4350 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
The final solution always felt silly to me. If you're gonna do that why not just kill em all and save yourself the cost of feeding them? 

$.
Even he is not that stupid.

Oh I know why Alrik didn't want that. He wouldn't get his sex slaves that way. I'm talking about the other extremists. 

Too bad the Maker doesn't want human sacrifices. If the chantry could be bothered they could say they were letting the mages redeem their curse by letting them stand by the side of the maker or some crap. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mai 2011 - 04:05 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
The final solution always felt silly to me. If you're gonna do that why not just kill em all and save yourself the cost of feeding them? 

$.
Even he is not that stupid.

Oh I know why Alrik didn't want that. He wouldn't get his sex slaves that way. I'm talking about the other extremists. 

Money from echantments I presume.

[Ryzaki]

They would only need a handful of tranquil for that. Maybe a few "deserving" mages to not be tranquil for other things  like healing magic.  

Could have them fight in a collosal arena for the privilage of remaining untranquil. 

Yeah I've been reading too much Hunger Games. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mai 2011 - 04:10 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

They would only need a handful of tranquil for that. Most of the mages aren't tranquil to begin with.

More Tranquils = more enchantments?

I don't know, and why am trying I to make sense out of Alrik. Saner people don't make much sense in this game.

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

They would only need a handful of tranquil for that. Most of the mages aren't tranquil to begin with.

More Tranquils = more enchantments?

I don't know, and why am trying I to make sense out of Alrik. Saner people don't make much sense in this game.

I edited that to make it more clear. 

I just go with: Alrik wanted sex slaves and unquestioning servants. It's easier to justify that way. 

[In Exile]

Ryzaki wrote...

In Exile wrote...
...


...


...

That's horrible. Horrible. Terrible.

Cullen knows it's Anders and that Anders is a known apostate and hangs out with Hawke and Anders is there, and Cullen is all like - cool, I'll tell someone sometime.

The only possible justification is that Cullen is functionally retarded. Think about it - the trauma in Ferelden so addled him that he is no longer capable of thought.

He sees Hawke cast magic but is too stupid to understand Hawke is a mage. It works for everything!

It's not Cullen being dumb. It's the Plot induced stupidity that folows Hawke and Anders around and conforms everyone to it to get it on track. Hawke and Cullen are just particularly heavily hit examples.

Your snark metre is still broken.

[In Exile]

Rifneno wrote...

Oh joy of joys, I get the demonizing brush now? I'm honored. So tell me, what deity am I waging this "holy war" for?

If the mages attack the Chantry as you suggest, and the Chantry as an institution is a target in the war, what makes you think the Chantry won't retaliate by calling an Exalted March against the mages?

I am not saying that you're trying to work for some diety - but the Chantry is a religious institution. Saying that the Chantry itself is a target, and saying that the path the war should take is against the Chantry and not against the templars (along with attacks on Chantry dogma) means that the way you envison the rebellion going is equivalent to an attack on the existence of th

He abused a position of power, and now that position no longer exists. How exactly do you think he wanted that?

Karras raped Alain, but his goal was to kill every mage. He had to be forced by Thrask not to kill the Starkhaven mages. When you talk to him in Act III, he's positively glowing that Meredith called for the RoA because "the Robes will get what's coming to them."

Genocide was his real aim.

Of course it's idiotic, that was the point. It wasn't an actual suggestion, it was hyperbole to point out your own ridiculous "martyr to the great cause" crap being exactly that.

You missed the point. Entirely.

A label is only idiotic/hyperbolic if it doesn't fit. But genocide actuall fits what Meredith has been doing since Act II. Pro-templar advocates may want to whitewash that, but it doesn't change the truth. In the same way that Anders terrorism doesn't change.

And yet, the game ends with mages closer to freedom than they've been since the Chantry's founding because of it.

The game ends with almost the entire Kirkwall Circle dead (or the entire Kirkwall Circle dead). We have no idea if the templars are winning or not. For all we know, the Seekers are moving because templars are murdering mages and stringing up their corpses in a sadistic totem to their complete victory over mages.

As the game ends, the only thing we know is that a Circle has been wiped out of existence and mages are fighting templars. That's it.

Says the guy who's been telling me I want "holy war."

You want to assault the Chantry as an insitution. Explain, again, how that won't cause an Exalted March. It's a holy war because the Chantry will start their equivalent of a Crusade if the mages legitimately threaten the existence of the Chantry by attacking targets like other Grand Clerics.

[In Exile]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I don't see that much point is killing him if one sides with mages, unless it's by principle. Which I don't often care for.

Justice. He's a murderer. Defending the mages from Meredith =! supporting Anders.

[Ryzaki]

In Exile wrote...

Your snark metre is still broken.

 

I need to get it fixed stat. 

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

Fair enough. I just prefer to believe that my protagonist is competent. It makes me enjoy the game more (and believe me, I want to, because the actual gameplay is way more fun to me than Origins).

Quoth the raven, "Varric lied."

Xilizhra wrote...

I have far, far fewer problems with killing Anders than siding with Meredith. I even did it myself once, but considered it unsatisfying.

<insert "experimentation" joke here>

Silfren wrote...

Um.  I...uh...er...I kinda sorta sign my name with "A" kind of...often?  *hides*

Sure, ruin the joke. What's it to you? 

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Oh really? That's something I missed.

For a second, I was about to concede that Anders might be one of those genius lunatics. Turns out it may have been Sandal.

[Lewie]

In Exile wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I don't see that much point is killing him if one sides with mages, unless it's by principle. Which I don't often care for.

Justice. He's a murderer. Defending the mages from Meredith =! supporting Anders.

Anders isn't a good advocate for mages at all, its Justice corrupted and now Vengenance. With the state kirkwall is in maybe, makes sense that Anders changed when he got to kirkwall although he had been planning 'something' before he arrived there. Is Justices' characteristic, being good or bad based on Hawkes friendship only, im just thinking how on earth he could 'change' its more than being angry. He was ready to kill Ella and Hawke had to remind him.... 'Yo, wait a minute etc' Anders reminds me of a psychopath, he is unstable and i can't believe anything he says simply because i don't know who im talking to.

A mage who was i dunno, sane and not possessed would be better to represent them, if it was Bethany for eg. that would be totally different, although i still wouldn't support the lightshow, whether it was the chantry, a k-mart or anywhere that had people inside. 

It doesn't matter a jot either if cullen hears about Anders, anything hawke does or is, is irrelevant anyway. Being a blood mage is a perfect example. 

So many facepalming moments, but heck its a lot of food for thought. 

[HSHAW]

Am I the only person who spares Anders because I think his bombs would be extremely useful in the Mage vs Templar conflict?

[Lewie]

HSHAW wrote...

Am I the only person who spares Anders because I think his bombs would be extremely useful in the Mage vs Templar conflict?

Probably not but everyone has rebelled anyway so its probably already happened, (the circles rose up and set the world on fire?) and Anders is probably up in Tevinter chilling out with a few demons reminiscing.  

[KnightofPhoenix]

In Exile wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I don't see that much point is killing him if one sides with mages, unless it's by principle. Which I don't often care for.

Justice. He's a murderer. Defending the mages from Meredith =! supporting Anders.

So by principle. That's fine.

HSHAW wrote...

Am I the only person who spares Anders
because I think his bombs would be extremely useful in the Mage vs
Templar conflict?

No, that's why my mage Hawke kept him alive as well.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 24 mai 2011 - 01:01 .

[Beerfish]

HSHAW wrote...

Am I the only person who spares Anders because I think his bombs would be extremely useful in the Mage vs Templar conflict?

Bad enough he pulled that stunt once.  I can guarantee you that if it happened again that at the end of it you would either have a Tevinter type group of mages ruling most of the lands or being a mage would be an automatic death sentence.

[HSHAW]

Beerfish wrote...

HSHAW wrote...

Am I the only person who spares Anders because I think his bombs would be extremely useful in the Mage vs Templar conflict?

Bad enough he pulled that stunt once.  I can guarantee you that if it happened again that at the end of it you would either have a Tevinter type group of mages ruling most of the lands or being a mage would be an automatic death sentence.

I don't mean use the bombs on churches, I mean use them more as landmines than anything else.

[Beerfish]

HSHAW wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

HSHAW wrote...

Am I the only person who spares Anders because I think his bombs would be extremely useful in the Mage vs Templar conflict?

Bad enough he pulled that stunt once.  I can guarantee you that if it happened again that at the end of it you would either have a Tevinter type group of mages ruling most of the lands or being a mage would be an automatic death sentence.

I don't mean use the bombs on churches, I mean use them more as landmines than anything else.

My comment didn't mention destroying the chantry specifically at all.  Just knowing that mages had that kind of power and were ready to use it more than once (as in, it happened once only due to a crazed mage vs they have the bomb and are ready to use it at their whim) would lead to an exalted march, and probably a lot of public support in doing away with all mages. 

The Chantry, already a pretty good at propoganda would go into full force and would really push the evil irresponisble mage angle and in this case they would be more right than ever.  There would be a war (as we may see in DA3) and either mages would rule or they would be nearly wiped out.

[TEWR]

HSHAW wrote...

Am I the only person who spares Anders because I think his bombs would be extremely useful in the Mage vs Templar conflict?

I did too. I kept him alive for that just as much for the poetic justice.

[HSHAW]

Beerfish wrote...

HSHAW wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

HSHAW wrote...

Am I the only person who spares Anders because I think his bombs would be extremely useful in the Mage vs Templar conflict?

Bad enough he pulled that stunt once.  I can guarantee you that if it happened again that at the end of it you would either have a Tevinter type group of mages ruling most of the lands or being a mage would be an automatic death sentence.

I don't mean use the bombs on churches, I mean use them more as landmines than anything else.

My comment didn't mention destroying the chantry specifically at all.  Just knowing that mages had that kind of power and were ready to use it more than once (as in, it happened once only due to a crazed mage vs they have the bomb and are ready to use it at their whim) would lead to an exalted march, and probably a lot of public support in doing away with all mages. 

The Chantry, already a pretty good at propoganda would go into full force and would really push the evil irresponisble mage angle and in this case they would be more right than ever.  There would be a war (as we may see in DA3) and either mages would rule or they would be nearly wiped out.

Out of curiousity, can you think of any ways that mages have a chance of winning without use of the A (A for Anders) bomb?

[TEWR]

seeking support from the Dalish, Chasind, and possibly Rivain could help. I doubt Tevinter would care.

The Dalish would have to care because if mages won and were granted freedom that would mean they wouldn't have to worry about their Keepers and Firsts being taken away. Though due to the scorn they face they'd still have to move.

The Chasind are skilled warriors and live among mages too.

Rivain as we know has mages who are free and, as far as we can tell, the nation is no worse for wear than Chantry controlled states with Circles.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I really doubt the Dalish would concern themselves in human affairs. Unless they finally decide to fix that arrogant attitude of theirs.

But I personally think that they would just delight in the human world collapsing in and on itself and would just bid their time and wait.

[TEWR]

I agree that their attitude, though understandable given what happened to them, needs to change. But it would help them in the long run if they helped support the mages and won the war.

[GavrielKay]

I don't think the mages can win any true freedom unless they can actually change the minds of the common folk. Otherwise, even if they evade the Templars, the villagers will just get together and lynch them. The first step may still be to escape the circles and actually get a voice in the world, but war will only get them so far.

They need to get enough negotiating power to get the Chantry to the table and work out a deal to end the preaching of mages as cursed beings.

[KnightofPhoenix]

GavrielKay wrote...

I don't think the mages can win any true freedom unless they can actually change the minds of the common folk. .

Yep and that's what Anders failed to realize. And quite arrogantly dismisses the dangers of magic as only pertaining to "people like you". Perhaps without realizing it, he already made up his mind that it's a war between "us" (mages) and "them" (not Templars, but everyone else). Because like the game says, he is paranoid.

And when the mages would not care about what the people think, you'd get another magocracy (except probably not as impressive as that of Ancient Tevinter) that will take power at least only to ensure self-preservation. And the circle happens all over again.

[Wulfram]

Allies for the mages probably won't depend on sympathy, but on desperation.

In some ways, the best thing that could happen for the Mage rebellion would be a Qunari invasion or a Blight, since then Andrastean Thedas would have little choice but to make a deal.