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[Ryzaki]

Dave of Canada wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Anders will never side with the Templars even on a Rivalmance.  I consider this a feature not a bug.

-Polaris

This "feature" is being removed then.

 

Shouldn't be long now. PS3 patch should be today or tomorrow I believe.

That said I really do hope Anders/Justice isn't running around in DA3. I've had enough of his protagonistness in DA2 not to mention his death has already been retconned once. (Yeah Nathaniel's really not gonna know the difference between Anders' body and someone else's.  ) If it happens again that'll just be lame. 

Edit: nevermind. I know better than to get into debates. *goes off to enjoy her game with her broken bird Anders* 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 30 mai 2011 - 09:15 .

[Nameless2345]

IanPolaris wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Anders will never side with the Templars even on a Rivalmance.  I consider this a feature not a bug.

-Polaris

This "feature" is being removed then.

It hasn't been yet, so I don't regard what you say as official.  Talk to me after it's happened. I think having Anders side with the Templars under ANY circumstance would only ruin the one thing that actually makes sense in Act 3.

-Polaris

Yeah, Anders suddenly helping Templars goes like this:  "I just blown up Chantry. Meredith says that she is gonna kill a bunch of completely unrelated mages because people 'will demand blood'. Because I shouldn't have killed Grand Cleric I think I should help insane power-hungry person to kill even more innocents."

Anders becomes either complete monster,helping killing others for the crime HE commited, or completely insane. 

Modifié par Nameless2345, 30 mai 2011 - 08:48 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Ryzaki wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Anders will never side with the Templars even on a Rivalmance.  I consider this a feature not a bug.

-Polaris

This "feature" is being removed then.

 

Shouldn't be long now. PS3 patch should be today or tomorrow I believe. 

Also I played the glitched version. He's only makes the death statement wth funny Hawke's (at least romanced) dialogue choice. On the others he's just down. Didn't seem like he was gonna kill himself afterwards. That said he does have the "please kill me." dialogue (that I can't see because it's bugged <_< ). 

He does probably want to die though. I amend that statement. Hawke's just gonna make him see the fallout of his actions and see if they can work together to pick up the pieces. I just hope Hawke can tell him that killing himself isn't gonna bring anyone back to life. To make up for their deaths he needs to ensure they weren't meaningless. 

That said I really do hope Anders/Justice isn't running around in DA3. I've had enough of his protagonistness in DA2 not to mention his death has already been retconned once. (Yeah Nathaniel's really not gonna know the difference between Anders' body and someone else's.  ) If it happens again that'll just be lame. 

I want to clarify my post (that got bottom paged) a bit.

I don't think Anders wants to kill himself because it'll make up for what he did... rather I think he wants to die because he physically cannot control Justice. If he doesn't die, he'll keep being Dr. Anders and Mr. Vengeance, having blackouts and doing things and not remembering them. If we're wrong and there's a way to separate them, then good, but I doubt they'll do that.

Whether or not I want Anders back in DA3 depends on whether either the Warden or Hawke come back in any significant form. (I believe a non-romanced Anders would be willing to help either of them out, while a romanced Anders would stay with Hawke.) If they're both background characters who we heard mentioned but never see, then it could just be mentioned that Anders is with one of them. If they're significant characters, I'd like to see him hanging around. If Hawke gets his proper protagonist run, I'd like to see Anders as a possible companion.

And I think they've said that if Anders is dead he is dead. But that may not prevent Justice/Vengeance from using him as a meatsuit, just with no vestiges of Anders left inside.

[Ryzaki]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
I want to clarify my post (that got bottom paged) a bit.

I don't think Anders wants to kill himself because it'll make up for what he did... rather I think he wants to die because he physically cannot control Justice. If he doesn't die, he'll keep being Dr. Anders and Mr. Vengeance, having blackouts and doing things and not remembering them. If we're wrong and there's a way to separate them, then good, but I doubt they'll do that.

Whether or not I want Anders back in DA3 depends on whether either the Warden or Hawke come back in any significant form. (I believe a non-romanced Anders would be willing to help either of them out, while a romanced Anders would stay with Hawke.) If they're both background characters who we heard mentioned but never see, then it could just be mentioned that Anders is with one of them. If they're significant characters, I'd like to see him hanging around. If Hawke gets his proper protagonist run, I'd like to see Anders as a possible companion.

And I think they've said that if Anders is dead he is dead. But that may not prevent Justice/Vengeance from using him as a meatsuit, just with no vestiges of Anders left inside.

 

Oh I think they would. Just put a ridculous price on it that makes one pause and go "do I *really* want to do that?"  

I don't want him or Hawke back in Da3. The warden isn't coming back because of BW's hardon for voiced PCs. (excuse the crudeness). 

Ugh I realy don't want to see him or mc. sit on my ass for seven years. In any other DA game. Of course this is personal preference. And I really don't want them to be significant characters because that all but guarantees him being magically resurrected. Unlike the ME team the DA team doesn't seem to believe in Dead is Dead. (Shepard being an obvious exception ). A cameo on the strength of warden Alistair would be nice. They'd be replaced by someone else if they're not on the path/dead. 

That said if I do have to endure Mc. Do nothing but react I wouldn't mind either rival or friendship Anders being a companion. But both rival and friend Anders are pretty high on the crazy meter so I can see him needing to be put down regardless by the end of the DLC or expansion or whatever it is. 

As for Justice running aroun with Anders body. Ugh. That's even worse. It's a cheap way of keeping "Anders" running around. If Justice has to come back he should at least get a new body. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 30 mai 2011 - 09:33 .

[HSHAW]

@Ryzaki You're going to have to explain why Wardens who went through the mirror with Morrigan aren't coming back.

[Ryzaki]

HSHAW wrote...

@Ryzaki You're going to have to explain why Wardens who went through the mirror with Morrigan aren't coming back.

Because they don't have a voice. Duh.  Same reason my Queen Cousland/Mistress isn't coming back. 

Not to mention the sheer amount of variations between Wardens and it becomes impossible to have them come back in anything other than an offscreen mention. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 30 mai 2011 - 10:21 .

[TEWR]

Ryzaki wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Anders will never side with the Templars even on a Rivalmance.  I consider this a feature not a bug.

-Polaris

This "feature" is being removed then.

 

Shouldn't be long now. PS3 patch should be today or tomorrow I believe.

That said I really do hope Anders/Justice isn't running around in DA3. I've had enough of his protagonistness in DA2 not to mention his death has already been retconned once. (Yeah Nathaniel's really not gonna know the difference between Anders' body and someone else's.  ) If it happens again that'll just be lame. 

Edit: nevermind. I know better than to get into debates. *goes off to enjoy her game with her broken bird Anders* 

to be fair, it is hard to recognize a body that's been burned. Anders could've put mage robes on a corpse and just used a fire spell

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
to be fair, it is hard to recognize a body that's been burned. Anders could've put mage robes on a corpse and just used a fire spell

 
Which begs the question why did they assume it was Anders? Especially given with his short story the Wardens knew he was still alive afterwards .

It just makes no sense. 

[erilben]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
to be fair, it is hard to recognize a body that's been burned. Anders could've put mage robes on a corpse and just used a fire spell

 
Which begs the question why did they assume it was Anders? Especially given with his short story the Wardens knew he was still alive afterwards .

It just makes no sense. 

Anders fakes that he dies during the siege on Vigil's Keep. That means he left the Grey Wardens before the end of Awakening, so the short story couldn't have taken place.  Also it makes no sense for the Wardens to take away his cat if was no longer with them.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Anders could have put something he owned on the corpse, like that amulet that guy gave him for being awesome. It would be easy to assume that guy was Anders, in that case. It's true that the short story and cat thing can't happen as well, then... unless I make up something that sounds increasingly implausible. Sigh. Still, it's just an epilogue card, not an on-screen death, so I really don't consider it the same thing as retconning an on-screen death.

As for our Warden, the best I'm hoping for is a cool "We decide what they do on a very basic level, and then we get a cool storytelling/illustrated storybook-style cutscene, showing how it affects everything."

For instance, My Dalish Warden could decide which side of the conflict the Dalish join, and similar things could happen for any other origin. Also, if your Warden is on good terms with Alistair and he is king, you can sway him one way or the other. That way you don't actually see your Warden, or hear them speak, but you decide what they do and see it in a way. Wardens who made the Godbaby can decide what Mor+Godbaby do, possibly. That kind of thing.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 30 mai 2011 - 11:34 .

[Ryzaki]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Anders could have put something he owned on the corpse, like that amulet that guy gave him for being awesome. It would be easy to assume that guy was Anders, in that case. It's true that the short story and cat thing can't happen as well, then... unless I make up something that sounds increasingly implausible. Sigh. Still, it's just an epilogue card, not an on-screen death, so I really don't consider it the same thing as retconning an on-screen death.

As for our Warden, the best I'm hoping for is a cool "We decide what they do on a very basic level, and then we get a cool storytelling/illustrated storybook-style cutscene, showing how it affects everything."

For instance, My Dalish Warden could decide which side of the conflict the Dalish join, and similar things could happen for any other origin. Also, if your Warden is on good terms with Alistair and he is king, you can sway him one way or the other. That way you don't actually see your Warden, or hear them speak, but you decide what they do and see it in a way. Wardens who made the Godbaby can decide what Mor+Godbaby do, possibly. That kind of thing.

 

I do though. So yeah...I mean the epilogue slides to me where there as a "X happened later on." kind of thing so when they set the story 50+ years later. Sadly they didn't do that.  

I doubt that it would lead to too many variables. And yes I know "ah yes 'variables'." DA team isn't the ME team. And of course is the fact that they want there to be more games set in Thedas. Doing something like that throws off the storyline of future games. (which is why they threw out all the old epilogues). They couldn't even keep the story straight from origins to awakening (with the retcon of the US ending). I have little faith in them when it comes from game to game consistency. Now with something like DA2 where there is only a handful of choices to retcon (save the endgame choice) sure there's pretty much no way they can screw that up. 

...I really shouldn't tempt fate though. 

I really don't see that happening as anything but a throwaway line and to me that's just...eh. It might as well not be there. Then of course is the what if the devs want it one way but the player another? Obviously the dev view is gonna win. (like not making Anders a Warden.)  

Edit: That said I'm just complaining and I promised myself no more DA2 debates. So I didn't mean to whine at you.

erilben wrote...
Anders fakes that he dies during the siege on Vigil's Keep. That means he left the Grey Wardens before the end of Awakening, so the short story couldn't have taken place.  Also it makes no sense for the Wardens to take away his cat if was no longer with them.

 

It doesn't. :/ 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 30 mai 2011 - 12:08 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I'll definitely agree that Dragon Age needed more long-term planning (but it's well known that I prefer ME to almost anything, so I'm somewhat biased). That said, I'd also imagine that they've learned from their mistakes, and will make different ones next time.

Having your Warden able to make a few small changes in the world could be handled well. I'll be interested to see how they unbranch this story later on (if the third game actually does have you playing a role in the Mage/Templar war, rather than doing something else entirely). The ME story is pretty much so branched that I don't know HOW they're going to set anything significant in the same universe within several hundred years of ME.

If you are going to determine the outcome of the Mage/Templar war, then having your warden make small changes isn't a problem. If the game ends with the same worldstate, and only 'which lore characters survive and which ones die' varies between endgames, then it's also possible for the Warden to have some pull on the DA:O characters involved.

I'm not hoping for it, but I believe it could be possible. If they manage to weave all stories together smoothly, it will be mind-blowing. At this point I love my Warden more than my Hawke, but I'd rather never know what happened to her than have her spoiled, I suppose.

[TEWR]

didn't you guys see when David Gaider said that DA2 Anders was really Ser Pounce-A-Lot possessed by Justice? =P


That post of his made me laugh so hard.

[TEWR]

I always thought that Awakening used your Wardens so you wouldn't have to go back and play the entire game over again just to say yes to Morrigan. I never saw it as a retcon, just a "We'll save you the trouble incase you want to go this route." type of thing.

[LobselVith8]

IanPolaris wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm always pro-Templar (shock, surprise, awe) but from what I understand, even pro-mages could side with Meredith if they believe it'll be better for mages rights long term. Isn't that the jist of Anders rivalry dialogue if he sides with Meredith?

Anders will never side with the Templars even on a Rivalmance.  I consider this a feature not a bug.

-Polaris

Pro-templar Hawke talks about a revolution that doesn't even exist, since Anders was the one who blew up the Chantry, so I don't find anything that's said in the scene between a pro-templar Hawke and Anders to make any sense. What revolution are they stopping when they're condemning an entire population to death for the actions of the man standing right next to Hawke?

[LobselVith8]

Ryzaki wrote...

HSHAW wrote...

@Ryzaki You're going to have to explain why Wardens who went through the mirror with Morrigan aren't coming back.

Because they don't have a voice. Duh.  Same reason my Queen Cousland/Mistress isn't coming back. 

Not to mention the sheer amount of variations between Wardens and it becomes impossible to have them come back in anything other than an offscreen mention. 

If The Warden returned with Morrigan and his child, he's probably ruling Amaranthine as the Arl and commanding the order as the Warden-Commander, so it wouldn't be too difficult to have a line where he's referenced being in another place. I got the impression from King Alistair and Bann Teegan that The Warden came back a while ago, and even if The Warden disappeared for the same reason Hawke does (as Leliana suspects), it doesn't mean the two characters are going to be in the place (or even that the protagonist of DA3 would see them together).

[TEWR]

Lob I would think they would've replaced the Warden Commander for Amaranthine. I doubt after he disappeared they'd go "Let's keep the spot open incase he returns". Seems like the logical thing the Wardens would do. Hell maybe Nathaniel is the new Warden Commander.


Plus, the reason why Alistair and Teagan mention the Hero of Ferelden is because there weren't any flags from GoA and WH set up for DA2's main game.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 30 mai 2011 - 04:08 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

LobselVith8 wrote...
If The Warden returned with Morrigan and his child, he's probably ruling Amaranthine as the Arl and commanding the order as the Warden-Commander, so it wouldn't be too difficult to have a line where he's referenced being in another place.

He should aim higher than this.
Much higher.

[Persephone]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
If The Warden returned with Morrigan and his child, he's probably ruling Amaranthine as the Arl and commanding the order as the Warden-Commander, so it wouldn't be too difficult to have a line where he's referenced being in another place.

He should aim higher than this.
Much higher.

My Cousland is Queen of Fereldan.

My Cousland is.......well down the road of self destruction.......

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
My Cousland is.......well down the road of self destruction.......

Tragically? Or bittersweetly?

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
My Cousland is.......well down the road of self destruction.......

Tragically? Or bittersweetly?

Both. She's traumatized, borderline suicidal.........(She refused guess who to do the final blow and she also told Morri she wouldn't ask guess who to do the DR, leaving Morri to her own wily ways) We'll see where her story will lead. But the Queenie Cous Cous fluff is out.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
But the Queenie Cous Cous fluff is out.

To play devil's advocate, I don't think Queenie Cous Cous is necessarily a meh childish ending. It could have a lot of depth and could be bittersweet.

But other than that, sounds morbidly interesting. In a good way (if that's even possible).