4350 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Louise101,

There's a difference between agreeing with Anders about the plight of the mages, and his attack against the Kirkwall Chantry. Anders sees it as slavery, and condemns the Chantry as an institution for the dictatorships that mages are forced to live in. A pro-mage Hawke can even agree and call it slavery when providing his opinion to Fenris if he left Hawke and sided with Meredith, but it doesn't mean that the protagonist accepts or even agrees with the destruction of the Kirkwall Chantry since it's our choice to allow him to atone for his actions or execute him for what he's done. It isn't as though a pro-mage Hawke is forced to accept the destruction of the Kirkwall Chantry, and the Champion can even lament the death of Grand Cleric Elthina when speaking to Sebastian when the Champion is in the Gallows, preparing for the templars assault.

Sebastian, of all people, can agree that the templars have gone too far, and that doesn't mean he supports what Anders did.

Sebastian: "It's hard to look at these apostates and not see Anders. Andraste says we're all Children of the Maker who deserve the freedom to walk by his side or throw ourselves to the Void. Still, I can't imagine she would support this chaos."

Hawke: "Andraste wouldn't want her Chantry to be a prison and torture chamber. We must reclaim her mercy."

Sebastian: "You're right. I should not need you to remind me of such things. We must show that the Chantry cannot condone tyranny among it's templars."

Even when Hawke talks with Sebastian in regret over what happened to Grand Cleric Elthina, he says that the mages aren't Anders, and they should protect those who "suffered unduly at our hands." Basically, one can support the mages without supporting the specific act that Anders had committed.

[Beerfish]

IanPolaris wrote...

louise101 wrote...

So if Anders is.. as he says himself, an abomination. Why do i have to support his rebellion? Whos rebellion am i supporting exactly? Anders? Vengeance? As far as i recall Justice abhored the killing of innocents, so he is gone.

Good mages i support, all the way.
Templars i support all the way.

Just because Anders is a terrorist and abomination (I agree wholeheartedly on both counts) doesn't mean he's wrong.  All you have to decide is that being a mage doesn't automatically condemn someone to death because a fruit-loop (and clearly fruit-loop) knight commander decides that all mages should die just for being mages.

You decide that it's wrong and immoral to condemn an entire group to death for the crime of another.

It really is that simple and it really is that black and white in spite of what Bioware wants you to believe.

-Polaris

LOL accusing BioWare of being the evil empire now are we?    I think most reasonable people would agree that you are totally wrong.  In your world you would rather have 1000 innocent people slaughtered than to have one mage put in a mages circle and watched over.

If there were 999 evil abominations that razed fereldan and 1 mage that did not you would trumpet.  You can't arrest them because one of them is innocent!!

For whatever reason some mage supporters couldn't care less about many innocent common people as long as it means that one mage is not falsely accused.

At least I'm hearing less "It is the chantry and templars fault" every time a mage does something wrong.  That is a small start I guess.

Modifié par Beerfish, 13 mai 2011 - 02:36 .

[Dave of Canada]

Beerfish wrote...

LOL accusing BioWare of being the evil empire now are we?

They've been doing it for months, including saying how the writers are anti-mage.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 mai 2011 - 02:38 .

[Lewie]

IanPolaris wrote...

louise101 wrote...

Wide gulfs? So there actually is a grey area? There has to be now, of course.

Actually there isn't.  What Anders wants is laudable.  Resorting to the outright murder of innocents to get it (and I don't include Elthina in that number) is not.

What's the difficulty?

-Polaris

Anders is a demon, be clear about what you support thats all im saying. You can't just support him when its convenient for an argument. When he 'changed' fully is questionable. He was as mad, if not worse than Meredith. He admitted it, said it was horrible and decided everyones fate, Meredith did the same thing. So... do you support an abomination or a commander who was controlled by lyrium? 

Meredith's full madness appeared moreso at the end, templars being infected early on she would be strict, at best. Anders is not necessarily Anders, he has changed and is leading an underground rebellion that ultimately starts a war. 

Like i said just be clear.

[IanPolaris]

[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...

[quote]IanPolaris wrote...

Abominations can't either.  Max casualties from an abomination was 70 and that was over a period of months.[/quote]

Redcliffe.
[/quote]

Meredith is not exactly a reliable and unbiased source and the casualties from Redcliff were almost certainly lower than 70 given what we saw.

[quote]
[quote]
burn down villages,
[/quote]

A midaevel style villiage?  Of course he could.  Not even that hard. 

Alone? He might be able to light a house, maybe two before being stopped. He'd need tools too, not simply cough and have the entire house explode.
[/quote]

Thatched rooves?  One person that is stealthy can burn down a village in a night easy.  A middle-ages peasent's hut is very much a fire-trap.



[quote]

[quote]Abominations can't mind control people either as a class.[/quote]
Demons can do it, why can't abominations?
[/quote]

Not ALL demons can do it either.  Many demons can be very persuasive true, but most can't actually seem to mind control. Some can, but not all.


[quote]

[quote]Mind control seems to be a very advanced and specific form of bloodmagic that is difficult to learn
Evidence of this?

[/quote]
[quote]difficult to control[/quote]

Again, evidence of this?


[quote]and isn't anywhere nearly as good as advertised.


Except how we see a dozen blood mage thralls from even the templar ranks, Idunna almost made you (and your companions) kill yourself and such.

[/quote]
[quote]Otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it since everyone important in Thedas would already by mind-controlled by bloodmagic cabalists (or by Tevinter).[/quote]

And how do we know it hasn't already happened before?

[/quote]

If mindcontrol were as easy and dangerous as you and the Chantry would want us to think, then a cabal of Tevinter bloodmages would have taken everyone over long ago.

Game over man.

Again, some common sense needs to be applied.

[quote]


[quote]Cohorts and henchman.[/quote]

Demons and abominations compare to them?
[/quote]

Going by the game, I'd rather have assassin cohorts and henchman.  Srsly.

[quote]

[quote]Coercion.[/quote]

Being convinced to do something yourself compares to being forced to do it against your will?
[/quote]

Demons by and large can't make people do things against their will with very, very few exceptions.


[quote]

[quote]Look I am not saying that untrained magic isn't very dangerous, and NO ONE (reasonably anyway) is saying that magic should be unregulated or that the people don't have a valid public interest in seeing that mages are properly trained.[/quote]

That wasn't the point that was being argued.
[/quote]

Wasn't it.  You and the other pro-templar people seem to say that it's the Chantry way or no restrictions on mages at all.  That's a strawman but it's one I've seen you and others use repeatedly.


[quote]

[quote]However, the whole abomination thing seems to be  fear mongering by the chantry (viewing with alarm) to turn a valid if very rare problem into an excuse for monpolizing all magical power by the Chantry.[/quote]

Except we've heard that other countries that don't have the Chantry / Circle have abominations problems, they just handle it differently?
[/quote]

Right.  They DO handle it differently without collapseing and without treating mages like chattle.  Perhaps the Chantry could learn something?  Nahhh....couldn't happen.


[quote]


[quote]If the Chantry were REALLY interested in fighting abominations, they'd train everyone in antimagic warrior techniques that wanted to learn [/quote]

Templar.
[/quote]

WITHOUT addicting them to lyrium like a drug addict or forcing them to swear fealty to the Divine.


[quote]
[quote]AND they'd allow research into possession.
[/quote]

Tevinter is doing it.[/quote]

You trust the Tevinters?  Me neither.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

LOL accusing BioWare of being the evil empire now are we?

They've been doing it for months, including saying how the writers are anti-mage.

They are.  They have even admitted skewing what we see in DA2 against mages.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Just because Anders is possessed by a demon (and even calling justice a demon is a matter of some dispute) does NOT make Anders wrong.

-Polaris

[LobselVith8]

Deztyn,

I don't think anyone absolves Anders (or Vengeance) of his near murder (or actual killing) of Ella. You're probably right that Anders may break down even further because of the issues that he will encounter with the mage rebellion, and a pro-mage Hawke would be better suited to guide what the mages will do than Anders would (assuming the writers permit Hawke to be proactive instead of persistently reactive).

[HogarthHughes 3]

IanPolaris wrote...

Possibly.  Seb certainly leans pro-templar to be sure (not suprising), but Seb has serious issues with Meredith and does view mages as people and in the end (when you talk with him before the final battle if you went pro-mage) does say that Andrasted did side with the downtrodden.  He's still not at all sure about mages, but it does strike me as potentially a Saul of Tharsus moment for him.

-Polaris

This reminds me of a topic that I haven't really thought that much about, my apologies if it has already been discussed at length in another thread.  That is, what does the Chantry want?  Concerning the mage rebellion, I mean.  What we see in DA 2 indicates that they want peace, but what does that mean?  Do they expect the mages to return to their shackles in exchange for their lives?  I should think that they would be smarter than that, but up to this point mage freedom has generally been equated to bloodthirsty abominations running loose AND Imperium 2.0 in the eyes of the Chantry.

That also reminds me, if abominations were quite the threat the Chantry claims, how did the Imperium have an empire spanning Thedas?  How did the elves have an empire spanning Thedas?  Though we know next to nothing about Arlathan so perhaps I shouldn't bring them into it.  Still, if mage freedom meant there would regularly be nasty abominations killing hundreds and maybe thousands of people, how did the Imperium survive?  The Imperium certainly wouldn't be sad about losing a few peasants, and they apparently sacrificed many many slaves of their own volition, but still.  It just seems to me that if abominations were really so dangerous and likely to happen to your joe-blow mage, that the Imperium would have been forced to create a system of their own that constantly monitored all mages with anti-mage soldiers.

[IanPolaris]

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

This reminds me of a topic that I haven't really thought that much about, my apologies if it has already been discussed at length in another thread.  That is, what does the Chantry want?  Concerning the mage rebellion, I mean.  What we see in DA 2 indicates that they want peace, but what does that mean?  Do they expect the mages to return to their shackles in exchange for their lives?  I should think that they would be smarter than that, but up to this point mage freedom has generally been equated to bloodthirsty abominations running loose AND Imperium 2.0 in the eyes of the Chantry.

Given what we've seen of Lelianna and her ilk, I wouldn't bet on the Chantry being very smart.  As a guess, I am thinking that Justina V wanted to give some rhetorical ground (perhaps an apology or perhaps even an posthuman stripping of Meredith's command) to appease the circles when they revolted and not only did the circles spurn the Chantry but the Templars revolted as well.  That's just my guess, but it seems like the chantry.

I think that the Seekers/Chantry DO think they can make things like they way they were.  They're idiots if they think so, but it wouldn't suprise me in the slightest.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

That also reminds me, if abominations were quite the threat the Chantry claims, how did the Imperium have an empire spanning Thedas?  How did the elves have an empire spanning Thedas?  Though we know next to nothing about Arlathan so perhaps I shouldn't bring them into it.  Still, if mage freedom meant there would regularly be nasty abominations killing hundreds and maybe thousands of people, how did the Imperium survive?  The Imperium certainly wouldn't be sad about losing a few peasants, and they apparently sacrificed many many slaves of their own volition, but still.  It just seems to me that if abominations were really so dangerous and likely to happen to your joe-blow mage, that the Imperium would have been forced to create a system of their own that constantly monitored all mages with anti-mage soldiers.

Indeed.  I strongly suspect (but we will never see the numbers to test this) that the rate of abominations before the Chantry Circle system is actually LESS than the abomination rates outside the circle because there are so many more abominations many of which are in fact created by the Templars hunting escapted mages and apostates (and in fact the codex entry for Abominations details such a case).  If I am correct, the Chantry system has actually made life WORSE and not better for the common man vis a vis abominations.

-Polaris

[LobselVith8]

louise101 wrote...

So... do you support an abomination or a commander who was controlled by lyrium?

The choice isn't between Meredith and Anders, it's choosing to help Meredith fulfill the Right of Annulment or helping protect the men, women, and children of the Kirkwall Circle from execution. Anders alone is responsible for the destruction of the Kirkwall Chantry, and not the people who are innocent of Anders' actions but who are going to be killed regardless unless Hawke intervenes and saves their lives.

[Lewie]

IanPolaris wrote...

Just because Anders is possessed by a demon (and even calling justice a demon is a matter of some dispute) does NOT make Anders wrong.

-Polaris

I trusted Justice, all the way, was no demon until Anders got him. I don't trust what happened to him and what he became. Anders admits all this. Its all GONE WRONG. 

'Mens hearts hold shadows darker than any tainted creature'.

I can't even imagine what happened to Justice, simply that he was poisoned by Anders own horrors. Will i run behind him for freedom? No.

[HogarthHughes 3]

IanPolaris wrote...

Indeed.  I strongly suspect (but we will never see the numbers to test this) that the rate of abominations before the Chantry Circle system is actually LESS than the abomination rates outside the circle because there are so many more abominations many of which are in fact created by the Templars hunting escapted mages and apostates (and in fact the codex entry for Abominations details such a case).  If I am correct, the Chantry system has actually made life WORSE and not better for the common man vis a vis abominations.

-Polaris

Yes exactly, the Chantry just seems to create what they intended to destroy.  Especially so with the situation in Kirkwall.  Though the problem was also exacerbated by the Tevinters and the Resolutionists.  

[IanPolaris]

louise101 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Just because Anders is possessed by a demon (and even calling justice a demon is a matter of some dispute) does NOT make Anders wrong.

-Polaris

I trusted Justice, all the way, was no demon until Anders got him. I don't trust what happened to him and what he became. Anders admits all this. Its all GONE WRONG. 

'Mens hearts hold shadows darker than any tainted creature'.

I can't even imagine what happened to Justice, simply that he was poisoned by Anders own horrors. Will i run behind him for freedom? No.

I kill Anders/Justice everytime but I support the mages pretty much every time (except to test the game and possible endings).  It has nothing to do with "supporting a demon" and everything to do with defending a group of people against a genocidal maniac who wants to kill them all for a crime they didn't even commit.

That's really all I have to know.

-Polaris

[Deztyn]

IanPolaris wrote...

Deztyn wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

If the Chantry were really concerned about protecting mages from mundanes and from themselves (and vice versa) then at least SOME templar training should be made public knowledge.

If training were available to guardsmen (perhaps even select guardsmen) that needed it to control magic and if the people knew that mages could be thus controlled by publically common knowledge, then people would fear mages less.

The fact that the Chantry actually persecutes those that try to get anti-magic training and addicts those that do with lyrium tells me that the Chantry doesn't care at all about mages except how to control them for their own (Chantry's) ends. Yes I do think the Chantry is overall an evil (or at least immoral) organization.

-Polaris

Again, why should it be necessary to have half trained templars in town to protect against mages, when there are already full templars in town to protect against mages?

Why?  That should be obvious.  Most kings (and nobles in general) don't like the idea of foreign armies on their soil.  Keep local armies local.  If you relate the Templars to an organization like the Chantry, the Chantry gets ideas like it (rather than the king) should be in charge of more than just magic (see Kirkwall as Exhibit A).

There's no practical difference between what you want the Chantry to do and what they are already doing. The Chantry want to keep their secrets and their power, I don't blame them for that. More importantly, they're not doing it at the expense of the common people as you are trying to say.

Yes they are and there is a HUGE practical difference.  If the Chantry decided to train the trainers, basic anti-magic techniques could be common place within a generation at most (two at the very outside) and that would mean that people would know that competant anti-magic forces would be there to deal with any rogue mage, abomination, or malificar within minutes or at worst hours...and there would be a much geater number of such as well AND they would be local boys subject to local lords and NOT subject to the whim of a distant Divine.  That's a big deal.  Remember the CHantry was almost kicked out of Fereldan once for it's open abuse of power and open support of a hated and brutal occupation.

Given all that, I most certainly do blame the Chantry or at best consider the Chantry's please for "commoner protection" from magic to be hypocritical at best.

-Polaris

1) You're changing the argument again. What the local leaders want doesn't change the fact that the Chantry is in no way restricting the ability to handle mages at the expense of the people. Like you said they were.


2) Templar specific training has no practical use except to fight mages. I see no reason to think there will be any great number of people who will jump at the chance to get this difficult to learn and mostly useless set of skills. The people who really want to fight mages already become Templars. The people who just want to fight become soldiers, guards or mercenaries.

3) The stated purpose of the Templars is to fight magic and demons. I can't see the Divine, a Grand Cleric or any ranking Templar ordering them not to fight Maleficar and demons.

4) The common people are Andrastian, that means templars stationed near any population large enough to have any warriors stationed.

5) If Fereldan or anywhere else wants to boot the Chantry out of their country, and they're left with no anti-magic warriors as a result that's their own problem.

Modifié par Deztyn, 13 mai 2011 - 03:15 .

[HogarthHughes 3]

IanPolaris wrote...

I kill Anders/Justice everytime but I support the mages pretty much every time (except to test the game and possible endings).  It has nothing to do with "supporting a demon" and everything to do with defending a group of people against a genocidal maniac who wants to kill them all for a crime they didn't even commit.

That's really all I have to know.

-Polaris

Well to be fair Meredith had already called for the RoA before Anders destroyed the Chantry, she was just waiting for permission.  The death of the Grand Cleric gave her the right to do so then and there, and I can't imagine a mage blowing up the Chantry gave her any less reason to want to kill the mages either.

[Lewie]

LobselVith8 wrote...

louise101 wrote...

So... do you support an abomination or a commander who was controlled by lyrium?

The choice isn't between Meredith and Anders, it's choosing to help Meredith fulfill the Right of Annulment or helping protect the men, women, and children of the Kirkwall Circle from execution. Anders alone is responsible for the destruction of the Kirkwall Chantry, and not the people who are innocent of Anders' actions but who are going to be killed regardless unless Hawke intervenes and saves their lives.

Nicely written, and worded. I support neither Meredith or Anders, like i said i support good mages and good templars. I know you play on peoples feelings about the game, but if you are so content in your choice, why are you trying to change everyone elses mind? Why not just play on, and why this need to have people defend something you don't agree with? 

[Lewie]

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

I kill Anders/Justice everytime but I support the mages pretty much every time (except to test the game and possible endings).  It has nothing to do with "supporting a demon" and everything to do with defending a group of people against a genocidal maniac who wants to kill them all for a crime they didn't even commit.

That's really all I have to know.

-Polaris

Well to be fair Meredith had already called for the RoA before Anders destroyed the Chantry, she was just waiting for permission.  The death of the Grand Cleric gave her the right to do so then and there, and I can't imagine a mage blowing up the Chantry gave her any less reason to want to kill the mages either.

Meredith called for it straight after Anders blew up the chantry. 

'Maker have mercy.
The grand cleric has been slain by magic, the chantry destroyed,
As knight commander i hereby etc'

Orsino mentions before that she wants it, before you get the best served cold quest, heresay maybe, but Orsino knows more than he lets on.

[IanPolaris]

Deztyn wrote...
1) You're changing the argument again. What the local leaders want doesn't change the fact that the Chantry is in no way restricting the ability to handle mages at the expense of the people. Like you said they were.

King Alistair doesn't agree with you.

2) Templar specific training has no practical use except to fight mages. I see no reason to think there will be any great number of people who will jump at the chance to get this difficult to learn and mostly useless set of skills. The people who really want to fight mages already become Templars. The people who just want to fight become soldiers, guards or mercenaries.

If mages and abominations aren't common enough for at least some soldiers and guardsmen to learn special techniques to deal with them, then they aren't common enough to justify treating mages like non-people even from a purely pragmatic PoV.  Pick one.

If they are common enough, then anti-magic training is of value.

3) The stated purpose of the Templars is to fight magic and demons. I can't see the Divine, a Grand Cleric or any ranking Templar ordering them not to fight Maleficar and demons.

I can see a Divine or Knight Commander using the Templars to take power that isn't supposed to be theirs (see Kirkwall).

4) The common people are Andrastian, that means templars stationed near any population large enough to have any warriors stationed.

The pool of warriors is a lot larger than the pool of Templars.

5) If Fereldan or anywhere else wants to boot the Chantry out of their country, and they're left with no anti-magic warriors as a result that's their own problem.

The Chantry doesn't seem to think so.  If it weren't for the revolt, they'd have already declared an exalted march on Fereldan.  For that matter the Templars DID take over Kirkwall by force when the Viscount wanted to kick the Templars out.

-Polaris

[Rifneno]

Master Shiori wrote...

Well Knight, considering that we hardly see Meredith during act 1, it's hard to judge how effective she is without the idol's influence. You could argue that Kirkwall is pretty stable during act 1.

Thrask, a templar himself, says he feels Meredith has caused "as much dissent as obedience."

TJPags wrote...

Genocide is a term defined by an organization that doesn't exist on Thedas. I don't care what world I'm from, when I'm playing DA2, I'm some dude named Hawke from Thedas. Which has no UN. Which has no defined term such as "genocide". Which has mages.

The word "terrorism" is barely 200 years old, yet you don't complain about that. "Perhaps" because it's mostly paraded around by your own side.

Ryzaki wrote...

Why would computer programmers have to be locked up because of an AI? That doesn't even make any sense.

*points towards Mass Effect forums* Perhaps those nice folks can educate you on the potential danger of AI. Hint: It makes magic look like play-dough.

Ryzaki wrote...

And locking up dwarven smugglers would start an international incident. Well possibly anyway. I don't see dwarves reacting well to humans getting in on their business.

Not really. They're criminals by Orzammar too. The government down there has an exclusive trade deal with the Chantry. So whatever non-Chantry lyrium we see is illegal as far as they're concerned too. Not that it matters much, you've seen what douches dwarves are about caste and status. Surface dwarves are dirt as far as they're concerned.

And to the obvious next question, I can only assume the lyrium we find in places like the Bone Pit are for gameplay reasons rather than story. They tell us in DAO that pretty much all lyrium comes from Orzammar's mines. It's like diamonds; you only find it deep. Unless they retconned it anyway.

Beerfish wrote...

At least I'm hearing less "It is the chantry and templars fault" every time a mage does something wrong. That is a small start I guess.

Which is interesting, because what you hear and what's being said are very rarely the same thing. You know, like he just said "it's a black and white choice, despite what Bioware wants you to believe," meaning that a writer is trying to make a usually easy moral choice look blurry. Yet you heard "they're an evil empire." I don't know how you... I mean, do you even know what the word empire means? Lord...

[Rifneno]

louise101 wrote...

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

I kill Anders/Justice everytime but I support the mages pretty much every time (except to test the game and possible endings).  It has nothing to do with "supporting a demon" and everything to do with defending a group of people against a genocidal maniac who wants to kill them all for a crime they didn't even commit.

That's really all I have to know.

-Polaris

Well to be fair Meredith had already called for the RoA before Anders destroyed the Chantry, she was just waiting for permission.  The death of the Grand Cleric gave her the right to do so then and there, and I can't imagine a mage blowing up the Chantry gave her any less reason to want to kill the mages either.

Meredith called for it straight after Anders blew up the chantry. 

'Maker have mercy.
The grand cleric has been slain by magic, the chantry destroyed,
As knight commander i hereby etc'

Orsino mentions before that she wants it, before you get the best served cold quest, heresay maybe, but Orsino knows more than he lets on.

If you let Karras live in Act 1, in Act 3 he has dialogue saying Meredith sent to Orlais for the Right of Annulment despite Anders' stunt not having happened yet.

[HogarthHughes 3]

louise101 wrote...

Meredith called for it straight after Anders blew up the chantry. 

'Maker have mercy.
The grand cleric has been slain by magic, the chantry destroyed,
As knight commander i hereby etc'

Orsino mentions before that she wants it, before you get the best served cold quest, heresay maybe, but Orsino knows more than he lets on.

Talk to Ser Karras in Act III, he'll tell you that Meredith has sent to Val Royeaux for the RoA.

*edit -  too slow in my response, didn't bother reading to the bottom of the thread

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 13 mai 2011 - 03:39 .

[Lewie]

The templars didn't take over kirkwall by force, way to dramatise it. Aveline told them to get lost (basically) and re-took control of the guards. Templars admitted things were going bad with Meredith at least they told hawke to his/her face what they thought was happening.

[LobselVith8]

Beerfish wrote...

LOL associating Bioware with being the Evil Empire now are we? I think most reasonable people would agree that you are totally wrong. In your world you would rather have 1000 innocent people slaughtered than have one mage put in a mages circle and watched over.

I think it is an issue regarding whether you agree with the Chantry controlled Circles or not. The ruler of Ferelden thinks the mages have earned the right to govern themselves. When it came to the decision over an elven mage obtaining a title and wealth, or asking for his people to be free, the Hero of Ferelden asked for his people to be given their independence, and the new ruler of Ferelden agreed. Of course the Chantry said no, but the Commander of the Grey became a high noble when he took the role of Arl of Amaranthine, made decisions that had the farmers coming to rely on him and established Vigil's Keep into a lucrative trading hub. I'm sure the Chantry was very happy to learn about an elven mage having a position of authority, and especially when he saved Amaranthine City from the darkspawn so the crowds would be cheering him on as he headed to kill the matriarch of these armies that tried to eliminate humanity.

I'm sure the news that, across the Waking Sea, there was a mage who had earned the people's trust and love, and was seen as blessed by the Maker himself (according to Queen Anora), was nothing but delightful.

Saving the entire nation of Ferelden and protecting Amaranthine from intelligent darkspawn are accomplishments that can be done by a mage who isn't controlled by the Chantry or the templars, who can be aided by other mages. We even see Anders doing some good as an apostate when he was delivering babies and helping the sick. I think mages could accomplish a great deal of good, especially when you consider Duncan's words about how effective mages are against the darkspawn.

Although it does beg the question, why did Meredith want the Lyrium Idol in the first place? Did the Chantry know what was down there in the primeval thaig? What did Meredith hope to accomplish with it? Who was she "talking" to when she was alone, in her office?