as well. I just wish Alistair and the other males hadn't turned out looking like 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 mai 2011 - 07:49 .

[TEWR]

I'm going to assume that Alistair and Teagan only look like that because they were intended as small cameos, whereas Leliana has a fairly big role.


Regardless, no one likes the look of Alistair and Teagan. I hope Bioware picks up on this.

[Dave of Canada]

Ryzaki wrote...
I like it as well. I just wish Alistair and the other males hadn't turned out looking like 

Alistair gained weight since he isn't fighting Darkspawn every day of his life, it's his good old grey warden hunger kicking in!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I meant the entire plan from the start. What was he hoping to accomplish with it?
To sacrifices a few mages, create Harvesters and then...take over Kirkwall? Was he positevely sure than the Harvesters would be loyal to him (and apparently they wouldn't be)? Did he think he would have enough to be able to defend the mages after an inevitable retaliation? What would the people and other mages even think about this?

Blood magic could be much moe powerful and subtle than this. Why didn't he researhc about something actually useful?

This kind of idiocy makes Anders relatively mild. 

I don't think he had a plan. He just reacted to what Meredith did. I'm pretty sure he knew he was going to dieand the only thing he cared about was taking out as many templars as he could. And no I don't think he thought about any of that. 

Probably because he was holding the same idiot ball Hawke was carrying around. And someone at BW wanted to reuse the Harvester. For...some reason.  

He was researching it for years and he didn't have the feintest clue on how to put it in practise or for what purpose he is risking himself and the Circle?

He is just a complete moron.

I refuse to believe that there was no other, more practical, spells and constructs that he could have researched instead.

[Deztyn]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
I like it as well. I just wish Alistair and the other males hadn't turned out looking like 

Alistair gained weight since he isn't fighting Darkspawn every day of his life, it's his good old grey warden hunger kicking in!

Unacceptable.

First this silly mage thing, now he's losing his figure?

When Queen Cousland returns from The Unknown Regions she will not be pleased.

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
He was researching it for years and he didn't have the feintest clue on how to put it in practise or for what purpose he is risking himself and the Circle? 

He is just a complete moron.

I refuse to believe that there was no other, more practical, spells and constructs that he could have researched instead.

Hey I never argued he was smart!   

Dave of Canada wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
I like it as well. I just wish Alistair and the other males hadn't turned out looking like 

Alistair gained weight since he isn't fighting Darkspawn every day of his life, it's his good old grey warden hunger kicking in!

But he still  as a GW! He has no excuse then!

Plus Anora and the WC will run him ragged. He has no time to get fat even as king. 

[Dave of Canada]

Deztyn wrote...

When Queen Cousland returns from The Unknown Regions she will not be pleased.

Don't worry, Alistair will simply sit on her.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
He was researching it for years and he didn't have the feintest clue on how to put it in practise or for what purpose he is risking himself and the Circle? 

He is just a complete moron.

I refuse to believe that there was no other, more practical, spells and constructs that he could have researched instead.

Hey I never argued he was smart!   

Oh I know you are not hopeless

I hate stories and games where everyone is idiotic, especially the protagonist and the 2 characters that show up when you start the game.

But I gtg. Good night everyone

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 mai 2011 - 08:06 .

[moilami]

Ryzaki wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
He was researching it for years and he didn't have the feintest clue on how to put it in practise or for what purpose he is risking himself and the Circle? 

He is just a complete moron.

I refuse to believe that there was no other, more practical, spells and constructs that he could have researched instead.

Hey I never argued he was smart!   

Dave of Canada wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
I like it as well. I just wish Alistair and the other males hadn't turned out looking like 

Alistair gained weight since he isn't fighting Darkspawn every day of his life, it's his good old grey warden hunger kicking in!

But he still  as a GW! He has no excuse then!

Plus Anora and the WC will run him ragged. He has no time to get fat even as king. 

I don't know who you are talking about but to suppose that talented people should go for similar goals as lesser people do is simply foolish. Talented people do research on what they find /interesting/ because they can. The achievement lies in intellectual challenge.

[Dave of Canada]

Ryzaki wrote...

But he still  as a GW! He has no excuse then!

He's still trying to fix his Blight diet, normal darkspawn fighting isn't enough for him.

[moilami]

IanPolaris wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

The only thing I advocate is that there is no right or wrong decision in DA2.

What?  Not even the choice to sell Feynriel's soul to Torpor?  You wouldn't consider that to be a 'wrong' or 'immoral' decision?  What about sending Fenris back into slavery?

-Polaris

To say there is no right or wrong in mage issue is to say any group of people who can arguably pose a threat to public safety can be exterminated at will. One does not need to think that a second to see how wrong it is. Several puns intended.

[IanPolaris]

moilami wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

The only thing I advocate is that there is no right or wrong decision in DA2.

What?  Not even the choice to sell Feynriel's soul to Torpor?  You wouldn't consider that to be a 'wrong' or 'immoral' decision?  What about sending Fenris back into slavery?

-Polaris

To say there is no right or wrong in mage issue is to say any group of people who can arguably pose a threat to public safety can be exterminated at will. One does not need to think that a second to see how wrong it is. Several puns intended.

Indeed sir.  You have said a mouthful and not in a way that reflects well on several people including some of the writers.  Enough said.

-Polaris

[Deztyn]

PureMethodActor wrote...
 and I loved Finn from "Witch Hunt" because he basically had a sensible idea ("Why try to escape the comfort of a good home" mentality).

... I may have to play Witch Hunt. I've avoided it because I'm not a big Morrigan fan, but it might be worth it just to meet this guy.

Modifié par Deztyn, 14 mai 2011 - 09:20 .

[IanPolaris]

PureMethodActor wrote...

Witch Hunt had a couple disappointments, but the companion characters were cool. As for Finn, I found him a refreshing take on mage characters. He was pretty funny and agreed with Circle policies. I actually wish there were more Circle-and-Chantry loyalists and middle-of-the-road mages like Finn and Wynne. But thats just me.

I'm not so sure that Finn agreed so much with the Chantry policies as much as he never experienced the bad to horrible side of them.  Finn is an admitted rubophobic (fear of dirt) anyway, and lives in the most liberal circle in Thedas which means he does have regular contact with his parents, and deals with Templars who are kept under firm control by a sane KC who regards it as his duty to protect mages (Gregoire)....and the Templar we meet seems to be of much the same mold (I forget his name off hand, but he has the same basic persona and attitude of a lifeguard).

Even so, Finn at no time says he agrees with the Chantry and he does seem very nervous about the line of where bloodmagic begins and ends (with good reason).

Basically Finn is a best case for the circle.

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 14 mai 2011 - 09:36 .

[Deztyn]

PureMethodActor wrote...

Deztyn wrote...

PureMethodActor wrote...
 and I loved Finn from "Witch Hunt" because he basically had a sensible idea ("Why try to escape the comfort of a good home" mentality).

... I may have to play Witch Hunt. I've avoided it because I'm not a big Morrigan fan, but it might be worth it just to meet this guy.

Witch Hunt had a couple disappointments, but the companion characters were cool. As for Finn, I found him a refreshing take on mage characters. He was pretty funny and agreed with Circle policies. I actually wish there were more Circle-and-Chantry loyalists and middle-of-the-road mages like Finn and Wynne. But thats just me.

My biggest issue with DA2 (aside from everyone important to the story being ineffective, crazypants or both) was that we don't get to see much variety to the mages we meet, they're nearly all Libertarians/Resolutionists. I'd have loved to see the other fraternities get their due. I also think Bethany was a missed opportunity for a solid Aequitarian or Loyalist point of view. I could easily see her as a reformer who sees the point of the Circles, but recognizes that Kirkwall's is broken and in need of repair. It wouldn't even require much change in her character, she's already half-way there. (But we'd need to be able to actually talk to her.)

Modifié par Deztyn, 14 mai 2011 - 10:00 .

[IanPolaris]

Off-hand, I'd say that any system that permits a fruit loop like Meredith (and she clearly was insane by Act 3) to completely wipe out a circle on her own authority with no oversight, is a system that has failed.
-Polaris

[Xilizhra]

My biggest issue with DA2 (aside from everyone important to the story being ineffective, crazypants or both) was that we don't get to see much variety to the mages we meet, they're nearly all Libertarians/Resolutionists. I'd have loved to see the other fraternities get their due. I also think Bethany was a missed opportunity for a solid Aequitarian or Loyalist point of view. I could easily see her as a reformer who sees the point of the Circles, but recognizes that Kirkwall's is broken and in need of repair. It wouldn't even require much change in her character, she's already half-way there. (But we'd need to be able to actually talk to her.)

In Kirkwall, what the hell is there to be loyal to?

[Sylvianus]

IanPolaris wrote...

moilami wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

The only thing I advocate is that there is no right or wrong decision in DA2.

What?  Not even the choice to sell Feynriel's soul to Torpor?  You wouldn't consider that to be a 'wrong' or 'immoral' decision?  What about sending Fenris back into slavery?

-Polaris

To say there is no right or wrong in mage issue is to say any group of people who can arguably pose a threat to public safety can be exterminated at will. One does not need to think that a second to see how wrong it is. Several puns intended.

Indeed sir.  You have said a mouthful and not in a way that reflects well on several people including some of the writers.  Enough said.

-Polaris

I mean in the end, when we we are forced to choose sides. This debate, merely to confirm that there was not a rightchoice or wrong choice , but it depends considerations of each.

Just see that the same logic against what is perceived as a  " threat " by the pro-mages and pro-Templars to persuade that in truth, there is not much difference between them, only in the details and considerations.

Note that I do not put everyone in the same package, some make the difference in the camps of the pro-mage or pro-Templars.

[Rifneno]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

But yes, I do think she looked dignified in DA2. Until her incompetence took away from that, but if I focus on looks only, she is not unpleasant to look at. And Orsino has a pretty kickass robe. The only thing memorable about him, plus his staff (and maybe his hair).

I guess I'm just weird, I can't see any physical attraction to a woman I can't stand. She could be a supermodel, I literally just cannot see it. I guess that's why I boggle at the rivalmances. Orsino reminds me of Janus (aka Magus) from Chrono Trigger. Well, as much as a 16-bit sprite can look like a modern 3D rendering.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Hmmm...what was Orsino planning to do with a Harvester exactly?
That thing does have a pretty long tongue...

Oh wow, you found a great use for blood magic! :innocent:

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Oh god I really don't like that comparison. I just don't see it at all. But please don't get me started on it. I really love the new look of the elves...

Am I the only one who thinks they look like freaks that lived too close a nuclear waste dumping site?

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

it gives "Staff of Violation" a whole new meaning.

You lose a point for not pointing out that it has 3 heads.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

No but seriously, I have yet to understand the purpose of the Harvester and what Orsino was thinking.

I think it's fair to say that no one was thinking anything during Act III. But I think the point of the Harvester was a suicide attack. He knew he wasn't going to be able to control it. It's made of corpses; he wouldn't even be alive. He was just hoping it would take out a lot of templars. And considering the original is so scary Branka wouldn't go near it to get an anvil of the void... it'd probably actually be a good plan if he wasn't standing next to a demigod that's on his side.

It's a shame he did it right after delivering his best line, one of the best lines of the entire game. When he's looking around at all the dead mages, people he knew, people in his care, and he rhetorically asks "Why don't they just drown us as babies?" with such sorrow in his voice. It was a powerful moment. And he completely ruined in 2 seconds later by distracting everyone with an explosion of stupid.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Leliana looks closer to her CGI counterpart now. Me likey.

Too bad her personality is just as different.

Deztyn wrote...

... I may have to play Witch Hunt. I've avoided it because I'm not a big Morrigan fan, but it might be worth it just to meet this guy.

Light 5 bucks on fire and save yourself the trouble. You'll be less pissed at the end too.

PureMethodActor wrote...

Witch Hunt had a couple disappointments, but the companion characters were cool. As for Finn, I found him a refreshing take on mage characters. He was pretty funny and agreed with Circle policies. I actually wish there were more Circle-and-Chantry loyalists and middle-of-the-road mages like Finn and Wynne. But thats just me.

Right. Why aren't there more people who like being imprisoned and abused? Would you like some black KKK members while you're at it? Good God.