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[TEWR]

if freedom was enough for people to run to a better life, Tevinter would've crumbled by now considering all of the slave revolts have failed. The slaves would've just said "F*ck this sh!t! I'm outta here!"

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 21 mai 2011 - 12:42 .

[Harid]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

if freedom was enough for people to run to a better life, Tevinter would've crumbled by now.

The Tevinters speak more about not giving mages freedom than giving them it, in my opinion.

Pretty sure they would have and have crumbled, and they would probably be gone if not for the power of Blood magic.

[Lewie]

Its simple, any time anyone makes a clear point, who has sided with templars, at some point everything that happens in todays world is thrown in force. 

If you side with templar, it simply, for some reason.. has to mean you agree with the worst this world has to offer. Pro-mage players don't seem to notice that they are not criticised for their choice, the reason being we see their point also. Its a one way street, a debate... yet you may trip over a few mines just by stating an opinion.

People feed off it, some encourage it. Maybe changing someones elses choice validates their own, don't know.

My next playthrough is a first time nightmare run, that is scary.  

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

if freedom was enough for people to run to a better life, Tevinter would've crumbled by now considering all of the slave revolts have failed. The slaves would've just said "F*ck this sh!t! I'm outta here!"

You don't think the slaves have tried? Any attempt at escape or revolt by the slaves in Tevinter is crushed mercilessly. The Tevinters brook no bids for freedom from their slaves. Just look how far Danarius went to get his, albeit extremely valuable, slave back.

[Harid]

louise101 wrote...

Its simple, any time anyone makes a clear point, who has sided with templars, at some point everything that happens in todays world is thrown in force. 

If you side with templar, it simply, for some reason.. has to mean you agree with the worst this world has to offer. Pro-mage players don't seem to notice that they are not criticised for their choice, the reason being we see their point also. Its a one way street, a debate... yet you may trip over a few mines just by stating an opinion.

People feed off it, some encourage it. Maybe changing someones elses choice validates their own, don't know.

My next playthrough is a first time nightmare run, that is scary.  

Agreed, to a certain extent.

All I know (at least in terms in the game universe) is I will NEVER back mages until the in game mages actually make a god damned plan about what they will do once they get their freedom, in terms of protecting the common man from situations like the Tevinters, and places like the Blackmarsh.  In game, every mage wants their freedom, and then they do dumb **** to make mages look like they don't deserve it.  None of them have formulated a plan to protect the common man from magic to supplant the Chantry.  It makes them come off as anarchists.  And anarchists are generally stupid people to be around to the point that I can't support them.

Mages need a Martin Luther King Jr., not an Osama Bin Laden.  We've only really seen the latter, though I blame bad Bioware story planning for that.

Yes, I am using real world examples.  You opened the book for it.

Modifié par Harid, 21 mai 2011 - 12:59 .

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

if freedom was enough for people to run to a better life, Tevinter would've crumbled by now considering all of the slave revolts have failed. The slaves would've just said "F*ck this sh!t! I'm outta here!"

You don't think the slaves have tried? Any attempt at escape or revolt by the slaves in Tevinter is crushed mercilessly. The Tevinters brook no bids for freedom from their slaves. Just look how far Danarius went to get his, albeit extremely valuable, slave back.

Did you miss the part where I said "all the slave revolts have failed"? I mean, it was right there and you seem to be acting like I didn't mention it.


Danarius wanted his personal bodyguard back. Fenris isn't an ordinary slave so he shouldn't be used to show how far magisters will go. I imagine that the process Fenris went through is something that could kill you. And Fenris says warriors like himself are rare in the Imperium.

[Lewie]

Harid wrote...

louise101 wrote...

Its simple, any time anyone makes a clear point, who has sided with templars, at some point everything that happens in todays world is thrown in force. 

If you side with templar, it simply, for some reason.. has to mean you agree with the worst this world has to offer. Pro-mage players don't seem to notice that they are not criticised for their choice, the reason being we see their point also. Its a one way street, a debate... yet you may trip over a few mines just by stating an opinion.

People feed off it, some encourage it. Maybe changing someones elses choice validates their own, don't know.

My next playthrough is a first time nightmare run, that is scary.  

Agreed, to a certain extent.

All I know (at least in terms in the game universe) is I will NEVER back mages until the in game mages actually make a god damned plan about what they will do once they get their freedom, in terms of protecting the common man from situations like the Tevinters, and places like the Blackmarsh.  In game, every mage wants their freedom, and then they do dumb **** to make mages look like they don't deserve it.  None of them have formulated a plan to protect the common man from magic to supplant the Chantry.

Mages need a Martin Luther King Jr., not an Osama Bin Laden.  We've only really seen the latter, though I blame bad Bioware story planning for that.

Yes, I am using real world examples.  You opened the book for it.

In Thedas i want to see good mages winning, not evil, ok evil she says, but i would rather see good mages have the say over mages who resorted to blood magic or demons, unless the case is sod them too for the greater cause. I don't want to see the templar order wiped out either because a few scum appeared. The chantry is gone it had no effect on kirkwall, literally. Blame on a few, who are over the edge and evidently you see them having their own justification to right wrongs that they see, they don't ask others.. they know how things should be, to hell with who pays for it. What has Anders actions shown? Hey everyone, lets blow up all the chantrys, our cause is just, by the way these are innocents that will die for the greater good. 

Spoken from the mouth of an abomination.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Did you miss the part where I said tha even when the slaves simply leave, that they will be hunted and killed, or brought back to Tevinter. Slave owners will never just let their slaves leave becasue they are unhappy.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Did you miss the part where I said tha even when the slaves simply leave, that they will be hunted and killed, or brought back to Tevinter. Slave owners will never just let their slaves leave becasue they are unhappy.

Do you have any other evidence of slaves escaping and being pursued that isn't Fenris? Because he is an extremely special case and cannot be counted among regular, non-lyrium infused slaves.

[Harid]

louise101 wrote...

Harid wrote...

louise101 wrote...

Its simple, any time anyone makes a clear point, who has sided with templars, at some point everything that happens in todays world is thrown in force. 

If you side with templar, it simply, for some reason.. has to mean you agree with the worst this world has to offer. Pro-mage players don't seem to notice that they are not criticised for their choice, the reason being we see their point also. Its a one way street, a debate... yet you may trip over a few mines just by stating an opinion.

People feed off it, some encourage it. Maybe changing someones elses choice validates their own, don't know.

My next playthrough is a first time nightmare run, that is scary.  

Agreed, to a certain extent.

All I know (at least in terms in the game universe) is I will NEVER back mages until the in game mages actually make a god damned plan about what they will do once they get their freedom, in terms of protecting the common man from situations like the Tevinters, and places like the Blackmarsh.  In game, every mage wants their freedom, and then they do dumb **** to make mages look like they don't deserve it.  None of them have formulated a plan to protect the common man from magic to supplant the Chantry.

Mages need a Martin Luther King Jr., not an Osama Bin Laden.  We've only really seen the latter, though I blame bad Bioware story planning for that.

Yes, I am using real world examples.  You opened the book for it.

In Thedas i want to see good mages winning, not evil, ok evil she says, but i would rather see good mages have the say over mages who resorted to blood magic or demons, unless the case is sod them too for the greater cause. I don't want to see the templar order wiped out either because a few scum appeared. The chantry is gone it had no effect on kirkwall, literally. Blame on a few, who are over the edge and evidently you see them having their own justification to right wrongs that they see, they don't ask others.. they know how things should be, to hell with who pays for it. What has Anders actions shown? Hey everyone, lets blow up all the chantrys, our cause is just, by the way these are innocents that will die for the greater good. 

Spoken from the mouth of an abomination.

The problem is there are no good mages leading the charge, only **** mages like Anders.

It's the same problem I had with apostatesin DA:O, there were like all of 2 good apostates in DA:O, and every single other one was self serving, horrible people, so it made it hard for me to feel sorry for Apostates.  This game did the same for me for mages.  I always give Bethany to the Wardens and never back the mages, in that case.

The mages that revolt in these games are not the type of people one would want to see with any kind of power.  So I have trouble backing them to any capability, and it reflects on my mage playthroughs, where I generally play as a Blood Mage using ****, seeing as that's largely how mages are depicted in this series.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Did you miss the part where I said tha even when the slaves simply leave, that they will be hunted and killed, or brought back to Tevinter. Slave owners will never just let their slaves leave becasue they are unhappy.

Do you have any other evidence of slaves escaping and being pursued that isn't Fenris? Because he is an extremely special case and cannot be counted among regular, non-lyrium infused slaves.

Kirkwall dock is full of Slave Hunters for starters.

Second of all, no slaving nation in our world have ever just let their slaves run away. Some individual in the nation may let a slave escape, but the general consensus within a slaver nation is that a slave has no right to escape, and when they do, they should be punished.

[Rifneno]

Harid wrote...

And as long as that happens, they can keep spouting bull**** and people will eat it up.  And the chantry works the same way.  As long as every single country, outside of Rivian let the chantry do whatever they please, they will keep doing so, and as long as mages don't have regular people backing their less than 10% minority, they will not be able to change anything.  So this change is a greater longshot than saving money to move.

So I guess the "real world analogies are bad" thing only applies to people that aren't you?  Anyway, considering how DA2 ends, it's not a longshot anymore.

Harid wrote...

I suppose freedom is not a great enough incentive for you, because people cross shark infested waters in THIS world for freedom.  Cross land mine covered land in THIS world for freedom.  Cross thousands of miles in THIS world for freedom.  Hoping on what the chantry COULD do is as stupid as what people themselves COULD do.

As a matter of fact, it's more stupid because you are depending on others doing something than you yourself doing something.  If you are a talentless enough mage to not be able to defend yourself against highwaymen for your own freedom, then you probably weren't going to make it far in life anyway.

This is the kind of thing a draft dodger would write to convince their recruitment officer that they're too unhinged to carry a firearm.

Harid wrote...

The Tevinters speak more about not giving mages freedom than giving them it, in my opinion.

Pretty sure they would have and have crumbled, and they would probably be gone if not for the power of Blood magic.

Woah, people in power sometimes abuse that power?! NO WAY!

No one in Thedas or the real world should hold any position of power because everyone can be linked to some other bunch of monsters that shared a genetic trait! It makes perfect sense now!

louise101 wrote...

Its simple, any time anyone makes a clear point, who has sided with templars, at some point everything that happens in todays world is thrown in force. 

If you side with templar, it simply, for some reason.. has to mean you agree with the worst this world has to offer. Pro-mage players don't seem to notice that they are not criticised for their choice 

Oh look, louise101, the person who flew off the handle about racism against a fictional race while supporting genocide against another, is complaining about being demonized. ... Is it 15 after the hour already?

Harid wrote...

All I know (at least in terms in the game universe) is I will NEVER back mages until the in game mages actually make a god damned plan about what they will do once they get their freedom, in terms of protecting the common man from situations like the Tevinters, and places like the Blackmarsh.

It's funny because he doesn't know the Countress is a toned down version of a real mass murderer. Hehe.

[TEWR]

Yes because those Slave Hunters couldn't have possibly been looking for new slaves. They just had to be hunting former slaves that are not shown or even hinted at in the game.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yes because those Slave Hunters couldn't have possibly been looking for new slaves. They just had to be hunting former slaves that are not shown or even hinted at in the game.

In that case they would be called slavers.

[Harid]

Rifneno wrote...

Harid wrote...

And as long as that happens, they can keep spouting bull**** and people will eat it up.  And the chantry works the same way.  As long as every single country, outside of Rivian let the chantry do whatever they please, they will keep doing so, and as long as mages don't have regular people backing their less than 10% minority, they will not be able to change anything.  So this change is a greater longshot than saving money to move.

So I guess the "real world analogies are bad" thing only applies to people that aren't you?  Anyway, considering how DA2 ends, it's not a longshot anymore.

Harid wrote...

I suppose freedom is not a great enough incentive for you, because people cross shark infested waters in THIS world for freedom.  Cross land mine covered land in THIS world for freedom.  Cross thousands of miles in THIS world for freedom.  Hoping on what the chantry COULD do is as stupid as what people themselves COULD do.

As a matter of fact, it's more stupid because you are depending on others doing something than you yourself doing something.  If you are a talentless enough mage to not be able to defend yourself against highwaymen for your own freedom, then you probably weren't going to make it far in life anyway.

This is the kind of thing a draft dodger would write to convince their recruitment officer that they're too unhinged to carry a firearm.

Harid wrote...

The Tevinters speak more about not giving mages freedom than giving them it, in my opinion.

Pretty sure they would have and have crumbled, and they would probably be gone if not for the power of Blood magic.

Woah, people in power sometimes abuse that power?! NO WAY!

No one in Thedas or the real world should hold any position of power because everyone can be linked to some other bunch of monsters that shared a genetic trait! It makes perfect sense now!

louise101 wrote...

Its simple, any time anyone makes a clear point, who has sided with templars, at some point everything that happens in todays world is thrown in force. 

If you side with templar, it simply, for some reason.. has to mean you agree with the worst this world has to offer. Pro-mage players don't seem to notice that they are not criticised for their choice 

Oh look, louise101, the person who flew off the handle about racism against a fictional race while supporting genocide against another, is complaining about being demonized. ... Is it 15 after the hour already?

Harid wrote...

All I know (at least in terms in the game universe) is I will NEVER back mages until the in game mages actually make a god damned plan about what they will do once they get their freedom, in terms of protecting the common man from situations like the Tevinters, and places like the Blackmarsh.

It's funny because he doesn't know the Countress is a toned down version of a real mass murderer. Hehe.

Insults don't rebuke points.    Just ignore my posts, it'll be easier for you.  But since turnabout is fair play, what  you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this board is now dumber for having read it. I award  you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

See how that resolved nothing?  I'll be respectful until someone is disrespectful to me, sorry.

Modifié par Harid, 21 mai 2011 - 02:19 .

[Lewie]

@Rifneno I never mentioned racism or genocide in any of my responses in here, i simply reacted because i hate seeing this crap brought up here, its not right and also because these things are bull**** thrown by people in here, you just proved me right.

[Rifneno]

louise101 wrote...

@Rifneno I never mentioned racism or genocide in any of my responses in here, i simply reacted because i hate seeing this crap brought up here, its not right and also because these things are bull**** thrown by people in here, you just proved me right.

No, you specifically did bring up racism when you whined about the sarcastic use of the phrase "knife-ear."  Along with some other folks who took things way too seriously.  As for genocide, that goes hand in hand with supporting the templars.  If you support the templars, you support the Right of Annulment.

[Lewie]

Harid wrote...

louise101 wrote...

Harid wrote...

louise101 wrote...

Its simple, any time anyone makes a clear point, who has sided with templars, at some point everything that happens in todays world is thrown in force. 

If you side with templar, it simply, for some reason.. has to mean you agree with the worst this world has to offer. Pro-mage players don't seem to notice that they are not criticised for their choice, the reason being we see their point also. Its a one way street, a debate... yet you may trip over a few mines just by stating an opinion.

People feed off it, some encourage it. Maybe changing someones elses choice validates their own, don't know.

My next playthrough is a first time nightmare run, that is scary.  

Agreed, to a certain extent.

All I know (at least in terms in the game universe) is I will NEVER back mages until the in game mages actually make a god damned plan about what they will do once they get their freedom, in terms of protecting the common man from situations like the Tevinters, and places like the Blackmarsh.  In game, every mage wants their freedom, and then they do dumb **** to make mages look like they don't deserve it.  None of them have formulated a plan to protect the common man from magic to supplant the Chantry.

Mages need a Martin Luther King Jr., not an Osama Bin Laden.  We've only really seen the latter, though I blame bad Bioware story planning for that.

Yes, I am using real world examples.  You opened the book for it.

In Thedas i want to see good mages winning, not evil, ok evil she says, but i would rather see good mages have the say over mages who resorted to blood magic or demons, unless the case is sod them too for the greater cause. I don't want to see the templar order wiped out either because a few scum appeared. The chantry is gone it had no effect on kirkwall, literally. Blame on a few, who are over the edge and evidently you see them having their own justification to right wrongs that they see, they don't ask others.. they know how things should be, to hell with who pays for it. What has Anders actions shown? Hey everyone, lets blow up all the chantrys, our cause is just, by the way these are innocents that will die for the greater good. 

Spoken from the mouth of an abomination.

The problem is there are no good mages leading the charge, only **** mages like Anders.

It's the same problem I had with apostatesin DA:O, there were like all of 2 good apostates in DA:O, and every single other one was self serving, horrible people, so it made it hard for me to feel sorry for Apostates.  This game did the same for me for mages.  I always give Bethany to the Wardens and never back the mages, in that case.

The mages that revolt in these games are not the type of people one would want to see with any kind of power.  So I have trouble backing them to any capability, and it reflects on my mage playthroughs, where I generally play as a Blood Mage using ****, seeing as that's largely how mages are depicted in this series.

I don't hate mages, i hate deceit, which can come from anyone magic or not.

[Silfren]

Harid wrote...

I have trouble feeling sorry for people who, in a bad situation aren't attempting to make their lives better, sorry.

Which tells me all I need to know about you.  Thanks for the one-sentence summation of your total lack of empathy for people with no power and few choices.

Harid wrote...
The catholic church for, example, is telling people in Africa not to use condoms.  There is no massive flight of
people out of africa to change religion, no one is trying to tear the papacy down.  People without power are trying to get them to change their policies, and they do not listen.  Why?  Because people without power are telling them to change their policies.  And as long as that happens, they can keep spouting bull**** and people will eat it up.  And
the chantry works the same way.  As long as every single country, outside of Rivian let the chantry do whatever they please, they will keep doing so, and as long as mages don't have regular people backing their less than 10% minority, they will not be able to change anything. So this change is a greater longshot than saving money to move.

NOT a valid comparison.  Try again.

Modifié par Silfren, 21 mai 2011 - 03:51 .

[Lewie]

Rifneno wrote...

louise101 wrote...

@Rifneno I never mentioned racism or genocide in any of my responses in here, i simply reacted because i hate seeing this crap brought up here, its not right and also because these things are bull**** thrown by people in here, you just proved me right.

No, you specifically did bring up racism when you whined about the sarcastic use of the phrase "knife-ear."  Along with some other folks who took things way too seriously.  As for genocide, that goes hand in hand with supporting the templars.  If you support the templars, you support the Right of Annulment.

All i said was 'knife-ear' had a nasty tone to it. It does to me, if it doesn't to you, thats ok. Deal with it.

[Silfren]

louise101 wrote...

Its simple, any time anyone makes a clear point, who has sided with templars, at some point everything that happens in todays world is thrown in force. 

If you side with templar, it simply, for some reason.. has to mean you agree with the worst this world has to offer. Pro-mage players don't seem to notice that they are not criticised for their choice, the reason being we see their point also. Its a one way street, a debate... yet you may trip over a few mines just by stating an opinion.

People feed off it, some encourage it. Maybe changing someones elses choice validates their own, don't know.

My next playthrough is a first time nightmare run, that is scary.  

Riiiight, because no pro-templar crowd ever does the same thing, and no pro-mage person ever makes a clear point. 


Pro-mage people are criticized for their (our) choice ALL the time.  But you keep right on pretending that the one side is totally reasonable and never makes anything but a clear and valid point, and the other side is completely unreasonable and has no clear or valid points whatsoever.

[Silfren]

Harid wrote...

Mages need a Martin Luther King Jr., not an Osama Bin Laden.  We've only really seen the latter, though I blame bad Bioware story planning for that.

Yes, I am using real world examples.  You opened the book for it.

For the millionth time, Anders =/= Osama bin Laden.  Try John Brown.  Also, I know I'm not the only one sick of people apparently believing that real-world terrorism begins and ends with bin Laden.  Has it ever even occurred to you that you're giving him precisely the kind of power and infamy he wanted by insisting on making him terrorism's poster child?

[Silfren]

louise101 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

louise101 wrote...

@Rifneno I never mentioned racism or genocide in any of my responses in here, i simply reacted because i hate seeing this crap brought up here, its not right and also because these things are bull**** thrown by people in here, you just proved me right.

No, you specifically did bring up racism when you whined about the sarcastic use of the phrase "knife-ear."  Along with some other folks who took things way too seriously.  As for genocide, that goes hand in hand with supporting the templars.  If you support the templars, you support the Right of Annulment.

All i said was 'knife-ear' had a nasty tone to it. It does to me, if it doesn't to you, thats ok. Deal with it.

What you did was take far too seriously a throwaway comment about a fictional character that was meant tongue-in-cheek.  Reading a genuinely nasty tone into a non-serious comment about a fictitious creature is going to get mind-boggled reaction.  It certainly had me wondering how you reacted to people who roleplayed their characters as racists.

[Rifneno]

louise101 wrote...

All i said was 'knife-ear' had a nasty tone to it. It does to me, if it doesn't to you, thats ok. Deal with it.

So... you felt the need to state that an insult has a nasty tone to it? O_o

Also, how do you tell tone via text? That's a neat trick!

Silfren wrote...

For the millionth time, Anders =/= Osama bin Laden.  Try John Brown.  Also, I know I'm not the only one sick of people apparently believing that real-world terrorism begins and ends with bin Laden.  Has it ever even occurred to you that you're giving him precisely the kind of power and infamy he wanted by insisting on making him terrorism's poster child?

I want to work the phrase "shark sandwich" in here somewhere, but I can't figure out how. Aw well. I'm not surprised most of them don't seem to be able to get past the bin Laden comparison. It would require some actual knowledge of historical terrorism rather than relying on shock value.

[Silfren]

Rifneno wrote...

louise101 wrote...

All i said was 'knife-ear' had a nasty tone to it. It does to me, if it doesn't to you, thats ok. Deal with it.

So... you felt the need to state that an insult has a nasty tone to it? O_o

Also, how do you tell tone via text? That's a neat trick!

Silfren wrote...

For the millionth time, Anders =/= Osama bin Laden.  Try John Brown.  Also, I know I'm not the only one sick of people apparently believing that real-world terrorism begins and ends with bin Laden.  Has it ever even occurred to you that you're giving him precisely the kind of power and infamy he wanted by insisting on making him terrorism's poster child?

I want to work the phrase "shark sandwich" in here somewhere, but I can't figure out how. Aw well. I'm not surprised most of them don't seem to be able to get past the bin Laden comparison. It would require some actual knowledge of historical terrorism rather than relying on shock value.

Okay, I'm not sure why, since I don't really find shark all that appetizing, but that reference made me hungry.  Time to go fix some popcorn.