4350 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Xilizhra wrote...

I thought it was a joke about how everyone is shoehorned into an unchangeable role. Or at least Hawke is.

Yea I was just trying to make a funny. I seemed to have failed at making a funny funny

[Ryzaki]

I hope DA3 is about the world again instead of just one character. Or that BW is at least honest about who the story evolves around.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 mai 2011 - 09:59 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Beerfish wrote...


Mages who have proven themselves like Orsino (Mind  cracked harvester), Irving  (head of circle that gets taken over by abominations), Avernus (in desperation for the wardens summons demons a plenty) Wilhelm  (has a demon in his basement)?  I agree there has to be reform, no question about that and there are a few ideas as to how to make things better but there really is no such thing as a mage that has proven himself because though he/she can be the beacon of light for 10 years on day 1 of year 11 he could become possessed and with no one to be right there to nip things in the bud could do a LOT of damage.

None of these mages you mentioned, with the exception of Wilhelm(?) and Avernus (!), can be used as examples of what happens to mages who are not imprisoned by the Circle all of their life. I can mention a lot more non-mages going outside the law without being able to use it as an excuse to keep all non-mages imprisoned and strictly controlled. All of them who has. and can do, a lot of damage. Mages are like most people, in that the majority are mostly decent people who could do a lot of good running clinics and saving a whole lot of people, if they were allowed to. But they're not. If they have proven to be able to control their powers, they should not be kept prisoners for the fear what a few of them might possibly do.

The whole Templar system, as it currently stands, is basically this: 

"Hey guys, you know how there are people who are deeply connected with the fade, and who can turn into abominations or be really dangerous if they go crazy?"

"Yeah..."

"Let's psychologically torture them for their whole lives! That will solve EVERYTHING."

[Xilizhra]

Ryzaki wrote...

I hope DA3 is about the world again instead of just one character. Or that BW is at least honest about who the story evolves around.  

This seems likely to me, I think.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

I hope DA3 is about the world again instead of just one character. Or that BW is at least honest about who the story evolves around.  

I  like the premise of the story of one prominent character that does indeed change Thedas. Say a Tevinter magister who rises through the ranks and starts a Tevinter renaissance or something.

Not the sorry excuse of a PC we got in DA2.

[KnightofPhoenix]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
The whole Templar system, as it currently stands, is basically this: 

"Hey guys, you know how there are people who are deeply connected with the fade, and who can turn into abominations or be really dangerous if they go crazy?"

"Yeah..."

"Let's psychologically torture them for their whole lives! That will solve EVERYTHING."

To be fair, I think the Templars are also psychologically tortured as well.

The system is based around mutual fear. Never a good idea.
Fear is arational. It should be substituted by reasoned and constructive caution.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 mai 2011 - 10:04 .

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I  like the premise of the story of one prominent character that does indeed change Thedas. Say a Tevinter magister who rises through the ranks and starts a Tevinter renaissance or something.

Not the sorry excuse of a PC we got in DA2.

 

I like it too. But playing second fiddle to him? Hell no. I'm not blowing 60 bucks to play the SIDEKICK. Never again. Next DA I'm making sure I'm actually the damn protagonist before I buy anything. 

Xilizhra wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I hope DA3 is about the world again instead of just one character. Or that BW is at least honest about who the story evolves around.  

This seems likely to me, I think.

Thank Ra. 

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I hope DA3 is about the world again instead of just one character. Or that BW is at least honest about who the story evolves around.  

Same here. Anders made a terrible protagonist.

 

I wouldn't have minded so much if it had been advertisided as such. Instead I'm said to be playing the big cheese when I'm the side kick. Ugh. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 mai 2011 - 10:10 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I  like the premise of the story of one prominent character that does indeed change Thedas. Say a Tevinter magister who rises through the ranks and starts a Tevinter renaissance or something.

Not the sorry excuse of a PC we got in DA2.

 

I like it too. But playing second fiddle to him? Hell no. I'm not blowing 60 bucks to play the SIDEKICK. Never again. Next DA I'm making sure I'm actually the damn protagonist before I buy anything. 

Was Hawke even the sidekick?

He shows up only in 3 years of the entire thing. I think it's more accurate to call him a recurring cameo.

[Giggles_Manically]

I did not feel that the point was for Hawke to be LULZ BIG HERO PC GUY! .

I more feel Hawke was just the set of eyes Bioware gave us to explain the Mage VS Chantry war.
I treat DA2 more as a dramatic documentary then I do a proper save the world game TBH.

Although that seems to offend people to the very soul of their RPGing identity.

[Xilizhra]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I hope DA3 is about the world again instead of just one character. Or that BW is at least honest about who the story evolves around.  

I  like the premise of the story of one prominent character that does indeed change Thedas. Say a Tevinter magister who rises through the ranks and starts a Tevinter renaissance or something.

Not the sorry excuse of a PC we got in DA2.

If you take Hawke out of the equation, DA2's event would probably still have ocurred in the same manner. Varric would've gotten someone else as good at being the muscle for the DR expedition, the idol still would've gotten out into Thedas,  Anders still would've blown up the chantry, Meredith would've still been driven insane from the Red lyrium, someone else would've rescued Javaris from the spiders, someone else would've confronted The Arishok.

Basically, Hawke added absolutely nothing to the story, except for the quest All That Remains. That's it.

That relies on a lot of happenstance. It's possible that Varric would have found someone who could have pinch-hitted for Hawke, but it has to be someone who's both very good at their job and somewhat desperate, at least enough to be motivated. Anders would probably have been killed by Ser Bardel. Javaris would almost certainly have been eaten.

[Ryzaki]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I did not feel that the point was for Hawke to be LULZ BIG HERO PC GUY! .

I more feel Hawke was just the set of eyes Bioware gave us to explain the Mage VS Chantry war.
I treat DA2 more as a dramatic documentary then I do a proper save the world game TBH.

Although that seems to offend people to the very soul of their RPGing identity.

Yes giggles it offends me. 

I DON'T WANT TO BE THE DAMN SIDEKICK. <_< 

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Was Hawke even the sidekick?

He shows up only in 3 years of the entire thing. I think it's more accurate to call him a recurring cameo.

Now be fair Knight. He was by Anders side most of the time and did participate in most event. He's a sidekick. Not a very good sidekick but a sidekick. 

[Beerfish]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

Beerfish wrote...


Mages who have proven themselves like Orsino (Mind  cracked harvester), Irving  (head of circle that gets taken over by abominations), Avernus (in desperation for the wardens summons demons a plenty) Wilhelm  (has a demon in his basement)?  I agree there has to be reform, no question about that and there are a few ideas as to how to make things better but there really is no such thing as a mage that has proven himself because though he/she can be the beacon of light for 10 years on day 1 of year 11 he could become possessed and with no one to be right there to nip things in the bud could do a LOT of damage.

None of these mages you mentioned, with the exception of Wilhelm(?) and Avernus (!), can be used as examples of what happens to mages who are not imprisoned by the Circle all of their life. I can mention a lot more non-mages going outside the law without being able to use it as an excuse to keep all non-mages imprisoned and strictly controlled. All of them who has. and can do, a lot of damage. Mages are like most people, in that the majority are mostly decent people who could do a lot of good running clinics and saving a whole lot of people, if they were allowed to. But they're not. If they have proven to be able to control their powers, they should not be kept prisoners for the fear what a few of them might possibly do.

The original poster said nothing specifically about being on their own, she talked about ones who had proven themselves, if the 1st enchanters from two circles have not proven themselves then who has?  If you are talking about mages not in the circle you can toss Connor into the equation if you like, good kid, nice kind, on his own, educated by a mage, loving family life, still turned into a demon and killed just a crap load of people.

Yup there are tons of good mages.  I would say the majority and if you look into the mage fraternaties you see that more of them accept the circle life as opposed to the misconception that all of them think they can be on their own without trouble.

You can call it imprisoned, I'd say they have more freedoms than what we think of as imprisoned.  As for should they be controlled because of what they might do?  100% for sure they should be.  See the Connor incident, it's a tad late to say, oh poor kid we better do something about him after he has slaughtered half of a village.

[Beerfish]

Ryzaki wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I did not feel that the point was for Hawke to be LULZ BIG HERO PC GUY! .

I more feel Hawke was just the set of eyes Bioware gave us to explain the Mage VS Chantry war.
I treat DA2 more as a dramatic documentary then I do a proper save the world game TBH.

Although that seems to offend people to the very soul of their RPGing identity.

Yes giggles it offends me. 

I DON'T WANT TO BE THE DAMN SIDEKICK. <_< 

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Was Hawke even the sidekick?

He shows up only in 3 years of the entire thing. I think it's more accurate to call him a recurring cameo.

Now be fair Knight. He was by Anders side most of the time and did participate in most event. He's a sidekick. Not a very good sidekick but a sidekick. 

The funny thing is if you look back on other games a lot of people kept saying they were sick of being the hero that saves the world all by themselves each and every game.  A good many people wanted to be just what Hawke is in this game  (whether Bioware pulled that off with success is up for debate) and wanted to be part of the world, not the world saver.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I did not feel that the point was for Hawke to be LULZ BIG HERO PC GUY! .

No one is asking for a LULZ BIG HERO PC GUY!

I more feel Hawke was just the set of eyes Bioware gave us to explain the Mage VS Chantry war.

Idol. Demons everywhere. Incompetence everywhere. Idiocy even more rampant.
Yea, they didn't do a pretty good job.

I treat DA2 more as a dramatic documentary then I do a proper save the world game TBH.

Then they should have had a documentary, novel or a set of codices for the thing.
Weren't they doing a TV series for DA? That would have been a good place to do it. At least I wouldn't have paid 60$ for it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 mai 2011 - 10:19 .

[Ryzaki]

Beerfish wrote...
The funny thing is if you look back on other games a lot of people kept saying they were sick of being the hero that saves the world all by themselves each and every game.  A good many people wanted to be just what Hawke is in this game  (whether Bioware pulled that off with success is up for debate) and wanted to be part of the world, not the world saver.

I didn't but it is funny. 

It isn't helped by the fact that BW advertised Hawke has being someone who made a difference. When...he really didn't. He just enabled a bunch of crazies. 

[TEWR]

Hawke was too reactive. All he had to do was be proactive. He didn't have to succeed, but he should've attempted to be proactive.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Beerfish wrote...
The funny thing is if you look back on other games a lot of people kept saying they were sick of being the hero that saves the world all by themselves each and every game.  A good many people wanted to be just what Hawke is in this game  (whether Bioware pulled that off with success is up for debate) and wanted to be part of the world, not the world saver.

I was one of those and I still am.

Heck, the "For the Grey Wardens!" thing in DA:O annoyed me as heck, because it reeked of hero worship.
But DA2 was worse for me. The concept was excellent, the execution was horrid.

[Beerfish]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I hope DA3 is about the world again instead of just one character. Or that BW is at least honest about who the story evolves around.  

I  like the premise of the story of one prominent character that does indeed change Thedas. Say a Tevinter magister who rises through the ranks and starts a Tevinter renaissance or something.

Not the sorry excuse of a PC we got in DA2.

If you take Hawke out of the equation, DA2's event would probably still have ocurred in the same manner. Varric would've gotten someone else as good at being the muscle for the DR expedition, the idol still would've gotten out into Thedas,  Anders still would've blown up the chantry, Meredith would've still been driven insane from the Red lyrium, someone else would've rescued Javaris from the spiders, someone else would've confronted The Arishok.

Basically, Hawke added absolutely nothing to the story, except for the quest All That Remains. That's it.

You are assuming that average joe is the same as Hawke which he or she is not considering you kick the hell out of each and every thing you face.  Quite easily the deep roads ex could have failed very early in with all being killed.  If Anders was in the group he'd be dead as well.   The big conflict between the two sides would have probably boiled over sooner or later but more than likley Meredith would have won and wiped out all mages.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Hawke was too reactive. All he had to do was be proactive. He didn't have to succeed, but he should've attempted to be proactive.

Good grief this. 

He just...sat on his ass until **** hit the fan. Lazy bastard. 

[Beerfish]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Beerfish wrote...
The funny thing is if you look back on other games a lot of people kept saying they were sick of being the hero that saves the world all by themselves each and every game.  A good many people wanted to be just what Hawke is in this game  (whether Bioware pulled that off with success is up for debate) and wanted to be part of the world, not the world saver.

I was one of those and I still am.

Heck, the "For the Grey Wardens!" thing in DA:O annoyed me as heck, because it reeked of hero worship.
But DA2 was worse for me. The concept was excellent, the execution was horrid.

The only part of the execution that sucked in my mind was the bizarre forced ending, other than that I thought they ddid a decent job.  You were certainly quite fallable.