Ryzaki wrote...
I think it was something of Sandal's.
If you talk to Bodahn he mentions how Anders is interested in Sandal's work. And we know Sandal makes things go "BOOM"
Silfren wrote...
I've never once claimed that there is any singular, perfect solution that will be completely failsafe. I have, in fact, acknoweldged several times that it's a given that with mages living free, abominations and blood magic will happen. But it doesn't follow that that justifies locking mages away for merely existing.
Which is all fine and dandy if you ignore the fact that the Circles all willfully rebelled when Anders gave them a symbol.Shockingly, the mages didn't want that. But just like you said above: you don't care if the mages don't want to gleefuly die in a crusade for their freedom. It was clear what the mages really wanted to do: have a Circle that works. That was their rebellion in Kirkwall. That was their work with the templars. That was the cause they were willing to throw their lives away from. There were plenty of mages happy and willing to die for a guilded cage that worked.
Anders wants them to fight back - he thinks other mages should have his value: freedom at all costs. That's no different from a templar who believes all mages should value their virtue: security no matter what.
He's forcing mages to choose between death or his ideal world. Which is not very different than the choice the templars give every mage at birth or at the Harrowing.
louise101 wrote...
Anders was planning this for a long time, out of his own mouth, 'I took a spirit into myself and changed myself forever to achieve this'. He didn't take Justice into him in kirkwall.
'To achieve this' is relevant, he had planned it before he got off the boat. How can people be sucked in by him, he is manipulative to a tee. He has to be to achieve what he is planning.
Xilizhra wrote...
Which is all fine and dandy if you ignore the fact that the Circles all willfully rebelled when Anders gave them a symbol.Shockingly, the mages didn't want that. But just like you said above: you don't care if the mages don't want to gleefuly die in a crusade for their freedom. It was clear what the mages really wanted to do: have a Circle that works. That was their rebellion in Kirkwall. That was their work with the templars. That was the cause they were willing to throw their lives away from. There were plenty of mages happy and willing to die for a guilded cage that worked.
Anders wants them to fight back - he thinks other mages should have his value: freedom at all costs. That's no different from a templar who believes all mages should value their virtue: security no matter what.
He's forcing mages to choose between death or his ideal world. Which is not very different than the choice the templars give every mage at birth or at the Harrowing.
Silfren wrote...
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Silfren he does say he wants to kill every Templar in creation. At the tree in Amaranthine, he says he wants to shoot lightning at fools and settle down with a nice girl. You tell him he's aiming too low and he replies back with "True, I want to shoot fireballs at every Templar in creation."
No, he's giving a predictable response to the Warden's reply about aiming too low. Context matters, and there's nothing there to indicate he's hiding his true feelings beneath humor. It's just a non-serious remark, not meant to mean anything sinister. Answering "you're aiming too low" with hyperbole is one of the oldest and cheapest forms of snark in existence.
GavrielKay wrote...
louise101 wrote...
Anders was planning this for a long time, out of his own mouth, 'I took a spirit into myself and changed myself forever to achieve this'. He didn't take Justice into him in kirkwall.
'To achieve this' is relevant, he had planned it before he got off the boat. How can people be sucked in by him, he is manipulative to a tee. He has to be to achieve what he is planning.
I'm sure he planned to do something to start a proper mage rebellion, but I'm not convinced that he had the details worked out all along. Obviously he lied about it once he had the Chantry destruction planned out, but by that time it is possible that Hawke sympathizes or even encourages him.
Just saying... I've played a Hawke that was all for blowing up Elthina's useless self. I've also played a Hawke that wasn't for anything so drastic and wondered how Anders could do such a thing.
Xilizhra wrote...
That was it. The knowledge that the templars could be defied.
Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 24 mai 2011 - 12:17 .
I agree that it doesn't make much sense in the templar ending (in fact, the entire narrative makes no sense in that ending). However, the mages defeating the templar siege and fleeing is still way more than anyone else has ever done.KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
That was it. The knowledge that the templars could be defied.
I would have bought it more if the mages were able to last at least a few days under Templar siege. But they get dominated so easily in one night that I fail to see how something like that is inspiring.
That's another idea that should have been there. To have a real epic battle at the end of Act 3, where the mages last for a whole week (if not more) against Templar onslaught.
Xilizhra wrote...
That was it. The knowledge that the templars could be defied.
Xilizhra wrote...
However, the mages defeating the templar siege and fleeing is still way more than anyone else has ever done.
I choose to believe the explanation that I feel makes the most sense.KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
However, the mages defeating the templar siege and fleeing is still way more than anyone else has ever done.
You're still assuming that they did, when the game doesn't show any of this at all.
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
However, the mages defeating the templar siege and fleeing is still way more than anyone else has ever done.
You're still assuming that they did, when the game doesn't show any of this at all.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mai 2011 - 12:35 .
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
If I were to do that, I'd dismiss the entire story as either a political satire or a nightmare, for it to make sense.
Ryzaki wrote...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
However, the mages defeating the templar siege and fleeing is still way more than anyone else has ever done.
You're still assuming that they did, when the game doesn't show any of this at all.
It's in the epilogue.
Varric goes "and many lived to tell the tale." in the mages ending.
Ryzaki wrote...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
If I were to do that, I'd dismiss the entire story as either a political satire or a nightmare, for it to make sense.
I thought you already thought it was a nightmare? :innocent:
But again, it's much more than what had been done before.Yea, but that doesn't really mean they defeated the Templars.
At best, a number of them escaped. but that's not real military defiance.
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
However, the mages defeating the templar siege and fleeing is still way more than anyone else has ever done.
You're still assuming that they did, when the game doesn't show any of this at all.
It's in the epilogue.
Varric goes "and many lived to tell the tale." in the mages ending.
Yea, but that doesn't really mean they defeated the Templars.
At best, a number of them escaped. but that's not real military defiance.
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
If I were to do that, I'd dismiss the entire story as either a political satire or a nightmare, for it to make sense.
I thought you already thought it was a nightmare? :innocent:
No, because with a nightmare, at least I can wake up and say it didn't really happen.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mai 2011 - 12:43 .
Xilizhra wrote...
But again, it's much more than what had been done before.Yea, but that doesn't really mean they defeated the Templars.
At best, a number of them escaped. but that's not real military defiance.
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
But again, it's much more than what had been done before.Yea, but that doesn't really mean they defeated the Templars.
At best, a number of them escaped. but that's not real military defiance.
I don't think it's that much more. Not enough to inspire them to violently revolt anyhow, seeing how they can get dominated in one night and at best, they'd be hiding all over the place as fugitives.
A real defiance, even if ultimately a failure, would have been much better suited for the plot.
I think it makes much more sense for this mass revolt to be in reaction to Chantry and Templar hardening, in addition to news of the tragedy in Kirkwall and mage defiance.
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