4350 réponses à ce sujet

[GavrielKay]

We've spent 80 pages debating the evils of a virtual world, and then I go back to the real world and read this:

http://www.cnn.com/2...dex.html?hpt=C2

Blech.

[TEWR]

That's beyond disturbingly and sickeningly (is that a word?) horrific.

[GavrielKay]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

That's beyond disturbingly and sickeningly (is that a word?) horrific.

Us modern Westerners sometimes feel guilty for running roughshod all over tribal traditions, but that's one tradition I'd like to see stamped out forever.

My last few playthroughs I've managed to get everyone to full friendship or rivalriy before the end - so I end up telling a few to just follow along and jump in when they can.

[Ryzaki]

GavrielKay wrote...

We've spent 80 pages debating the evils of a virtual world, and then I go back to the real world and read this:

http://www.cnn.com/2...dex.html?hpt=C2

Blech.

*mouth moves but no sounds come out*

 

...are you kidding me? What kind of barbarbic **** is that?!? Edit: And no I don't care if I'm being rude. That's barbaric! 

Pardon my language...BUT WHAT THE HELL. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 mai 2011 - 04:29 .

[Deztyn]

Silfren wrote...

Deztyn wrote...

In places like Denerim or Kirkwall it might be fine. But rural areas with only a few hundred people per town at most? At the very least you're looking at boarding schools. And given the length of time involved, slow communications and dangers of travel it would still invite the "You can't have my children-- oops, she's an abomination kill her please before the whole village goes!" type situation as surely as the Circle system does.

This is entirely possible.  There's no perfect solution that will mean that nothing bad will ever happen no matter what.  That doesn't mean that there are aren't far better solutions than the current system.  (Edited to fix a typo in order to clarify).

Also, I think a lot of families would be far less inclined to hide their mage child from being discovered and taken away if they didn't have to fear that they'd never see that child again.  I'm not claiming that no parent would ever be dead against losing their child for even a short time, but I honestly don't think there's much reason to claim things wouldn't be substantially different.  Yes, the question of time, communication, and travel would cause problems, but a system that involved taking children to be trained, without also involving lifelong imprisonment, would be far and away better.

I don't think it makes much practical difference. Technically there's nothing outright forbidding a mage from ever talking to their family again, or Bethany wouldn't be able to send letters and get visits from Mama Hawke and Gamlen. I've heard that a mage character from Witch Hunt also mentions keeping in contact with his family.

And in a society like Thedas children aren't just children, they're usually workers, especially among the lower classes. Hell, my grandmother was one of fourteen children and they all worked the family farm as kids. That was only about half a century ago. That's another factor that would influence people's willingness to part with their children.

That isn't to say that abominations would never, ever happen.  But, um, they don't never, ever happen even with the Circles as they exist, do they? 

No. But either they're dealt with swiftly, or they're the result of a failure to follow the law. Like Amelia, Connor and Olivia.

Forcing mages into slavery serves only to create an environment under which some mages would actively seek out demons in a bid to freedom.  Allowing them to live free removes one particular temptation. 

Removes one temptation, but exposes mages to others. Power itself is a temptation and everyone wants something they can't have.

Silfren wrote...

Problem being that if you support the templars, that includes wanting to slaughter the people that Bethany's lived with for several years, including young mages she's mentoring...and, um, Bethany herself.  You can talk Meredith out of executing Bethany, but the fact remains that if you support Annulment, you support the slaughter of the Circle in its entirety.  It's hardly okay to decide that your sister is worth sparing while the others are not.

And if you are mage, supporting the mages means turning against your brother and killing the people that he's lived and trained with for years. That argument works both ways.

2.
If you cared for your mother, again siding with templers is right way. On quest the all that remains, you see clearly that Orsino supported that mage ( now forgot his bloody name) that killed your mother. Orsino sent him all he needed and wanted to be kept updated

That requires meta-gaming knowledge.  The character of Hawke only knows that someone who signs their name "O" gave Quentin books.  Also, what's known is that Orsino supported Quentin's research, not that he knowingly supported serial-killing.  We learn afterward that Orsino kept mum on things because he knew it would give Meredith ammunition.  But that doesn't translate to his having knowingly supported murder.

Wait. Wait. Wait.

Orsino collaborates with Quinten on his project. Provides texts on necromancy. Mentions in his letter that he finds his research fascinating. Refers to Quentin's research later as something that was too evil and too dangerous to use. Uses that research in the end to perform a blood magic ritual that requires the sacrifices of multiple mages. But he's innocent! There's no way he knew his old buddy was killing people!

Elthina on the other hand was totally guilty of ignoring the specific abuses committed by specific templars because Hawke knows about them!

How does that logic work?

[GavrielKay]

Ryzaki wrote...

Pardon my language...BUT WHAT THE HELL. 

Indeed.  I wish I didn't believe there were still people who thought that way.

Maybe we need a few of those horrific death raining mages in the real world 

[Deztyn]

GavrielKay wrote...

Deztyn wrote...

I also distinguish between bad things happening due to a failure of the circle/chanty/templar system and bad things happening because hey, It's a crapsack world.

The circle isn't some random dark alley where it's your fault if you ventured in at 3 am with no protection. 

The mages are held hostage for the express purpose of the greater good.  The Chantry/Templars created the circles and have a responsibility to keep the imprisoned mages safe.

Yes.

[Alexander1136]

yogolol wrote...

 I don`t see how anyone could justify siding with Meredith at the end of the game, unless if you wanted to choose the "evil"" option. I`m ok if you think Templars are needed and I think they needed in a very minor way, but siding with Meredith is clearly the "evil" option. So lets go down on what happens, Anders blows up Chantry and then Meredith wants to kill all Circle mages (who had no role at all in blowing up the Chantry) it`s just not right. If you side with Meredith you are agreeing to killing dozens of innocents, they had no role in blowing up in the Chantry but they will die if you side with Meredith. There`s just aruging that when you sided with Meredith you agreed to kill dozens of innocents, that was your option to kill innocents or defend them the innocents.  

It isnt right but Merrideth is correct in the assumption that the people will want retribution. If you  were a citizen and you saw the Chantry blown up in a magical vortex and then the knight  commander said i have invoked the right of annulment you would agree.  lets not forget the countless "blood mage" that you did actually fight and then orisino goes and uses the most powerful blood magic spell in the game. at that point in time annulment was the best call. Now does that mean i agree with the treatment of mages prior to that, No. If they had let mages out of the tower and have normal lives while under supervison none of that would have happened. but the stress built and blood magic was there only way out. Cullen even admits they dont even educate mages as to why they are locked up. A little more efficency in the circle to keep morale up and it would have been all ok in Kirkwall. But the action of the chantry exploding by magic and then the call for annulment was the right move to make imo. Albiet she was nuts in the end still good call in my book.

Modifié par Alexander1136, 12 mai 2011 - 04:36 .

[Ryzaki]

GavrielKay wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Pardon my language...BUT WHAT THE HELL. 

Indeed.  I wish I didn't believe there were still people who thought that way.

Maybe we need a few of those horrific death raining mages in the real world 

More like an out of control abomination. And it would be there own damn fault. <_< Edit: not the mages' but the villagers. I can be unclear at times. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 mai 2011 - 04:36 .

[TEWR]

GavrielKay wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

That's beyond disturbingly and sickeningly (is that a word?) horrific.

Us modern Westerners sometimes feel guilty for running roughshod all over tribal traditions, but that's one tradition I'd like to see stamped out forever.

My last few playthroughs I've managed to get everyone to full friendship or rivalriy before the end - so I end up telling a few to just follow along and jump in when they can.

Tribal traditions should be preserved (I'm a little Native American, and I've been to a pow-wow before), but that is just barbaric and should be forgotten. Having sex with a 6 year old? To keep them from becoming promiscuous? Dumbasses.... you're gonna traumatize the girl at the very least.

[GavrielKay]

Ryzaki wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Pardon my language...BUT WHAT THE HELL. 

Indeed.  I wish I didn't believe there were still people who thought that way.

Maybe we need a few of those horrific death raining mages in the real world 

More like an out of control abomination. And it would be there own damn fault. <_< Edit: not the mages' but the villagers. I can be unclear at times. 

To use another meaning of the word - it already is an out of control abomination 

[GavrielKay]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Tribal traditions should be preserved (I'm a little Native American, and I've been to a pow-wow before), but that is just barbaric and should be forgotten. Having sex with a 6 year old? To keep them from becoming promiscuous? Dumbasses.... you're gonna traumatize the girl at the very least.

And then there's the double fun of killing most of the children that result.  Barbaric indeed.

I'm all for preserving tribal customs and identities in nearly all cases, but geez, there's gotta be a limit, and that erm, ritual?, crosses my limit for sure.

[TEWR]

GavrielKay wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Tribal traditions should be preserved (I'm a little Native American, and I've been to a pow-wow before), but that is just barbaric and should be forgotten. Having sex with a 6 year old? To keep them from becoming promiscuous? Dumbasses.... you're gonna traumatize the girl at the very least.

And then there's the double fun of killing most of the children that result.  Barbaric indeed.

I'm all for preserving tribal customs and identities in nearly all cases, but geez, there's gotta be a limit, and that erm, ritual?, crosses my limit for sure.

Tribal customs that preserve a culture should be kept alive. Things like this that damage a person and make life seem like something that can be tossed aside like trash shouldn't.


Now, let's get back on topic and forget about this whole thing before a dev/mod comes in and says we've gotten too off topic and locks the thread. Anyone agree?

[Ryzaki]

GavrielKay wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Tribal traditions should be preserved (I'm a little Native American, and I've been to a pow-wow before), but that is just barbaric and should be forgotten. Having sex with a 6 year old? To keep them from becoming promiscuous? Dumbasses.... you're gonna traumatize the girl at the very least.

And then there's the double fun of killing most of the children that result.  Barbaric indeed.

I'm all for preserving tribal customs and identities in nearly all cases, but geez, there's gotta be a limit, and that erm, ritual?, crosses my limit for sure.

Agreed. Stuff that people do to themselves? Fine whatever floats your boat. Your body is not my business. Taking a little girl that doesn't know what sex is, raping her, possibly getting her preganant and then forcing her to go through an abortion? No. Just. NO. That is not okay. That will never be okay.  

And yeah they are gonna traumatize the girl. I don't understand that logic. I just don't understand it. 

Edit: On topic. 

So how about them mages? They blowing up your house and stealin your cars.

...Actually I wonder if a mage could steal a car just with a spell. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 mai 2011 - 04:48 .

[TEWR]

Jedi mind tricks.


*waves hand*
"you will give me your car keys"

[GavrielKay]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Actually I wonder if a mage could steal a car just with a spell. 

They could distract you with the lovely fireballs and lightning strikes and just drive it away 

[Deztyn]

That is beyond horrifying, Gavriel. It's easy to forget living pretty comfortably in the US that there are still places where things like this are accepted as a part of one's culture.

Um.

On topic:

Hey guys, guess what?
I kill mages in a video game!

Modifié par Deztyn, 12 mai 2011 - 04:59 .

[Ryzaki]

GavrielKay wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Actually I wonder if a mage could steal a car just with a spell. 

They could distract you with the lovely fireballs and lightning strikes and just drive it away 

 

True that. 

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Jedi mind tricks.


*waves hand*
"you will give me your car keys"

I thought that was a bloodmage exclusive trick? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 mai 2011 - 05:02 .

[TEWR]

why do you think some mages are called Force mages?

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

why do you think some mages are called Force mages?

IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

Then bloodmages are the Sith? 

[TEWR]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

why do you think some mages are called Force mages?

IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

Then bloodmages are the Sith? 

It all makes sense now!

Wait... then who are the Wookies?

[IanPolaris]

Deztyn wrote...

And if you are mage, supporting the mages means turning against your brother and killing the people that he's lived and trained with for years. That argument works both ways.

No it really doesn't.  Templars CHOOSE to take holy vows and become templars, and you can choose to walk away from the Order.  Mages can't choose not to be mages.  Thus when you choose to side with the mages, you are choosing to side with a group that has been unjustly marked for genocide based on an act they didn't even do.  The only Templars you kill are the Templars that CHOOSE to go through with this.  Your brother can choose too.

Not the same thing at all.

-Polaris

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

why do you think some mages are called Force mages?

IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

Then bloodmages are the Sith? 

It all makes sense now!

Wait... then who are the Wookies?

 

The wookies? Uh...Alain would be a wookie turned Sith? That doesn't work does it? D: 

Uh...the dwarves are the wookies!  Yeah that doesn't fit very well either. 

Maybe the Sith ate all the wookies D: 

[mesmerizedish]

Wookiee has two "e"s.

[Ryzaki]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Wookiee has two "e"s.

What. EVER

I spell wookie how I wanna spell it.  

Also; 

In early publications, the word Wookiee was often spelled as just "Wookie".

So yeah.