29 réponses à ce sujet

[SkeletonDance43]

 Having a hard time picking. Could use some help?

[tenshi_no_hone]

Assassin. Bumps up the crits and party damage, as well as helping stamina regen. By far my favourite rogue specialisation

[SkeletonDance43]

I played Assassin for my first playthru, just wanted people's opinion on the different specs.. and see if there was any difference. lol

[Swordfishtrombone]

Assassin will turn your rogue into an insane killing machine that takes down boss-level opponents in seconds. Overpowered, methinks. If you think that'll make the game too easy for you, then pick another specialization - if you don't mind the power overload, then assassin should be your pick.

[tanerb123]

assassin is really good. in duelist i did not see any good from parry or the gauntlet. however, vendetta is really good to kill qunari mages. they dissaper before you reach them, with vendetta they have no chance to do that. vendetta+assassinate is really cool against mages and rogues.

[tenshi_no_hone]

Try something else then - really easy to do if you're carrying round a couple of Maker's sighs too. I loved assassin as an archer because when individual shots do high damage but fire slowly, maximising critical chance is essential. Using bursting arrow with shadow's obscured crits too made my archer even more deadly

[aethernox]

Assassin and Duelist are best. Shadow is really, really underwhelming in my opinion. None of the abilities are very good. The talent that causes your crits to disorient while you're obscuring sounds good on paper, but you have to waste a lot of skill points on getting a good obscure method.

Assassin is probably the most important Rogue specialization. I don't see many builds that don't choose it.

I like duelist because of the massive passive bonuses to attack/defense that let you hit 100/100/100 with relatively little dexterity (cunning is the way to go, once you've got a dex stat in the mid 40's) and 80/80/80 fairly early on. Vendetta is also quite good, and when combined with Assassinate you have easy and powerful ways to exploit both types of CCCs.

[SlamminHams]

Warriors and Rogues seem to have one dominating tree (Reaver and Assassination, respectively) while Mages have three, equally viable trees.

On topic, Assassin is the best, with Shadow coming in second.  However, Duelist allows for a different playstyle, which gives the Rogue good offtanking capacity.  To me, Duelist doesn't do enough to warrant it being specced over Shadow or Assassination.

[Ganen]

SkeletonDance43 wrote...

 Having a hard time picking. Could use some help?

one word, assassinate, get it asap and one shot elites

[Atmosfear3]

Assassin should always be the primary choice. The real question is whether you take Shadow or Duelist. Personally, I don't find Duelist all that useful. Shadow provides way more damage and utility. Duelist is more of an off-tank spec, which isn't always necessary especially if you have properly crowd control spells or bring along Fenris/Isabela.

[Ganen]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

Assassin should always be the primary choice. The real question is whether you take Shadow or Duelist. Personally, I don't find Duelist all that useful. Shadow provides way more damage and utility. Duelist is more of an off-tank spec, which isn't always necessary especially if you have properly crowd control spells or bring along Fenris/Isabela.

shadow, because even full duelist rogues are bad in direct combat, and the shadow tree boosts your survivability, your defencive cooldowns AND your criticals

duelists gives you insane attack and defence, but... I already have that with 1 point precision alone and average gear...

Modifié par Ganen, 23 mars 2011 - 02:34 .

[aethernox]

Shadow gives you more damage? How? Aside from +25% Crit damage, I don't see it. Admittedly, that's really good, but Duelist gives you Vendetta, enough Attack to use Speed instead of Precision, and additional crit chance.

You're 100/100/100 and 80/80/80 with just precision and average gear?

[Atmosfear3]

aethernox wrote...

Shadow gives you more damage? How? Aside from +25% Crit damage, I don't see it. Admittedly, that's really good, but Duelist gives you Vendetta, enough Attack to use Speed instead of Precision, and additional crit chance.

You're 100/100/100 and 80/80/80 with just precision and average gear?

Its not worth it to get 100% hit on bosses. That would require so much dexterity that your cunning score would hurt, not to mention the diminishing returns of Dex at higher levels. If you can achieve even 80% against bosses with Heroic aura, you're in pretty good shape.

[Ganen]

aethernox wrote...

Shadow gives you more damage? How? Aside from +25% Crit damage, I don't see it. Admittedly, that's really good, but Duelist gives you Vendetta, enough Attack to use Speed instead of Precision, and additional crit chance.

You're 100/100/100 and 80/80/80 with just precision and average gear?

you do realize that the incredible rogue dps comes precisely from talents like those right?
that talent from shadow is a HUGE boost, but coupled with the one from assaissation together with high cuning scores, you will be criting insanely high and incredibly often.
the stealth talents give you crit chance aswell, and well it lets you dish out all the punishment you need while having the cooldowns to keep you alive.

vendetta <<<<< assassinate and most talents to get there are  either weak or not even half as good as the ones in assassination and shadow.

Modifié par Ganen, 23 mars 2011 - 02:50 .

[aethernox]

The difference between 200% crit damage and 225% is not that large. Vendetta *is* worse than assassinate, but assassinate has a giant cooldown, and Vendetta exploits the opposite CCC, which also happens to be the easiest to inflict. Assassinate is a fairly broken talent, being worse than it is no crime.

Also, what? All of the talents in Duelist are good, perhaps with the exception of one of the upgrades to Throw the Gauntlet. Whereas Shadow doesn't have very many good talents at all. Inconspicuous is worse than Goad, in my opinion. Disorienting Criticals is actually good, with Shadow Veil, but the obscure durations are generally short, and so you have to spend a lot of stamina and talent points to keep it up. Decoy seems... underwhelming.

[zeypher]

i usually prefer assassin and duelist as well. it easily enables me to get 80% def against bosses as well as a very high attack and crit chance. Duelist allows you to ignore dexterity pretty much, with gear if u dex is in high 40's just go pure cun from then on. Besides vendetta is a godsend skill to wipe out mages and stuff

[Atmosfear3]

zeypher wrote...

i usually prefer assassin and duelist as well. it easily enables me to get 80% def against bosses as well as a very high attack and crit chance. Duelist allows you to ignore dexterity pretty much, with gear if u dex is in high 40's just go pure cun from then on. Besides vendetta is a godsend skill to wipe out mages and stuff

Why do you need defense against bosses? Are you tanking them? You can the additional hit from the Specialist tree if you really need it. The sustain cost isn't that bad either taking speed or precision.
All you need to wipe out mages and other high priority targets is to equip a bow, apply mark of death and hex of torment if your mage has it, then assassinate. Re-equip your daggers and mop up.

[SlamminHams]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

Its not worth it to get 100% hit on bosses. That would require so much dexterity that your cunning score would hurt, not to mention the diminishing returns of Dex at higher levels. If you can achieve even 80% against bosses with Heroic aura, you're in pretty good shape.

Contribution from Dexterity/Attack caps at 100/85/70.

Heroic Aura will put you at 85% against bosses.

aethernox wrote...

The difference between 200% crit damage and 225% is not that large.

You're not serious, right...?  At the end of the game, I was sitting at 80% Crit as DW without stacking Dexterity, so in combat I fluctuated between 80-100% Crit.  So, +25% Crit Damage was the equivalent of +25% Damage.  For one point.

From a stat standpoint, that's the equivalent of 12.5 stat points (for those specced Assasination), which is 4 levels worth of nothing but Cunning.

but the obscure durations are generally short, and so you have to spend a lot of stamina and talent points to keep it up. Decoy seems... underwhelming.

You need, what, 3 points for upgraded Chamoleon's Breath?  You can also have another Rogue (Varric) spec into Fatuging Fog (which is an amazing ass ablity).  Obscure isn't that hard to facilitate.  And Stamina regeneration is a joke on an Rogue at basically any point in the game.

[Ganen]

aethernox wrote...

The difference between 200% crit damage and 225% is not that large.

... you cant be serious...
it is that "large" specially considering how easy on demand crit rates you will have.

and thats not all, shadow also has a talent that gives you free 25% crit when obscured, not as good but still worth mentioning.

Vendetta *is* worse than assassinate, but assassinate has a giant cooldown, and Vendetta exploits the opposite CCC, which also happens to be the easiest to inflict. Assassinate is a fairly broken talent, being worse than it is no crime.

its true about the CCC but not nearly good enough of a reason to pick over assassinate OR shadow for that matter (especially since you will only have both specs filled up at near end of the game and by then wont matter that much anyway)...

the talents are just not on the same page tbh vendetta doesnt compete, the amount of dmg you do with assassinate is just ludicrous...
and the cooldown isnt that long when fully upgraded, and even unupgraded, it does every 40s what vendetta doesnt do in 80s (since it has the same cooldown lol) and what pining shot does in 30 (wich iirc is 2 maybe 3 pining shots)

Also, what? All of the talents in Duelist are good, perhaps with the exception of one of the upgrades to Throw the Gauntlet.

good is relative... you think talents that give you defence (about hald the talents of duelist do this) are good? taunt is good? more attack is good? maybe so, if you intend to go toe to toe in melee... wich you will fail at miserebly unless you play on the easier settings and even so, for that a warrior does way better...

Whereas Shadow doesn't have very many good talents at all. Inconspicuous is worse than Goad, in my opinion. Disorienting Criticals is actually good, with Shadow Veil, but the obscure durations are generally short, and so you have to spend a lot of stamina and talent points to keep it up. Decoy seems... underwhelming.

okay first dont compare goad with anything in shadow, they arnt even in specialized trees and you can easily get goad and armstice regardless of what specs you get.
and what what? decoy is the best defencive ability a rogue has... it gives you a panic button aswell as a free offtank for a time (the decoy) its just awesome...and together with the base subterfuge ones makes stealths awesome defencive and offencive abilitiy at same time.




fact is m8, duelist boost NOTHING but your defence stat (wich still
doesnt keep you alive against the threats a rogue faces and still doesnt
let you be a proper tank) and you attack rating (wich is already more
than hight enough with precision alone)

shadow boosts your survivvability way more than any defence duelist gives you...

Modifié par Ganen, 23 mars 2011 - 03:36 .

[aethernox]

You can only assassinate twice per minute, and in my experience there is often more than one high-priority target in a fight.

[Ganen]

aethernox wrote...

You can only assassinate twice per minute, and in my experience there is often more than one high-priority target in a fight.

assassinate and vendetta have the same cooldowns but... having both...

that is a fair point, I supose, having both skills allows you to easily and faster dispatch 2 high priority targets, but still, I dont think all the wasted talents to get it, aswell as as the stage at wich you can get both (too latei n the game) is worth it.

for an archer such as myself maybe, but daggers have twin blades that also do insane dmg totally not worth it

[Atmosfear3]

aethernox wrote...

You can only assassinate twice per minute, and in my experience there is often more than one high-priority target in a fight.

Thats why you have companions as well. They aren't there just to look pretty and fierce.

[aethernox]

Well, if you have companions who can gank lieutenants from across the battlefield, why do you need a rogue at all?

[tanerb123]

vendetta is way underrated. yes it may not damage as much but teleport is very important 1. to get dissapearing targets like mages or assassins 2. to help your mage in case she is attacked by multiple targets 3. escape from death. very few enemies stay alive with vendetta+assasinate+twin fangs