4350 réponses à ce sujet

[Lewie]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Necromancy isn't legal in Thedas.

Doesn't seem to matter. I feel kinda sick i can't believe this thread is allowed to go on now. Low levels to get a point is the way.

[Xilizhra]

Yes, it's almost templarlike in its depravity, isn't it?

[hoorayforicecream]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

@hoorayforicecream: True, but it gives us a better guess on the numbers than Broken Circle did.

It doesn't though. I've never seen anyone argue that there were only a small handful of mages living in the tower, but I've seen the terms "hundreds" and "thousands" thrown around a lot when there's no evidence whatsoever. All we know is that Starkhaven circle burned down, so their mages went to Kirkwall, meaning that it has a larger-than-usual number of mages. But what does that really mean? We're still talking about orders of magnitude in difference based on nothing but speculation.

[Deztyn]

I seem to remember hundreds being used, I think in a codex entry.

Edit: The Spiral Eye entry

"Of the hundreds of mages that live in the Gallows, it is perhaps telling that the most well known are its apostates"

It's from one of Brother Gentivi's books, written in 9:24 dragon, so before the Starkhaven influx.

Modifié par Deztyn, 19 mai 2011 - 12:45 .

[TEWR]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

@hoorayforicecream: True, but it gives us a better guess on the numbers than Broken Circle did.

It doesn't though. I've never seen anyone argue that there were only a small handful of mages living in the tower, but I've seen the terms "hundreds" and "thousands" thrown around a lot when there's no evidence whatsoever. All we know is that Starkhaven circle burned down, so their mages went to Kirkwall, meaning that it has a larger-than-usual number of mages. But what does that really mean? We're still talking about orders of magnitude in difference based on nothing but speculation.

I think you think I meant about Kirkwall's Circle. I was saying we have a better guess as to the number of mages left within Ferelden's Circle.

I worded my post poorly and for that I apologize.

[EmperorSahlertz]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Necromancy isn't legal in Thedas.

Animating dead via fade spirits is legal and is part of the Spirit school. Whether that's considered necromancy or not, I don't know.

In any case, it's besides my point.

You don't animate the dead via a spirit. The animate dead spell is a puppet under direct control of the mage, which is why you can only maintain one at a time, since multiple would require too much of the brain.
Necromancy is the raising of teh dead and binding them to your will, which isn't what is happening in the spirit school. It is however often mistaken as such, and therefore the spirit school is often viewed with suspecion.

[Lewie]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yes, it's almost templarlike in its depravity, isn't it?

How does that work exactly? If a guy gets on a bus whether he is black, white, green, blue, elf, dwarf and say... offers me magic i don't agree with i am suddenly against him?

Fair enough.

[hoorayforicecream]

Deztyn wrote...

I seem to remember hundreds being used, I think in a codex entry.

The term "hundreds" was used in the entry about the mage underground helping mages escape from the Kirkwall circle, but since Kirkwall's been around free of Tevinter rule for ~1000 years, and we have no idea of when the mage underground started, that's still open-ended. If a single mage escaped once every 2 years thanks to the underground over five centuries, it would still be hundreds.

Edit: Maybe there are hundreds. That would make killing the mages a lot more atrocious than the handful you actually kill. But then again, if there are hundreds of them, there would conceivably have to be hundreds of templars. Then that makes Aveline's personal quest in Act 3 a little pointless. There are what, two dozen city guardsmen? Why would the templars even care about the city guards at all then if they outnumber them 10:1?

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 19 mai 2011 - 12:49 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
You don't animate the dead via a spirit. The animate dead spell is a puppet under direct control of the mage, which is why you can only maintain one at a time, since multiple would require too much of the brain.
Necromancy is the raising of teh dead and binding them to your will, which isn't what is happening in the spirit school. It is however often mistaken as such, and therefore the spirit school is often viewed with suspecion.

I don't know why I remember it being via fade spirits. Or maybe that's the animated dead that we find at random being controlled by fade spirits, and not the ones the mage raises himself.

In any case, it's irrelevent to my point.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Deztyn wrote...
Edit: The Spiral Eye entry

"Of the hundreds of mages that live in the Gallows, it is perhaps telling that the most well known are its apostates"

It's from one of Brother Gentivi's books, written in 9:24 dragon, so before the Starkhaven influx.

That's kind of a tautology. The most noisy people are almost all the time the most well known. It stands to reason that apostates are more well known than mages who are completely seperated from society.

[Deztyn]

I edited. It's the entry for the Spiral Eye, part of Brother Genitivi's book on Kirkwall: The City of Chains. 9:24 Dragon. So before the Starkhaven mages went to Kirkwall.

I always took the hundreds of escapes to be over time. I never thought it represented how many Anders helped personally. People have argued that? Sheesh. If the Templars in Kirkwall were that bad at their jobs, they should have just freed the Circle and been done with it.

Modifié par Deztyn, 19 mai 2011 - 12:50 .

[White_Buffalo94]

IanPolaris wrote...

louise101 wrote...

When demons want a foothold, their line of sight is a mage. Maybe some welcome it, maybe some are weak-willed and give in, maybe some are strong-willed, and give in. If you were a demon you would want to possess a mage, that goes without saying, yet it doesn't matter on the whole, Lady Harimann traded her husband and kids for more power and she wasn't a mage.

Lady Harriman unearthed an Ancient Tevinter Bloodalter where the Veil was essentially nonexistant.  Not at ALL a typical situaiton even for Kirkwall.


-Polaris

And Lady Harriman was a mage, it is explicitly said that she is the first in the Harriman line to possess magical capabilities

[dragonflight288]

Hmm. If the templars are bad at their job, does that reflect leadership? Granted the reverse is true for the mages. Crap, kind of burned the side I'm trying to support.

[IanPolaris]

White_Buffalo94 wrote...

And Lady Harriman was a mage, it is explicitly said that she is the first in the Harriman line to possess magical capabilities

Where.  Her daughter very clearly states that she was not and that magic had NEVER run in the Harriman line.

-Polaris

Edit:  It also raises the issue of just how was she able to hide it in a family with no magical talent whatsoever.  I am inclined to take Flora's word on this unless you can SHOW me where Lady Harriman was in fact an apostate.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 19 mai 2011 - 02:50 .

[dragonflight288]

Aside from her being with the demon and using magic in battle? Beyond that I am willing to take Flora's word.

I also am aware that one doesn't need magic to deal with demons. She may have just as easily had a magical artifact that allowed her basic spells or something.

[IanPolaris]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Aside from her being with the demon and using magic in battle? Beyond that I am willing to take Flora's word.

I also am aware that one doesn't need magic to deal with demons. She may have just as easily had a magical artifact that allowed her basic spells or something.

Or as I suggested the Demon may have granted her the powers we see.  We know that such is well within the capabilities of a powerful demon after all, and this one was.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  This was also the undercellars of Kirkwall where the Enigma of Kirkwell Codecies tell us that the Viel pretty much completely vanishes and Demons often can (and do) go back and forth between the Fade and the Real world there.  No reason to think that Lady Harriman's demon wasn't one of them....and once in this world, a demon (as you say) can cut a deal with anyone.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 19 mai 2011 - 02:58 .

[dragonflight288]

True that.

[Rifneno]

Deztyn wrote...

I always took the hundreds of escapes to be over time. I never thought it represented how many Anders helped personally. People have argued that? Sheesh. If the Templars in Kirkwall were that bad at their jobs, they should have just freed the Circle and been done with it.

Everyone in Kirkwall seems to be bad at everything.  

Hawke is some kind of superhero, but if he promises to protect you... whew boy, you better get your affairs in order and hope your insurance company doesn't hear.  The Arishok, the supreme commander of all qunari military forces and strategic mastermind, spends 4 years in a slum ****ing about stuff while the person that he's hunting comes within 100 foot or so like 20 times.

[GavrielKay]

TJPags wrote...

I choose to assume all those lunatic mages we saw are repesentative of those we don't see.  Speculation?  Sure, of course.  Just as valid?  Sure, of course - we have no information otherwise.

But yes, it bothers the hell out of me that I have to kill someone who did nothing to me up to that point, based on nothing more than speculation.

I think it boils down to some people being better at role playing than I am.  I have to consciously choose to play a character who doesn't believe as I do and that tends to be after a few play throughs and just to see what I've been missing.  To get into the head of someone who'd been raised in the conditions our Hawke supposedly was would possibly change my outlook some.  As it is, I can't see past Meredith and her bloodlust to anything that feels like a greater good.

[White_Buffalo94]

IanPolaris wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Aside from her being with the demon and using magic in battle? Beyond that I am willing to take Flora's word.

I also am aware that one doesn't need magic to deal with demons. She may have just as easily had a magical artifact that allowed her basic spells or something.

Or as I suggested the Demon may have granted her the powers we see.  We know that such is well within the capabilities of a powerful demon after all, and this one was.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  This was also the undercellars of Kirkwall where the Enigma of Kirkwell Codecies tell us that the Viel pretty much completely vanishes and Demons often can (and do) go back and forth between the Fade and the Real world there.  No reason to think that Lady Harriman's demon wasn't one of them....and once in this world, a demon (as you say) can cut a deal with anyone.

We know demons can grant blood magic, yes. But where are we ever told they can make a non-mage into a mage? Mages can only be born, not made as far as I am aware

[IanPolaris]

White_Buffalo94 wrote...

We know demons can grant blood magic, yes. But where are we ever told they can make a non-mage into a mage? Mages can only be born, not made as far as I am aware

I never said that the demon turned Lady Harriman into a mage (or at least I don't think that's what I said).  I said the demon granted her magical powers as though she were a mage.  That's different.  I'd be very suprised if Lady Harriman could cast a single spell outside that basement...and I wouldn't even be sure that Lady Harriman was actually casting the spells we see her use....or if the demon was casting spells through her (and we know that demons can do that too).

-Polaris

[Xilizhra]

Everyone in Kirkwall seems to be bad at everything.

This could possibly be the one quote to sum up DA2.

[Silfren]

My word. Has this thread passed away at long last? That's....almost sad to see.

[Beerfish]

Silfren wrote...

My word. Has this thread passed away at long last? That's....almost sad to see.

Only a mage sympathizer would say that!

[Rifneno]

Silfren wrote...

My word. Has this thread passed away at long last? That's....almost sad to see.

That only means it's time for a nutjob to cut it up and sew a part of it to other threads to further assault our senses.