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[Ryzaki]

IanPolaris wrote...
You are metagaming.  When you made the decision, there is NO reason to assume that Meredith is going to tolerate anything less than total execution of all circle mages and that IS the law.

-Polaris

Uh...no? 

RoA aren't normally called because a rogue apostate blew up a Chantry. From the very second she called it the RoA wasn' a normal RoA. 

And when did I say Meredith wasn't going to tolerate anything less? She wouldn't. That doesn't mean no one else would. 

[IanPolaris]

LobselVith8 wrote...
As for the emancipation of the Circle, not only does the Chantry say no, but Leliana makes a vague reference about what happened in Ferelden in "Faith." I know IanPolaris posed a question about this to Gaider, and he didn't provide an answer except to say we didn't know, but it doesn't sound good.

Personally I think DG is just waiting to show us just how evil magic is and how underhanded Fereldan mages are once again.  I have utter comtempt and no faith in DG since our last conversation.

Polaris

[Silfren]

IanPolaris wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

She's free of the suspicion of being a bloodmage. And as for te former 2 plenty of things which should cause psychological trauma in Dragon Age don't tend to. But even if it does. She'll live. 

Um.  Not if you're going with the logic that all the Circle mages are suspected of blood magic or whatever rationale is used to justify the Annulment.  She's part of the Circle, so if it follows that the Circle must be purged, that includes her.  If the other mages are under suspicion of blood magic, then so is she.  And in the end, you see that Meredith is only too happy to follow through with killing Bethany.  Hawke has the option to stop her, but there it is.  If you're claiming that the Circle must be annulled because the mere suspicion of blood magic condemns them as being beyond redemption, then you can't exempt Bethany from that ruling.

You can if you're a complete hypocrit and only used the Templars to try go gain power for yourself.

-Polaris

Sure, but I was focused on the assertion that Bethany was free of the suspicion of blood magic.  If the rationale being used for Annulment is that its suspected that some Circle mages are using blood magic and this means the entire Circle must be killed in order to wipe them out...well, that includes Bethany.  Either the entire Circle must be wiped out in order to ensure that blood magic is eliminated, in a "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out scenario, or you have to extend consideration to all possible innocents, not just Bethany.

[TEWR]

Ryzaki wrote...

She's free of the suspicion of being a bloodmage. And as for te former 2 plenty of things which should cause psychological trauma in Dragon Age don't tend to. But even if it does. She'll live. 

Psychological trauma differs from one person to the next. It sure as hell affected Cullen differently than it did some of the other Templars that were saved.

Ryzaki wrote...
And those books on necromancy and bloodmagic were still forbidden books (take Aveline along and she'll say the Templars would want those confiscated). Quentin was inane sure but Orsino had to have an inkling because Quentin was sending him research on what he was doing. So either Orsino is guilty or Elthina is blameless. Can't have it both ways. As for the letter. If it was significantly aged I'm sure there would've been mention of it. 

Were they forbidden? Or was Aveline's comment meant to say that the Templars will want the books that should be in the Circle's library back? Did someone state that those books were illegal? For the record I always take her with me.

I'm not saying Orsino is innocent. He is guilty of helping an apostate. But people are too quick to assume that just because he was helping an apostate means he knew Quentin's intentions and everything else. He tells you that Quentin's research was too evil before he says that he has no choice to go Harvester.

I think he thought Quentin was just trying to do some research away from the Chantry's eyesight, and Orsino supported this at first. But when he discovered what Quentin had done, he wished he had never been a part of it. And due to his conflict with Meredith, he was afraid that it would provoke her ire into calling for the RoA.

And just because something is ancient doesn't mean there's always going to be a stamped date on when it was written.

Not to mention bloodmage or not Orsino was helping a apostate bloodmage do who knows what without knowing? That's even worse .

He lives there and while the guard does their job properly regardless they have less collateral damage to deal with if Hawke kill the mages fighting the templars in the city. Anders committed an act of terrorism. That was it. The mess started when Meredith went bonkers. So yes while Meredith's invocation of the RoA wasn't appropriate it was justified. There are bloodmages in the circle, they are using bloodthralls and terrorising citizens. 

Justified? Hardly. Legal yes, but not justified. Anders is right there and he was willing to die for what he did. She could've taken him to Hightown and said "This is your criminal! Do what you will with him!"

You mean those bloodmages that I fought that charmed templars into fighting me? Those mages won't cause any damage? 

I think that was more the Desire Demon that did that. A desire demon can enthrall people easily, as we were shown in Broken Circle, Repentance, etc..

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 11 mai 2011 - 10:44 .

[IanPolaris]

Ryzaki wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
You are metagaming.  When you made the decision, there is NO reason to assume that Meredith is going to tolerate anything less than total execution of all circle mages and that IS the law.

-Polaris

Uh...no? 

RoA aren't normally called because a rogue apostate blew up a Chantry. From the very second she called it the RoA wasn' a normal RoA. 

And when did I say Meredith wasn't going to tolerate anything less? She wouldn't. That doesn't mean no one else would. 

Actually the first Annulment was called because mages in an Antivan circle protected their own against murderous templars, and closed ranks.  ONE abomination got out and killed 70 people over the space of a year (something easily replicated by a serial killer without magic) and for that, the Chantry gave grand clerics the right to kill off all towers in the face of future intransigence.

Honestly, the Fereldan case was a bit of an exception.  Most Annulments are much more like the ones in Kirkwall.

-Polaris

[Ryzaki]

GavrielKay wrote...
If you believe that you can tell who the innocent and guilty mages are, and if Cullen believes that he can tell who the innocent and guilty mages are - then the Right of Annulment has been called illegally.  The RoA is only used where every single mare in the circle must be considered beyond redemption - either because you can't tell the difference or because the bad ones have already killed/blood magiced the good ones into thralls.

If you think Hawke can pick and choose who's innocent or guilty then you should not be in favor of the RoA but rather of a DAO style clean up where we save those we can and kill the rest.

Except my Hawke can't. The only thing he knows is that there's one sure guilty mage in the circle and that's the high ranking mage that gave Quentin the information. Information enough to kill 3 women (and who knows how many else in experimental testing). Everyone else is collateral damage except for Bethany because they feel (and know her well enough) that she's not a bloodmage. It's a blindspot as I said. She shouldn't be exempt but because she's family and they love er she is.

It's hyporiscy but most people are hypocritical in one way or another. 

Though...really you shouldn't tell someone they should be/shouldn't be in favor of something. If someone made their choice let them. It's their choice to make. 

[GavrielKay]

Ryzaki wrote...

Though...really you shouldn't tell someone they should be/shouldn't be in favor of something. If someone made their choice let them. It's their choice to make. 

Fair enough. 

But will you admit that it is only meta-gaming which allows you to choose the Templar side thinking that you'll save Bethany (or anyone, considering Bethany doesn't have to be there)?  Nothing in the lore or Meredith's personality gives you a reason to think anyone will be spared, innocent or otherwise.  Do you want to spare the innocents and go along with the RoA anyway?

[LobselVith8]

@EmperorSahlertz, Gaider didn't say the Chantry would take the child if they demonstrated magical ability, he said the children of Grey Warden mages aren't taken because they aren't beholden to Chantry rules like the Circle mages are. Circle mages lose their children to the Chantry, but not Grey Warden mages.

[Ryzaki]

Edit; URGH I HATE THE STUPID LOGINNG ME OUTFEATURE *SCREAMS*  IT ATE MY POST! 

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Psychological trauma differs from one person to the next. It sure as hell affected Cullen differently than it did some of the other Templars that were saved.

And the same may apply for Bethany. She may be negatively affected or not. She seemed fine to me when she rejoins Hawke's crew. 

 
Were they forbidden? Or was Aveline's comment meant to say that the Templars will want the books that should be in the Circle's library back? Did someone state that those books were illegal? For the record I always take her with me.

I'm pretty sure I heard something about illegal. I need to replay the game to be sure. 

I'm not saying Orsino is innocent. He is guilty of helping an apostate. But people are too quick to assume that just because he was helping an apostate means he knew Quentin's intentions and everything else. He tells you that Quentin's research was too evil before he says that he has no choice to go Harvester.

So do you or do you not think Elthina is guilty of some of the wrongdoings of the templars? Because that's a similar scenario to Orsino. 

I think he thought Quentin was just trying to do some research away from the Chantry's eyesight, and Orsino supported this at first. But when he discovered what Quentin had done, he wished he had never been a part of it. And due to his conflict with Meredith, he was afraid that it would provoke her ire into calling for the RoA.

And just because something is ancient doesn't mean there's always going to be a stamped date on when it was written.

Except Orsino's letter says nothing of the sort. It is eager for more information. And I don't know about you but if I was sending a man who recently lost his wife books about bloodmagic and necromancy and he gave me a ritual on how to use fresh corpses to change into a harvester I'd stop helping him. Not ask for more information. 

As for ancient it doesn't need astamped date. Just to be old and yellowing with faded lettering. 

Justified? Hardly. Legal yes, but not justified. Anders is right there and he was willing to die for what he did. She could've taken him to Hightown and said "This is your criminal! Do what you will with him!" 

I see it as justified. Though she really should've killed Anders and the only thatmakes me think she didn't kill him was Dev blocking to give the player choice. (Imagine the outrage if Meredith had killed Anders and took the choice out of the players hands. We get few enough choices as is). 

I think that was more the Desire Demon that did that. A desire demon can enthrall people easily, as we were shown in Broken Circle, Repentance, etc..

And the desire demon just popped out of the ground? The demon enthralls people because they fall for its tricks. Something mages are trained not to do. The demon offers a deal and if one is weak willed enough (like Hawke's whole damn party <_< ) they fall for it. The mage probably took the demon's deal and then screwed everyone else over. (Like Lady Harimann). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 mai 2011 - 11:02 .

[Ryzaki]

GavrielKay wrote...
Fair enough.  

But will you admit that it is only meta-gaming which allows you to choose the Templar side thinking that you'll save Bethany (or anyone, considering Bethany doesn't have to be there)?  Nothing in the lore or Meredith's personality gives you a reason to think anyone will be spared, innocent or otherwise.  Do you want to spare the innocents and go along with the RoA anyway?

No. One can be an optimist and choose the templar ending thinking they'll save Bethany. Just like one can be an optimist and think that siding with the mages means they'll survive. Nothing in game suggests that's gonna happen but it does.  

Yes most of my Hawkes want to spare anyone who will surrender and go along with the RoA. If they can't...they can't. They're still gonna try. 

And a few of my Hawkes couldn't care less about innocent or guilty and just want revenge for their mother's death. No matter what collateral damage ensues.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 mai 2011 - 11:04 .

[GavrielKay]

Ryzaki wrote...

No. One can be an optimist and choose the templar ending thinking they'll save Bethany. Just like one can be an optimist and think that siding with the mages means they'll survive. Nothing in game suggests that's gonna happen but it does.  

Well, OK, but if you're going to make assumptions and guesses and declarations about what Hawke does off-screen and against lore, then we'll have a very interesting discussion about how much Elthina knew and didn't fix.

Edit:  fixed spelling.  And this was meant to be funny, not an attack.  Just, yeah, you can always role play anything happening off screen, so we could have all kinds of fun with that tangent 

Modifié par GavrielKay, 11 mai 2011 - 11:08 .

[Ryzaki]

GavrielKay wrote...
Well, OK, but if you're going to make assumptions and guesses and declaratios about what Hawke does off-screen and against lore, then we'll have a very interesting discussion about how much Elthina knew and didn't fix.

 

You mean I can't say that Hawke might've been an stupid optimist? 

Really? 

I can't claim my own character's characterization? 

Seriously? 

Now I'm not saying he was gonna be right. But my Hawkes can think whatever the hell they want. True or not. 

As for Elthina. I'm not sure on her. I don't know how much she was/wasn't aware of. I find her guilty but that's only because it was her job to be aware and she either wasn't or ignored the crimes being committed. 

The two aren't parallel in anyway. One is my character who can vary widely from one playthrough to another. The other is a set character who doesn't vary from one playthrough to the next. Her personality, gender, and attitude doesn't change. 

Hawke's can. 

The two aren't comparable. 

And I'm not talking about offscreen. I'm talking about their trains of thought. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 mai 2011 - 11:10 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

IanPolaris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
You are metagaming.  When you made the decision, there is NO reason to assume that Meredith is going to tolerate anything less than total execution of all circle mages and that IS the law.

-Polaris

Uh...no? 

RoA aren't normally called because a rogue apostate blew up a Chantry. From the very second she called it the RoA wasn' a normal RoA. 

And when did I say Meredith wasn't going to tolerate anything less? She wouldn't. That doesn't mean no one else would. 

Actually the first Annulment was called because mages in an Antivan circle protected their own against murderous templars, and closed ranks.  ONE abomination got out and killed 70 people over the space of a year (something easily replicated by a serial killer without magic) and for that, the Chantry gave grand clerics the right to kill off all towers in the face of future intransigence.

Honestly, the Fereldan case was a bit of an exception.  Most Annulments are much more like the ones in Kirkwall.

-Polaris

Oh? And who gave you a full source on what caused the other 16 annulments?

[TEWR]

Ryzaki wrote...

Edit; URGH I HATE THE STUPID LOGINNG ME OUTFEATURE *SCREAMS*  IT ATE MY POST! 

And the same may apply for Bethany. She may benegatively affected or not. She seemed fine to me when she rejoins Hawke's crew. .

Same. It keeps doing that to me. I have to hit Ctrl + C before I submit just in case. It's really infuriating. At any rate, it's probably one of those down the line type of things. She may seem fine now (just as Cullen did at first) but it may negatively affect her outlook on things down the line. So for now, neither of us is right.

 
I'm pretty sure I heard something about illegal. I need to replay the game to be sure. 

I'm replaying the game too, but I'm fairly certain the word "illegal" wasn't used

So do you or do you not thik Elthina is guilty of some of the wrongdoings of the templars? Because that's a similar scenario to Orsino. 

I think she's guilty of gross inaction, which puts her on the same level of culpability as the Templars. At the very least a little less so. I don't think she should've stayed neutral. It's her duty to protect the mages too. She wasn't protecting them. She was saying "We will wait until the Maker intervenes". Do I think she deserved to die? No. Am I upset that she was killed, so much so that I'm screaming "MAKER NOOOO!!!!!"? No.

But as another poster said (I think it was Xzilhra? I don't know I can't remember what his/her name was exactly), it's possible Elthina thought that the only way she could truly help was by being removed from the picture completely. That she expected to be killed and knew that if she was gone, Meredith would invoke the RoA. If that's the case (and a few lines seem to support this theory) then she isn't guilty in my mind.

Except Orsino's letter says nothing of the sort. It is eager for more information. And I don't know about you but if I was sending a man who recently lost his wife books about bloodmagic and necromancy and he gave me a ritual on how to use fresh corpses to change into a harvester I'd stop helping him. Not ask for more information. 

As for ancient it doesn't need astamped date. Just to be old and yellowing with faded lettering. 

It's possible Quentin withheld information. Though I agree, the knowledge of how to turn into a Harvester (assuming it was actually in the letter that Orsino responded to) would make me step back and say "Whoa there senor!"

I see it as justified. Though she really should've killed Anders and the only thatmakes me think she didn't kill him was Dev blocking to give the player choice. (Imagine the outrage if Meredith had killed Anders and took the choice out of the players hands. We get few enough choices as is). 

I see your point. I wouldn't be able to stay on the forums if that was the case due to all the hate it would generate. I think there should've been the option though to hand Anders over to Meredith.

And the desire demon just popped out of the ground? The demon enthralls people because they fall for its tricks. Something mages are trained not to do. The demon offers a deal and if one is weak willed enough (lik your whole damn party  ) they fall for it. The mage probably took the demon's deal and then screwed everyone else over. (Like Lady Harimann). 

A desire demon nurtures whatever desire a person wants. In this case, it seemed to nurture the desire to live. And this is Kirkwall remember? This is the place with the weakest Veil in Thedas, where Demons can easily pop up. When the Veil is torn, demons are able to move through (Warden's Keep, The Blackmarsh, etc..). And not all mages are strong enough to resist temptation

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 11 mai 2011 - 11:14 .

[GavrielKay]

Ryzaki wrote...

I can't claim my own character's characterization? 

Seriously? 

Yeah, yeah.  Perhaps you started to reply before I edited my post.  You can play your Hawke however you like.  Though the rest of us won't know that's what you're doing if you don't say so before making arguments supported by your particular role playing.

I don't have any personal investment in it at all, just curious what people are thinking about when they make this or that game choice.

As long as we're all having fun exchanging ideas, it's all good.

No attack intended.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Anything interesting or....new?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...
Well, OK, but if you're going to make assumptions and guesses and declaratios about what Hawke does off-screen and against lore, then we'll have a very interesting discussion about how much Elthina knew and didn't fix.

 

You mean I can't say that Hawke might've been an stupid optimist? 

When it comes to Hawke, just having "stupid" in there makes it all accurate.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Same. It keeps doing that to me. I have to hit Ctrl + C before I submit just in case. It's really infuriating. At any rate, it's probably one of those down the line type of things. She may seem fine now (just as Cullen did at first) but it may negatively affect her outlook on things down the line. So for now, neither of us is right.

What browser are you using? I'm using the latest Opera. I don't know why it does this.  

True. I actually hope for some negatve impact. As it is Bethany's...too peaceful. I want some RAGE. 

 
I'm replaying the game too, but I'm fairly certain the word "illegal" wasn't used

Maybe it was banned? I don't know...I know Aveline mentioned the templars wanting them confisicated. And Anders' also mentions the templars not wanting someoneto have the books. Going by that I'd say they were illegal or only meant for certain hands (like Orsino's). 

I think she's guilty of gross inaction, which puts her on the same level of culpability as the Templars. At the very least a little less so. I don't think she should've stayed neutral. It's her duty to protect the mages too. She wasn't protecting them. She was saying "We will wait until the Maker intervenes". Do I think she deserved to die? No. Am I upset that she was killed, so much so that I'm screaming "MAKER NOOOO!!!!!"? No.

Maker no?  Ah Seb. Your misery amuses me so. I find her guilty of not doing her damn job. She didn't deserve to die for it (no one deserves to be killed other than those that kill others) but she should've been fired a long time ago. 

But as another poster said (I think it was Xzilhra? I don't know I can't remember what his/her name was exactly), it's possible Elthina thought that the only way she could truly help was by being removed from the picture completely. That she expected to be killed and knew that if she was gone, Meredith would invoke the RoA. If that's the case (and a few lines seem to support this theory) then she isn't guilty in my mind.

That's kind of depressing but fits in with he whole "the greatest thing one can do is sacrifice themself for another" thing. 

It's possible Quentin withheld information. Though I agree, the knowledge of how to turn into a Harvester (assuming it was actually in the letter that Orsino responded to) would make me step back and say "Whoa there senor!"

Yeah it's a bit iffy. Orsino really shouldn't have been helping him in the first place. And the whole bloodmagic and necromancy and I can't really buy Orsino being ignorant. He's either a villian or a fool and frankly I rather him be a villian...then again he's still kind of a fool with turning into Harvester and attacking his own allies. <_<

I see your point. I wouldn't be able to stay on the forums if that was the case due to all the hate it would generate. I think there should've been the option though to hand Anders over to Meredith.

NERD RAGE.  

That said yes I would've liked Meredith to atleast attempt to kill Anders. Maybe have Hawke stop her if the player wanted to. 

A desire demon nurtures whatever desire a person wants. In this case, it seemed to nurture the desire to live. And this is Kirkwall remember? This is the place with the weakest Veil in Thedas, where Demons can easily pop up. When the Veil is torn, demons are able to move through (Warden's Keep, The Blackmarsh, etc..). And not all mages are strong enough to resist temptation

My issue with that is the mages are taught time and time again that demons will always trip you up. They know this. They've faced this before (the harrowing) and yet they do it anyway! I give the non-mage companions a little more leeway because they're not used to it. But...Merrill has no excuse. 

As for not being strong enough to resist temptation that is true. The problem istheir inability to resist affects far more than just themselves so I will condemn them for it. What they did as only human and its understandable however I still can't be neutral on it because they endanger others with their actions. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 mai 2011 - 11:24 .

[Ryzaki]

GavrielKay wrote...
Yeah, yeah.  Perhaps you started to reply before I edited my post.  You can play your Hawke however you like.  Though the rest of us won't know that's what you're doing if you don't say so before making arguments supported by your particular role playing.

I don't have any personal investment in it at all, just curious what people are thinking about when they make this or that game choice.

As long as we're all having fun exchanging ideas, it's all good.

No attack intended.

That's kind of why I said my Hawke hoped he would be able to save mages. Hope kind of implies a thought..at least I thought so. Sorry for not being clearer. 

As for my hopeful Hawkes the only mages they feel bad for cutting down are those mages fighting the templars in lowtown. They're the one group where shades and the like don't pop up. 

And sorry for jumping down your throat. It's all good. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 mai 2011 - 11:29 .

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...
Well, OK, but if you're going to make assumptions and guesses and declaratios about what Hawke does off-screen and against lore, then we'll have a very interesting discussion about how much Elthina knew and didn't fix.

 

You mean I can't say that Hawke might've been an stupid optimist? 

When it comes to Hawke, just having "stupid" in there makes it all accurate.

I do try to stick close to canon.  

[GavrielKay]

Ryzaki wrote...

As for not being strong enough to resist temptation that is true. The problem istheir inability to resist affects far more than just themselves so I will condemn them for it. What they did as only human and its understandable however I still can't be neutral on it because they endanger others with their actions. 

That's my problem with Merrill and the idea that she is putting only herself at risk.  If she succumbs and becomes an abomination in the alienage, there's going to be carnage.

[LobselVith8]

Ryzaki wrote...

But... Merrill has no excuse.

Merrill warns for Hawke to be careful if he's going to deal with demons. She is willing to kill the Profane Abomination in the Deep Roads if Hawke asks her to, and we see her proficiently using blood magic and not becoming an abomination for several years. I'd say her willingness to put her life on the line regarding Audacity had to do with how important she saw the restoration of the Eluvian. And the Dalish aren't Andrastian, so they don't view the denizens of the Fade in terms of spirits and demons according to Andrastian lore (as Anders points out to Merrill), but simply as spirits.

[LobselVith8]

GavrielKay wrote...

That's my problem with Merrill and the idea that she is putting only herself at risk.

Merrill asks Hawke to kill her if she becomes an abomination. Regardless of how you view Hawke, he does have a reputation for killing, which includes abominations and the most powerful of the Pride Demons. I'm not exactly sure what dangers she faced in dealing with a demon who was trapped inside a totem by ancient elven magic, since Marethari thought that Audacity would escape from the Eluvian being restored.

[Ryzaki]

GavrielKay wrote...
That's my problem with Merrill and the idea that she is putting only herself at risk.  If she succumbs and becomes an abomination in the alienage, there's going to be carnage.

That's the main reason I can't friend Merrill. If she was living in cabin in the wilderness completely isolated I wouldn't give a hoot aout her doing what she does. Instead she does it close to where others are living (in the alienage and extremely close to her clan.) 

It's like she doesn't think. 

"Oh but Hawke'll stop me!" 

Uh...honey. You forget that stone throw ability you have? The one where you can f*cking teleport. 

How exactly is Hawke supposed to stop you when you can outrun him! 

And that's not even going into the fact that the demon would have her knowledge of Hawke's weakness/strengths and would know to *avoid* certain people. With Feyrniel it becomes clear abominations are capable of thought. 

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill warns for Hawke to be careful if he's going to deal with demons. She is willing to kill the Profane Abomination in the Deep Roads if Hawke asks her to, and we see her proficiently using blood magic and not becoming an abomination for several years. I'd say her willingness to put her life on the line regarding Audacity had to do with how important she saw the restoration of the Eluvian. And the Dalish aren't Andrastian, so they don't view the denizens of the Fade in terms of spirits and demons according to Andrastian lore (as Anders points out to Merrill), but simply as spirits.

Yeah and then proceeds to ignore her own advice. 

And of course she's willing to kill the Profane Abomination. That's nothing special consering Hawke can get Anders to help give mages up to the templars and what not. 

And spirits or not she knows they're dangerous and that they'll take over her body and cause destruction. Yet she deals with them anyways and in mostly a foolish reckless manner. Why yes it's a good idea to fix the mirror that a demon taught you how to purify. Nothing can go wrong wth that. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 mai 2011 - 11:37 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

LobselVith8 wrote...
 Regardless of how you view Hawke, he does have a reputation for killing, which includes abominations and the most powerful of the Pride Demons.

Well a Sarebaas almost killed him in Act 2.

Speaking of which, maybe someone can RP a Hawke that sides with Meredith out of debt. She saved his life, so like a Wookie, he thinks he should help her or at least not fight her.