4350 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

most apostates=maleficarum. Not all. If they truely believed all apostates were malificarum, they would have executed Bethany the moment she surrendered herself.

Actually Meredith wanted to, but Bethany was a Lady Amell and had pull with the Viscount.  Cullen says this explicitly as the only reason why Bethany isn't being killed outright and you along with her for harboring her.  It's another real Chantry Hallmark moment that.

It's also why the put her through the harrowing cold-turkey and with no prep.  The Templars were hoping she'd fail.

-Polaris

[TEWR]

mousestalker wrote...

One salient fact that has been overlooked hitherto is that Meredith has the classic icy blonde hitchcockian hotness. Orsino looks like a Sesame Street character. One of the rules of the Interwebz is 'when in doubt, go with the hot chick'. I think that settles the matter right there.

So.... Meredith's hot and Orsino is Big Bird?

[IanPolaris]

mousestalker wrote...

One salient fact that has been overlooked hitherto is that Meredith has the classic icy blonde hitchcockian hotness. Orsino looks like a Sesame Street character. One of the rules of the Interwebz is 'when in doubt, go with the hot chick'. I think that settles the matter right there.

You jest, but I do think Bioware was using sub-conscious racial cues like you mention to encourage players to side with the Templars.

-Polaris

[EmperorSahlertz]

Most people sided with the mages. Not as overwhelming numbers as last time, but still more (judging from the forums). It can probably be attributed to the underdog-syndrome. We see a suppressed group, and instantly support them. Despite the reasons for suppression.

[TEWR]

Now I'm imagining Orsino going "Today's Right of Annulment was brought to you today by the number 3095 and the letter M. 3095 being the number of mages that have been slaughtered, and M meaning Maleficar!"

If Orsino is big bird, who's cookie monster?

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Most people sided with the mages. Not as overwhelming numbers as last time, but still more (judging from the forums). It can probably be attributed to the underdog-syndrome. We see a suppressed group, and instantly support them. Despite the reasons for suppression.

The fact you are asked quite explicitly to kill every last man, woman, and child in the gallows for something they did not do, naturally has nothing to do with it.

-Polaris

[mousestalker]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

One salient fact that has been overlooked hitherto is that Meredith has the classic icy blonde hitchcockian hotness. Orsino looks like a Sesame Street character. One of the rules of the Interwebz is 'when in doubt, go with the hot chick'. I think that settles the matter right there.

So.... Meredith's hot and Orsino is Big Bird?

Not Big Bird exactly:

[Master Shiori]

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually Meredith wanted to, but Bethany was a Lady Amell and had pull with the Viscount. 

Oh, you mean the Viscount who would never dare go against anything Meredith wanted? And even if he tried we've all seen what happened to his predeccesor when he crossed the templars.

IanPolaris wrote...



Cullen says this explicitly as the only reason why Bethany isn't being killed outright and you along with her for harboring her.  It's another real Chantry Hallmark moment that.

No, Hawke and his family are spared the punishment because Bethany cooperated, meaning she turned herself in. 
Try and actually read what the characters are saying.

IanPolaris wrote...



It's also why the put her through the harrowing cold-turkey and with no prep.  The Templars were hoping she'd fail.

-Polaris

In case you missed that little detail in Origins, mages get no special preparation before undergoing the Harrowing, other than the regular training they received up to that point
They're not even told when their Harrowing will take place or what will happen during that.

Bethany went through the Harrowing just like every other mage is expected to. Though in her case it happened much later then is usual.

[Killjoy Cutter]

IanPolaris wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

One salient fact that has been overlooked hitherto is that Meredith has the classic icy blonde hitchcockian hotness. Orsino looks like a Sesame Street character. One of the rules of the Interwebz is 'when in doubt, go with the hot chick'. I think that settles the matter right there.

You jest, but I do think Bioware was using sub-conscious racial cues like you mention to encourage players to side with the Templars.

-Polaris

Oh for cripe's sake, that's just silly. 

[mousestalker]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

One salient fact that has been overlooked hitherto is that Meredith has the classic icy blonde hitchcockian hotness. Orsino looks like a Sesame Street character. One of the rules of the Interwebz is 'when in doubt, go with the hot chick'. I think that settles the matter right there.

... Did you just call Meredith hot?...

She is Junoesque. She has the unobtainable hauteur that makes you want to break down her barriers and reduce her to begging for mercy. She has the maturity to be in touch with her inner passions. She has the experience to know exactly what she wants and force you to give it to her.

Meredith is hawt.  

[Killjoy Cutter]

Master Shiori wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually Meredith wanted to, but Bethany was a Lady Amell and had pull with the Viscount. 

Oh, you mean the Viscount who would never dare go against anything Meredith wanted? And even if he tried we've all seen what happened to his predeccesor when he crossed the templars.

IanPolaris wrote...



Cullen says this explicitly as the only reason why Bethany isn't being killed outright and you along with her for harboring her.  It's another real Chantry Hallmark moment that.

No, Hawke and his family are spared the punishment because Bethany cooperated, meaning she turned herself in. 
Try and actually read what the characters are saying.

IanPolaris wrote...



It's also why the put her through the harrowing cold-turkey and with no prep.  The Templars were hoping she'd fail.

-Polaris

In case you missed that little detail in Origins, mages get no special preparation before undergoing the Harrowing, other than the regular training they received up to that point
They're not even told when their Harrowing will take place or what will happen during that.

Bethany went through the Harrowing just like every other mage is expected to. Though in her case it happened much later then is usual.

As you allude to, there are always people on both sides of most big ME and DA arguements who seem to have failed utterly to actually pay attention during the game. 

[TEWR]

mousestalker wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

One salient fact that has been overlooked hitherto is that Meredith has the classic icy blonde hitchcockian hotness. Orsino looks like a Sesame Street character. One of the rules of the Interwebz is 'when in doubt, go with the hot chick'. I think that settles the matter right there.

So.... Meredith's hot and Orsino is Big Bird?

Not Big Bird exactly:

oh god now I remember that comparison from another thread. For a time I was able to unsee it. Now I never will.





I can see Orsino doing those things.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 06 mai 2011 - 12:51 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

mousestalker wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

One salient fact that has been overlooked hitherto is that Meredith has the classic icy blonde hitchcockian hotness. Orsino looks like a Sesame Street character. One of the rules of the Interwebz is 'when in doubt, go with the hot chick'. I think that settles the matter right there.

... Did you just call Meredith hot?...

She is Junoesque. She has the unobtainable hauteur that makes you want to break down her barriers and reduce her to begging for mercy. She has the maturity to be in touch with her inner passions. She has the experience to know exactly what she wants and force you to give it to her.

Meredith is hawt.  

Really?  To me she just comes across as a bigot, zealot, and eventual outright monster and raging egomaniac.

[mousestalker]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

oh god now I remember that comparison from another thread. For a time I was able to unsee it. Now I never will.



I can see Orsino doing those things.

Our work here is done then. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Most people sided with the mages. Not as overwhelming numbers as last time, but still more (judging from the forums). It can probably be attributed to the underdog-syndrome. We see a suppressed group, and instantly support them. Despite the reasons for suppression.

The fact you are asked quite explicitly to kill every last man, woman, and child in the gallows for something they did not do, naturally has nothing to do with it.

-Polaris

Wasn't really talking about the Annulment situation. More about the broader situation.

[mousestalker]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

One salient fact that has been overlooked hitherto is that Meredith has the classic icy blonde hitchcockian hotness. Orsino looks like a Sesame Street character. One of the rules of the Interwebz is 'when in doubt, go with the hot chick'. I think that settles the matter right there.

... Did you just call Meredith hot?...

She is Junoesque. She has the unobtainable hauteur that makes you want to break down her barriers and reduce her to begging for mercy. She has the maturity to be in touch with her inner passions. She has the experience to know exactly what she wants and force you to give it to her.

Meredith is hawt.  

Really?  To me she just comes across as a bigot, zealot, and eventual outright monster and raging egomaniac.

All of which translates into a woman made for love. She just needs to be shown how to redirect all that passion. She needs another woman's guiding hand. That is the ultimate failing of the Grand Cleric, imo.

[IanPolaris]

Master Shiori wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually Meredith wanted to, but Bethany was a Lady Amell and had pull with the Viscount. 

Oh, you mean the Viscount who would never dare go against anything Meredith wanted? And even if he tried we've all seen what happened to his predeccesor when he crossed the templars.

Oh bolluxs.  Cullen outright states that the only reason that Bethany is being taken alive AND you aren't being killed/imprisoned for harboring he is because the the Viscount's influence.  That's right from the damned GAME.

IanPolaris wrote...



Cullen says this explicitly as the only reason why Bethany isn't being killed outright and you along with her for harboring her.  It's another real Chantry Hallmark moment that.

No, Hawke and his family are spared the punishment because Bethany cooperated, meaning she turned herself in. 
Try and actually read what the characters are saying.

Try it yourself and this time go throught ALL the dialog trees.  If you pick the diplomatic response, Cullen specifically says that it's the viscount's influence that is keeping her and you alive.

IanPolaris wrote...



It's also why the put her through the harrowing cold-turkey and with no prep.  The Templars were hoping she'd fail.

-Polaris

In case you missed that little detail in Origins, mages get no special preparation before undergoing the Harrowing, other than the regular training they received up to that point
They're not even told when their Harrowing will take place or what will happen during that.

Yes and no.  You're right that mages are given no special prep (which is a point of contention in it;'s own right but moving on), but USUALLY mages are permitted to settle down and given some time before undergoing a very strenuous and often fatal test.  What they did to Bethany was cruel and the Templars were clearly hoping she'd fail.

Bethany went through the Harrowing just like every other mage is expected to. Though in her case it happened much later then is usual.

Not exactly.  She was RUSHED into it almost immediately upon capture and we are specifically told in the game that this is NOT normal.  She was pushed into it when still stressed from being sent to the gallows.  Why?  The Templars wanted her to fail.

-Polaris

[EmperorSahlertz]

Of course they wanted her to fail. She was an appostate who had defied their rules. They wanted to make a point that only the Circle trains their Mages the right way.

Luckily, Bethany had her trainning from an ex-circle mage. So she would have recieved largely the same trainning as the other Circle mages (Harrowing barred I'm presumming).

[Killjoy Cutter]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Is there ever any proof that Meredith tranquilizes mages that act out? Karl is the only one I can remember, but that's one mage in six years.

Three of the recaptured Starkhaven mages are randomly chosen to be Tranquilized, IIRC.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Is there ever any proof that Meredith tranquilizes mages that act out? Karl is the only one I can remember, but that's one mage in six years.

Three of the recaptured Starkhaven mages are randomly chosen to be Tranquilized, IIRC.

Those aren't illegal however. The Starkhaven mages had tried to escape, and had to be punished. It is legal to use the Rite of Tranquility as a punishment for mages who prove themselves unwilling to serve the Circle.

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Of course they wanted her to fail. She was an appostate who had defied their rules. They wanted to make a point that only the Circle trains their Mages the right way.

Luckily, Bethany had her trainning from an ex-circle mage. So she would have recieved largely the same trainning as the other Circle mages (Harrowing barred I'm presumming).

Actually I wouldn't be suprised if Bethany (and Mage-Hawke) got extensive training in how to recognize and deal with demons.  It would explain why neither seems suspectible to going crazy because of the thin veil and explains why both are able to handle very dangerous situations with magic and come away clean under very non-ideal circumstances.   If so, then the circle needs to seriously rethink how they train mages (or don't train them) to deal with demons/harrowing.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Those aren't illegal however. The Starkhaven mages had tried to escape, and had to be punished. It is legal to use the Rite of Tranquility as a punishment for mages who prove themselves unwilling to serve the Circle.

Not exactly.  It's not illegal if they are apprentices or apostates that haven't been harrowed.  If they have been harrowed than even in cases of open rebellion, the Templars need either extraordinary circumstances (Right of Annulment) or the First Enchanter's explicit OK...and even this later stipulation is a dubvious (and naked) retcon by DG.

-Polaris

[Killjoy Cutter]

mousestalker wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

One salient fact that has been overlooked hitherto is that Meredith has the classic icy blonde hitchcockian hotness. Orsino looks like a Sesame Street character. One of the rules of the Interwebz is 'when in doubt, go with the hot chick'. I think that settles the matter right there.

... Did you just call Meredith hot?...

She is Junoesque. She has the unobtainable hauteur that makes you want to break down her barriers and reduce her to begging for mercy. She has the maturity to be in touch with her inner passions. She has the experience to know exactly what she wants and force you to give it to her.

Meredith is hawt.  

Really?  To me she just comes across as a bigot, zealot, and eventual outright monster and raging egomaniac.

All of which translates into a woman made for love. She just needs to be shown how to redirect all that passion. She needs another woman's guiding hand. That is the ultimate failing of the Grand Cleric, imo.

Oh...  I thought it meant that she needed a locked padded room and heavy medication for the rest of her life...

[Killjoy Cutter]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Is there ever any proof that Meredith tranquilizes mages that act out? Karl is the only one I can remember, but that's one mage in six years.

Three of the recaptured Starkhaven mages are randomly chosen to be Tranquilized, IIRC.

Those aren't illegal however. The Starkhaven mages had tried to escape, and had to be punished. It is legal to use the Rite of Tranquility as a punishment for mages who prove themselves unwilling to serve the Circle.

As far as I know, if a mage has passes his Harrowing, it's against Chanrty law to Tranquilize him.

[Killjoy Cutter]

IanPolaris wrote...

In case you missed that little detail in Origins, mages get no special preparation before undergoing the Harrowing, other than the regular training they received up to that point
They're not even told when their Harrowing will take place or what will happen during that.

Yes and no.  You're right that mages are given no special prep (which is a point of contention in it;'s own right but moving on), but USUALLY mages are permitted to settle down and given some time before undergoing a very strenuous and often fatal test.  What they did to Bethany was cruel and the Templars were clearly hoping she'd fail.

Bethany went through the Harrowing just like every other mage is expected to. Though in her case it happened much later then is usual.

Not exactly.  She was RUSHED into it almost immediately upon capture and we are specifically told in the game that this is NOT normal.  She was pushed into it when still stressed from being sent to the gallows.  Why?  The Templars wanted her to fail.

-Polaris

When is this stated? 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 06 mai 2011 - 01:18 .