4350 réponses à ce sujet

[GavrielKay]

At least one person in the list should be "The Self-defeating"

[KnightofPhoenix]

GavrielKay wrote...

At least one person in the list should be "The Self-defeating"

The Divine.

[GavrielKay]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

At least one person in the list should be "The Self-defeating"

The Divine.

Works for me

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Giggles
Win

GavrielKay wrote...
Can you be a Champion of Fail?

You can be the king of fools, so why not.

What's up with me and quasimodo lately?

Victor Hugo's Hunchback of Notre Dame or Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame?


I should probably read Hugo's though. but in order for me to do that I need to buy it. I do know the book has a lot of differences, like Phoebus being a sick b*stard

[dragonflight288]

In addition to fact that Frolo doesn't kill Quasimodo's parents, and names him after quasimodo sunday, which is the day he found him abandoned in front of the church.

And Quasimodo is almost completely deaf thanks to the bells. He can only hear things at very high pitches.

[RangerSG]

noxsachi wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

noxsachi wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...
I guess we'll find out eventually.  I hope they can get back some of the greatness of DAO for the next version.  There were definitely aspects of DA2 that were an improvement, but we lost a lot more than we gained.  Like 60 hours of gameplay <_<

Where do these mysterious hours of gameplay come from? >.> Cause my DAII playthroughs clock in at around 41-42 hours and my longest DAO was 46, and I try and do everything in both games. And in DAO this counts all the DLC. I mean DAII made some huge mistakes (reused enviroments, enemies ninjaing wave after wave, changing mobs from using PC spells to only 3-4 mob spells) and some little ones (mostly related to how companions never changed their sayings as their relationship with Hawke progresses and how they seem to be better friends with each other than you), but the gamelength was very equal to me. I mean if I am missing 60 hours of DAO gameplay, please let me know where to find it, cause I'd love to see what I missed. :x

All the DLC? It takes me 25 hours going through everything in Awakening alone. Also, I notice the "clock" runs for DA2 even when the game isn't active, and the time is cumulative - it adds the same hours of gameplay even if you restart or load an earlier save (at least for the PS3).

Ah I wasn't including Awakening, so that's an extra 13~ or so hours for me.

My shortest gameplay for DA:O was 80+ hours. I had one over 120 hrs. And that's no Awakening, as I don't play it.

My longest DA2 is 48 hrs, and the clock runs all the time, which it didn't for DA:O.

[EmperorSahlertz]

DA:O was too long for my taste. I've played it through too many times to count by now, but I won't again, simply because it is too long. DA2 is "short" and can be completed within a comfortable timetable.

[GavrielKay]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

DA:O was too long for my taste. I've played it through too many times to count by now, but I won't again, simply because it is too long. DA2 is "short" and can be completed within a comfortable timetable.

I'd have been ok with that if they had adjusted the price accordingly.  And not re-used so many maps.  I don't like paying the same price for less than half the game.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I game isn't priced based on its gamehours. In that case Call of Duty should have one of the longest campaigns in the history of computer gaming. They are priced according to the entertainment value they will deliver. But entertainment is subjective, and thus some will get many times their money worth, and others won't. I certainly got my money worth with DA2 since I find its gameplay far superior to DA:O.

[noxsachi]

RangerSG wrote...
My shortest gameplay for DA:O was 80+ hours. I had one over 120 hrs. And that's no Awakening, as I don't play it.

My longest DA2 is 48 hrs, and the clock runs all the time, which it didn't for DA:O.

That all keeps getting bandied about so um well, in DA:O there is the Ostagar section, which is fairly short and really blah, Deep Roads/Orzamar, which is fairly lengthy but I enjoyed, Elven Ruins and werewolves which had a neat story but felt really extraneous, the mage tower, redcliffe, Andraste's Ashes, and then the Landsmeet and games end, correct? I playthrough all that + dlc + no skipping, in 46 hours at the longest. So uhm...yeah, time disparity. Is there an entire game I missed aside from those areas I visited?

And about Emp's comment above I did not feel cheated in any way by DAII, I honestly much prefer it over DA:O as I liked my companions better, and liked the scope and intent of the story. Execution was bungled, but I feel exactly the same about DA:O so its only more matching up with its predecessor than failing in that regard. Could it have been improved? Totally. But I liked what was there and the direction they are headed better than Origins. But YMMV.

Modifié par noxsachi, 28 mai 2011 - 04:30 .

[In Exile]

My shortest run in DA:O was 45 hours. Longest was 75. Don't know how people get that much content in the game.

[Zeevico]

By doing all of the sidequests. All of them. I've clocked in 83 hours. That's not counting reloads.

Modifié par Zeevico, 28 mai 2011 - 05:23 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Anders is the world's slowest, most avoidable trainwreck. Playing through DA:A again, it comes out how hesitant he is to do anything more than run, and how mad he thinks it would be to try to do away with the circles entirely. Then he joins the Grey Wardens and the Chantry still won't let up! Honestly! He belongs to my Warden now, let him freaking live his short sad life. If the Chantry hadn't put "persecute Anders" at the top of their to do list, I'm pretty damn sure he would never have caused anyone any trouble.

Sadly, Anders does a much better job explaining what's wrong with the Chantry in Awakening, back when he's not all Justice-y and more reasonable. There is nothing a mage can do to prove themselves. The towers are practically prisons, and they can pretty much make up an excuse to execute you whenever they want. I'm not saying that mages should be allowed to go crazy and rule with Blood Magic like in Tevinter. I'm saying that we need some form of reformed Andrasteism where "Be a dick to mages" isn't #1 on everyone's to do list. And the only way we're getting that is a war. Not that a war guarantees that result, but with my Dalish Warden and my Templar-trained Hawke, we can damn well try.

We need Stan Lee's Andrasteism, where mages aren't seen as cursed, but rather seen as having a greater responsibility toward their fellow man due to their gifts. Mages who have proven themselves will be allowed to live in towns outside the circle, working closely with the Chantry there, acting as local healers or protectors. I'm pretty sure something like that would have satisfied someone like DA:Anders, but nooooooooooo. You can't let everyone's favorite escapist have one drop of goddam liberty. Perish the thought.

Talking with Sebastian convinces me that the Chantry is not going to change on its own. I wish it weren't so, but the only way things could work is if everyone stopped believing that mages were inherently evil and telling them all that every second of the god damned day. And maybe give them some pies occasionally. Sheesh.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 28 mai 2011 - 04:49 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Talking with Sebastian convinces me that the Chantry is not going to change on its own. I wish it weren't so, but the only way things could work is if everyone stopped believing that mages were inherently evil and telling them all that every second of the god damned day. And maybe give them some pies occasionally. Sheesh.

Yea, and blowing up a chantry does not seem to be a good idea. At all.

But I really believe that Anders' problem is paranoia. He sees all non-mages as enemies, or at the very best, something he is oblivious to (this is obvious when talking with Leliana). That's why I don't think he cares what people think about mages. And that's why he's a fool who learned nothing of what happened in Kirkwall for the past 6 years.

[Nameless2345]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


Yea, and blowing up a chantry does not seem to be a good idea. At all.

But I really believe that Anders' problem is paranoia. He sees all non-mages as enemies, or at the very best, something he is oblivious to (this is obvious when talking with Leliana). That's why I don't think he cares what people think about mages. And that's why he's a fool who learned nothing of what happened in Kirkwall for the past 6 years.

True. In Act III Anders acts like someone not entirely sane. Picks fights (verbal) with companions for no reasons, basically confirms Divine's fears to Leliana. I mean, what would she report seeing that even Elphina's delegation contained incredibly offensive mage who obviously supported rebellion?

He assumes "with me or against me" mentality that is unlikely to work for mages in general and Anders in particular.

[Xilizhra]

Well, if friended by a nonmage Hawke, that doesn't seem to hold true for Hawke, at least.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Talking with Sebastian convinces me that the Chantry is not going to change on its own. I wish it weren't so, but the only way things could work is if everyone stopped believing that mages were inherently evil and telling them all that every second of the god damned day. And maybe give them some pies occasionally. Sheesh.

Yea, and blowing up a chantry does not seem to be a good idea. At all.

But I really believe that Anders' problem is paranoia. He sees all non-mages as enemies, or at the very best, something he is oblivious to (this is obvious when talking with Leliana). That's why I don't think he cares what people think about mages. And that's why he's a fool who learned nothing of what happened in Kirkwall for the past 6 years.

I don't buy the "good behavior is gonna solve all of this" argument. Other than trying to escape, Anders was the model of magely good behavior for most of his life, and it got him no forgiveness, no leeway, nothing but continued, dogged, unrelenting persecution. When free, he seemed to err on the side of helping people, healing people. It doesn't even seem like he ever actually tried to hurt the Templars who hunted him!

None of my primary PCs are mages, but what they all are is Not Chantry. The Dalish have free mages and they seem to do pretty well; in fact they seem to have far fewer abominations and demon summonings and blood pacts. There is Merril, yes, but she's the exception that proves the rule - only the truly desperate turn to Blood Magic, and the more desperate you get the more likely you are to fall. So making mages desperate and depressed and full of self loathing is, as a rule, not the best plan.

Anders' problem isn't paranoia, it's the loss of ironic detatchment. The loss of strategic apathy. We all use our ironic detatchment all day, every day. It's how we can live in the world and not go mad at all the bad things that happen. Justice cost him this ability, the thing we all have that lets us watch the news every night without spitting and swearing and going out on street corners to start a political movement.

Act 1 and Act 2 have him trying his best to set a good example, help people, improve mage PR. But no matter how much good he does, it's not going to help. It simply isn't. Act three makes him finally give up on this illusion he's been maintaining that anything other than a full scale revolution, a full scale war is going to help.

So no, blowing up the Chantry isn't about improving what people think about mages. It's about admitting that the Chantry will never react to goodness, to kindness, to pleas for mercy, it will only react to war. So war is what they shall have.

Will it definitely work? I don't think so. But I think that Justice believes that making the effort to incite some kind of change is better than being apathetic, even if they're likely to fail. Because at least they tried.

If I could think of a better way, I'd offer it. But other than secretly joining the Chantry, infiltrating its ranks 'til you become Grand Cleric, and then hoping to be made the next Divine... I can't see a way.

[Nameless2345]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I don't buy the "good behavior is gonna solve all of this" argument. Other than trying to escape, Anders was the model of magely good behavior for most of his life, and it got him no forgiveness, no leeway, nothing but continued, dogged, unrelenting persecution. When free, he seemed to err on the side of helping people, healing people. It doesn't even seem like he ever actually tried to hurt the Templars who hunted him! 

Being an unrepentant apostate is very much not a model of magely good behavior, not in Chantry-controlled lands. In fact breaking laws repeatedly is not a model of good behavior anywhere, emphasis on model. Even if those laws are questionable. And hurting Templars would get him a death sentence after the first failed escaped attempt. 
 

No, good behavior won't solve much. Open war and mass murders?  These are great solutions, actually, but only for the side that has an upper hand. That's, I think, the Chantry, not mages. For them it sounds like suicide, and destruction of the Circle in Kirkwall confirms it.   Can it be preferable to current situation? Perhaps, perhaps not. But Anders makes such choice for everyone and he has no right to do so. He is not even fully human at that point.

Status-quo sounds like a better way, actually. It is not just, but life never is. Gradual evolution of society and morals can bring fruits. Revolutions tend to bring indiscriminate death. 

Modifié par Nameless2345, 28 mai 2011 - 06:30 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Nameless2345 wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I don't buy the "good behavior is gonna solve all of this" argument. Other than trying to escape, Anders was the model of magely good behavior for most of his life, and it got him no forgiveness, no leeway, nothing but continued, dogged, unrelenting persecution. When free, he seemed to err on the side of helping people, healing people. It doesn't even seem like he ever actually tried to hurt the Templars who hunted him! 

Being an unrepentant apostate is very much not a model of magely good behavior, not in Chantry-controlled lands. In fact breaking laws repeatedly is not a model of good behavior anywhere, emphasis on model. Even if those laws are questionable. And hurting Templars would get him a death sentence after the first failed escaped attempt.

No, good behavior won't solve much. Open war and mass murders?  These are great solutions, actually, but only for the side that has an upper hand. That's, I think, the Chantry, not mages. For them it sounds like suicide, and destruction of the Circle in Kirkwall confirms it.    

I'm just saying that DA:A Anders is harmless as a kitten. Any organization that can change someone like that into a Chantry-destroying madman has got to be doing more harm than good. Any organization that can't find a safe way to help someone like that is doing it WRONG.

Putting people in camps is never a good idea. When has putting people in camps ever ended well? If I had some advice for all of history, it would be this: stop putting people in camps. If you notice you're putting people in camps, maybe step away for a while, try to figure out where you went wrong. With the people. And the camps.

As someone who associates most closely with the Dalish (rather than the mages or the templars... damn you, surprisingly convincing DA:O origin story), it's hard to say revolt isn't a good idea. I'd rather be a Dalish elf than a city elf any day of the week. If the end result of this is a new mage underground working with the Dalish, hiding in the wilds, and stealing from the chantry and the circles, I'll consider that a net win, even if the Chantry maintains its hegemony.

The Templars think they can overrule the Wardens! The King of Ferelden! They're Judge Dredding it up pretty sinister, here. I'm hoping that some of the factions that the Templars have tried to mess with recently or in the past (/cough elves cough) take sides here. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. It remains to be seen.

Anders was crazy, by the end, sure. Crazy like a fox... with all the hounds of hell after him. And it seems he accomplished what he meant to - he showed that the circle could be defied, and all the other circles followed. Even if it all ends in tears, he did something. With Justice riding him, he was fundamentally unable to do nothing.

[KnightofPhoenix]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
I don't buy the "good behavior is gonna solve all of this" argument.

Not "good" behaviour. Smart and pragmatic behaviour. Namely by turning popular support against the Templars.

Anders' problem isn't paranoia

The game says he's paranoid and he certainly shows it.

Act 1 and Act 2 have him trying his best to set a good example, help people, improve mage PR. But no matter how much good he does, it's not going to help. It simply isn't.

Except it is and we know that the people were sympathizing with mages and helping the mage underground. He could have taken it one step further.

So no, blowing up the Chantry isn't about improving what people think about mages. It's about admitting that the Chantry will never react to goodness, to kindness, to pleas for mercy, it will only react to war. So war is what they shall have.

And what qualifies him to speak on behalf of all mages and declare that war?
Does he have any plans to win the war?

But I think that Justice believes that making the effort to incite some kind of change is better than being apathetic, even if they're likely to fail. Because at least they tried.

Justice is the last being I'd ask for his opinion on a world he knows nothing about.

If I could think of a better way, I'd offer it. But other than secretly joining the Chantry, infiltrating its ranks 'til you become Grand Cleric, and then hoping to be made the next Divine... I can't see a way.

Doesn't mean there isn't one.
There was a lot Anders could have done. And if he can't, then he should simply find one who can and follow him / her. 

One thing that oculd have been done is creating an opposition front against Meredith that is made up of many classes in Kirkwall.

[KnightofPhoenix]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
I'm just saying that DA:A Anders is harmless as a kitten.

Yea, except he finds the Baroness impressive and almost expresses sexual attraction.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
To be fair, Anders the sewer-dwelling samaritan could never have done this even if he wasn't merged with Justice. Hawke, on the other hand, could, but was apparently too busy picking her nose and admiring the shape of the clouds.

Both of them are idiots.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yea, except he finds the Baroness impressive and almost expresses sexual attraction.

Really? When? I don't remember that.

If you bring him with you in the Fade. He says that she's impressive and that he likes "strong women". When the baroness is one of the most pathetic characters in Awakening.

Anyways, I have to go. Cheers.

[LobselVith8]

Nameless2345 wrote...

True. In Act III Anders acts like someone not entirely sane. Picks fights (verbal) with companions for no reasons, basically confirms Divine's fears to Leliana. I mean, what would she report seeing that even Elphina's delegation contained incredibly offensive mage who obviously supported rebellion?

Leliana probably should have actually done some investigation to see that plenty of people had an issue with the fact that Knight-Commander Meredith become the dictator over the people of Kirkwall instead of blaming a faction that is only mentioned in one quest, and never again.

Nameless2345 wrote...

He assumes "with me or against me" mentality that is unlikely to work for mages in general and Anders in particular.

On rivalry, it's more apparent that Anders is being taken over by Justice. However, I don't see Hawke or Anders doing much to change people's point of view about mages. I'd imagine a mage Hero of Ferelden would be doing more for the general outlook of mages in Ferelden (and possibly outside the nation) as the new Arl of Amaranthine by being a proactive, popular, and successful leader.

[Beerfish]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Mages who have proven themselves will be allowed to live in towns outside the circle, working closely with the Chantry there, acting as local healers or protectors. I'm pretty sure something like that would have satisfied someone like DA:Anders, but nooooooooooo. You can't let everyone's favorite escapist have one drop of goddam liberty. Perish the thought.

Talking with Sebastian convinces me that the Chantry is not going to change on its own. I wish it weren't so, but the only way things could work is if everyone stopped believing that mages were inherently evil and telling them all that every second of the god damned day. And maybe give them some pies occasionally. Sheesh.

Mages who have proven themselves like Orsino (Mind  cracked harvester), Irving  (head of circle that gets taken over by abominations), Avernus (in desperation for the wardens summons demons a plenty) Wilhelm  (has a demon in his basement)?  I agree there has to be reform, no question about that and there are a few ideas as to how to make things better but there really is no such thing as a mage that has proven himself because though he/she can be the beacon of light for 10 years on day 1 of year 11 he could become possessed and with no one to be right there to nip things in the bud could do a LOT of damage.