390 réponses à ce sujet

[Romantiq]

DirtyFinger wrote...

so ... this is the dick responsible for reusing the same maps over and over and over and over and over ... ?

Since he is THE LEVEL DESIGNER then yeah. But, imho, they are all equally responsible for creating an utterly unpolished product that stole $59 out of people's pockets.

[DirtyFinger]

Romantiq wrote...

DirtyFinger wrote...

so ... this is the dick responsible for reusing the same maps over and over and over and over and over ... ?

Since he is THE LEVEL DESIGNER then yeah. But, imho, they are all equally responsible for creating an utterly unpolished product that stole $59 out of people's pockets.

well, it's not like DA2 is a complete waste of money ... it just feels like that if you expected to get Dragon Age and instead get Double Dragon.

[dzizass]

Most of the design problems of DA2 originate in BioWare's belief that many people stopped playing DA:O after just a few hours because they were overwhelmed with the RPG mechanics: e.g. they couldn't figure out what a such sophisticated notion like "STR" on the character screen is.
Well, BioWare, maybe, just maybe, people abandoned the game because of:
- the graphics
the game didn't resemble in any way the trailers that advertised it. Actually, DA:O looked not only worse than ME2 but also much worse than ME1 and The Witcher which are older games.
- extremely bad dialogues
- boring combat
That's just a few things that BW could have considered. But no. They decided that the game is not stupid enough to appeal to most people. Well done, BioWare!

[Grovermancer]

dzizass wrote...

Most of the design problems of DA2 originate in BioWare's belief that many people stopped playing DA:O after just a few hours because they were overwhelmed with the RPG mechanics: e.g. they couldn't figure out what a such sophisticated notion like "STR" on the character screen is.
Well, BioWare, maybe, just maybe, people abandoned the game because of:
- the graphics
the game didn't resemble in any way the trailers that advertised it. Actually, DA:O looked not only worse than ME2 but also much worse than ME1 and The Witcher which are older games.
- extremely bad dialogues
- boring combat
That's just a few things that BW could have considered. But no. They decided that the game is not stupid enough to appeal to most people. Well done, BioWare!

Except none of those points are accurate...

Also, where is that statement coming from -- that "people stopped playing DA:O after just a few hours" -- how do they know this?

- ME's graphics are different, cleaner, as it's science fiction; it's not a fantasy mythology, meant to invoke a feeling of nostalgia, like DAO's design were meant to do.  (or meant to invoke a feeling of Saturday morning cartoons, as DA2's graphics were apparently meant to do)

-  How did DAO have 'bad dialgoue?'  You mean because it had more than 3 options?  Or because what you said could actually change the story, change the events in the world? 

- If by "boring" combat, you mean gritty, dire, and fitting perfectly w/ the universe in question, then yes, it was "boring."  Though some think DA2's God of War combat is RAWR kewl!

[didymos1120]

Grovermancer wrote...
Also, where is that statement coming from -- that "people stopped playing DA:O after just a few hours" -- how do they know this?

Because they've taken to gathering gameplay data in all their recent games.  They have all sorts of statistics on what people have done and still do in ME2, DA:O, and DA2.

[Eclipse_9990]

 Lol omg. This is so pathetic. If it wasnt for Mass Effect 3 I wouldnt even bother with Bioware anymore. This guy obviously has no shame. I bet the devs just decided use most of the game budget on themselves, or they procrastinated alot till the last minute. Thats why they were rushing to finish the game before release. 

But all in all this is just awful. Thank god for Oblivion.  I had to play Oblivion, and go through the dungeons to get Mehrudens Razor, and play the knight of the nines quests to remember what an awesome rpg experience, and downloadable content was like. Man.. I wanna play Skyrim so badly right now. 

[MonkeyLungs]

The enemeis falling out of thin air is really really funny. Not in a good way. Normally the first wave outnumbers you anyway ... why not just make the first wave more exciting to fight?

[rayvioletta]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

The enemeis falling out of thin air is really really funny. Not in a good way.

there are a few (very few) places where it does actually look pretty good, the enemies acually seem to be coming out of a pre-ambush hiding spot. but in most places they just jump out of thin air. leads me to think they started off designing it properly and then decided to do waves on all fights but didnt have the time to implement them properly so just had them appear out of thin air

[KalDurenik]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

 Lol omg. This is so pathetic. If it wasnt for Mass Effect 3 I wouldnt even bother with Bioware anymore. This guy obviously has no shame. I bet the devs just decided use most of the game budget on themselves, or they procrastinated alot till the last minute. Thats why they were rushing to finish the game before release. 

But all in all this is just awful. Thank god for Oblivion.  I had to play Oblivion, and go through the dungeons to get Mehrudens Razor, and play the knight of the nines quests to remember what an awesome rpg experience, and downloadable content was like. Man.. I wanna play Skyrim so badly right now. 

Dont worry about ME3! It only have the same baking time (give or take a few months) as DA2... Im sure it will all work out great... ...

[dzizass]

Grovermancer wrote...
Except none of those points are accurate...

Also, where is that statement coming from -- that "people stopped playing DA:O after just a few hours" -- how do they know this?

They know this because they had players log in to be able to play it. Then, they monitored the statistics.

- ME's graphics are different, cleaner, as it's science fiction; it's not a fantasy mythology, meant to invoke a feeling of nostalgia, like DAO's design were meant to do.  (or meant to invoke a feeling of Saturday morning cartoons, as DA2's graphics were apparently meant to do)

So... because DA:O was supposed to invoke nostalgia it had worse graphics than Witcher which was released  2 years before? And witcher could invoke nostalgia. DA:O looked just uninspired and technologically impaired.

-  How did DAO have 'bad dialgoue?'  You mean because it had more than 3 options?  Or because what you said could actually change the story, change the events in the world? 

No, because the utterances were often extremely stupid and often didn't fit the situation, e.g. Alistair's dialogues in the tower. Oh, and also what you said only affected the flavour in most cases, not anything else. Your more than 3 options would often lead to the same outcome, no matter which you chose.
And what story are you talking about? Join the jedi, kill the dragon? Hardly a story, but a player who gave up after a few hours was fortunate not to know it.

- If by "boring" combat, you mean gritty, dire, and fitting perfectly w/ the universe in question, then yes, it was "boring."  Though some think DA2's God of War combat is RAWR kewl!

Oh, it sure was a dire experience. Fallout 1/2 had cool combat, Temple of Elemental Evil had cool combat, Batman: Arkham Asylum had cool combat. Even in Baldur's Gate combat was pretty fun. DA:O combat was pretty weak.

[Clonedzero]

people being outraged at interview language and answers still baffles me.

its an interview. he's not going to flat out say he did anything wrong or that theres anything super bad about the game.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

In Soviet Canada, our view is more personal and right, the player deserves no view, haha.

Yes, I am joking but not without a point. Thank you for the links and translation OP.

[Grovermancer]

dzizass wrote...

So... because DA:O was supposed to invoke nostalgia it had worse graphics than Witcher which was released  2 years before? And witcher could invoke nostalgia. DA:O looked just uninspired and technologically impaired.

The art design (ie, the look of locations) were supposed to have an aspect of nostalgia.  To look a certain way, to invoke a certain feeling, even familiarity.  To be archetypal.  LOL when people complain essentially: [para] "But the dwarf levels looked... too... Dwarven!"

Yeah, sorry, but just cause you say it, doesn't make it so.  The Witcher's art design, LOL?  What, all 6 or 7 locations?  Or all 6 or 7 NPCs they recycled over and over and over?  The Witcher's art design was fine.  Nothing great.  Overall, it was very simple.  (sometimes I think people confuse cheap and amateurish as being "gritty" or "dark")  Not as epic as DAO's locations.  (how many locations were just fields of some sort?)  Nearly all of the Witcher's locations felt very simple, very small, and usually, very generic.

No, because the utterances were often extremely stupid and often didn't fit the situation, e.g. Alistair's dialogues in the tower. Oh, and also what you said only affected the flavour in most cases, not anything else. Your more than 3 options would often lead to the same outcome, no matter which you chose.
And what story are you talking about? Join the jedi, kill the dragon? Hardly a story, but a player who gave up after a few hours was fortunate not to know it.

Yes, there were more than 3 options.  (well, really "more than 2," since the top 2 DA2 options were usually the same, w/ exactly the same results).  And the dialogue options in DAO, when speaking to party members, could make all the difference to unlocking relationships, NPC quests, and learning about them, or the culture they came from.

LOL at hating on the hero's journey storyline.  Laughable.  I guess that's the hip thing to say nowadays, eh?  Yeah, DA is a mythology -- go figure -- the story is mythological, too.  (I guess it can't compare to the epic heroism of "fetch groceries over 10 years" that is the bulk of DA2's profound story)

Go watch some cheap indie film if you want some whiny, emo, so-called "character driven" boredom. (most of which is usually just a celebration of dysfunction, under the guise of being some "insightful examination")

Oh, it sure was a dire experience. Fallout 1/2 had cool combat, Temple of Elemental Evil had cool combat, Batman: Arkham Asylum had cool combat. Even in Baldur's Gate combat was pretty fun. DA:O combat was pretty weak.

"And the cow jumped over the moon!"   --see, I can say anything, too.

DA2's combat is God of War.

[didymos1120]

KalDurenik wrote...

Dont worry about ME3! It only have the same baking time (give or take a few months) as DA2... Im sure it will all work out great... ...

ME3 will have had about the same amount of dev time as ME2 did (you should recall that before ME2 even released, they'd given statements that they were already working on ME3). Even ME1 didn't have that much more: announced very late in 2005, released very late in 2007 on 360. Of course, they were at work before that announcement, but a lot of that extra time would have been pre-production world-building type stuff, not actual work on the game itself. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 28 mars 2011 - 03:54 .

[Ollys]

Reusing Areas? I bet the Jews did it!

[MDarwin]

dzizass wrote...

Most of the design problems of DA2 originate in BioWare's belief that many people stopped playing DA:O after just a few hours because they were overwhelmed with the RPG mechanics: e.g. they couldn't figure out what a such sophisticated notion like "STR" on the character screen is.
Well, BioWare, maybe, just maybe, people abandoned the game because of:
- the graphics
the game didn't resemble in any way the trailers that advertised it. Actually, DA:O looked not only worse than ME2 but also much worse than ME1 and The Witcher which are older games.
- extremely bad dialogues
- boring combat
That's just a few things that BW could have considered. But no. They decided that the game is not stupid enough to appeal to most people. Well done, BioWare!

Just be happy with your DA2. That is Ok. I am not.

[Iwasdrunkbro]

Q: why does every area in the game look the same?
A: we thought it would be better to focus on dlc instead of the core game so we can make more money.

[dzizass]

MDarwin wrote...


Just be happy with your DA2. That is Ok. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie] I am not.

Oh, I didn't say that DA2 is good. Quite the opposite. I'm just pointing out the thought process BW has gone through to deliver something even sloppier than DA:O.

Grovermancer wrote...



The art design (ie, the look of
locations) were supposed to have an aspect of nostalgia.  To look a certain way, to invoke a certain feeling, even familiarity.  To be archetypal.  LOL when people complain essentially: [para] "But the dwarf levels looked... too... Dwarven!"



Yeah, sorry, but just cause you say it, doesn't make it so.  The Witcher's art design, LOL?  What, all 6 or 7 locations?  Or all 6 or 7 NPCs they recycled over and over and over?  The Witcher's art design was fine.  Nothing great.  Overall, it was very simple.  (sometimes I think people confuse cheap and amateurish as being "gritty" or "dark")  Not as epic as DAO's locations.  (how many locations were just fields of some sort?)  Nearly all of the Witcher's locations felt very simple, very small, and usually, very generic.

You haven't played the witcher, have you?? Because that paragraph is BS. Witcher had quite a few locations: 2 castles, 3
big city areas, two villages, a forest, a necropoly, a swamp, one open field, a shore, an island... probably a lot more, I haven't even started with the interiors, some of which, like Foltest's castle or the city sewers, were pretty awesome. Only the wooden part of the city felt a bit generic. So nothing cheap about all the others, they had usually more detailed architecture than DA, and best of all, didn't try to be "epic", they were just realistic. DA:O felt just so generic that eyes hurt. Let's see a few screenshots:

http://www.giery.eu/...p_witcher_4.jpg

http://images2.wikia...a-Lothering.jpg



http://images1.wikia.../c7/Denerim.JPG

http://www.giery.eu/...p_witcher_3.jpg

http://images4.wikia...Gate_inside.png

http://i1-games.soft...m-Trailer_8.jpg





Witcher didn't just look better, the difference was simply crushing even with the handful of NPC models.

LOL
at hating on the hero's journey storyline.  Laughable.  I guess that's
the hip thing to say nowadays, eh?  Yeah, DA is a mythology -- go figure
-- the story is mythological, too.  (I guess it can't compare to the
epic heroism of "fetch groceries over 10 years" that is the bulk of
DA2's profound story)

Mythologies, if you read any, aren't just about heroes killing stuff. That's one. DA is not a mythology, it's a game, a fanboy like you should have known. That's two. And your defence of the idiotic recyclable plot BW has been selling in all their previous games (join the Jedi/Spectres/Grey Wardens and go save the world from ancient evil) is just a proof of your low-brow prerences.

Oh, and if you tried to invoke some my anger by bashing DA2, you failed. DA2 is idiotic too.

Go
watch some cheap indie film if you want some whiny, emo, so-called "character driven" boredom. (most of which is usually just a celebration of dysfunction, under the guise of being some "insightful examination")

Sorry boy, but you don't have the grey matter to try psychoanalysis over the internet. You missed by a long shot.



If anything can be deducted from this little discussion, is that for some reason you really like ego-stroking plots, whereas I'm bored with them.  Wonder what could that mean.

Modifié par dzizass, 28 mars 2011 - 03:28 .

[Heinrich843]

Dear fellow forum users,

Today I have done the impossible. I have successfully streamlined the guitar. It no longer requires the ability to play an instrument. By hooking up a MP3 player to a speaker inside the guitar, I can just pick from three choices by pressing button awesome and a song plays. This is obviously more rewarding for any player of my guitar system, and I hope you will all purchase it for the low, low price of whatever I feel like. It's basically the guitar 2.0!

-Heintard

That's kinda how I saw DA2, you no longer need to really play it. (Kinda like Deadspace 2. It's a good movie maybe, but it's not really a good game.)

This interview seems to confirm the "direction" they were heading in.. again... contrary to what the lead dev had said.

[Grovermancer]

dzizass wrote...


You haven't played the witcher, have you?? Because that paragraph is BS. Witcher had quite a few locations: 2 castles, 3
big city areas, two villages, a forest, a necropoly, a swamp, one open field, a shore, an island... probably a lot more, I haven't even started with the interiors, some of which, like Foltest's castle or the city sewers, were pretty awesome.

Yup.  And it was okay.  Tedious at times.  Amateurish at others.  Enjoyable overall.

And most all of the locations were pretty much the same.  Not great, not bad.  So so.

dzizass wrote...
Only the wooden part of the city felt a bit generic. So nothing cheap about all the others, they had usually more detailed architecture than DA, and best of all, didn't try to be "epic", they were just realistic. DA:O felt just so generic that eyes hurt. Let's see a few screenshots:

LOL, "best of all," yeah, whatever.  Like putting the word "nice--" before anything, makes it "nice."

DA was made like a mythology.  You prolly shouldn't be playing mythologies, since based on your comments, you apparently don't have either the inclination or awareness to appreciate them, either story or design-wise.

dzizass wrote...

http://www.giery.eu/...p_witcher_4.jpg
http://images2.wikia...a-Lothering.jpg
http://images1.wikia.../c7/Denerim.JPG
http://www.giery.eu/...p_witcher_3.jpg
http://images4.wikia...Gate_inside.png
http://i1-games.soft...m-Trailer_8.jpg

Witcher didn't just look better, the difference was simply crushing even with the handful of NPC models.

Wow!!! 

These pics prove nothing... well, actually they almost prove my point. 

BTW, where's a pic of Orzamar?  Or of any of the Thaigs?  Or of Ostagar?  Or Haven?  Or the Deeproads?  Or any of the temples?  The Werewolf temple, the Ruined Temple?

Phht, what locations in the Witcher compare to any of that?

Truly epic, grandiose, archetypal locations... yet still varied, still personal.   Bout the only legit complaint a person could make, is that there could be a few more NPC's to liven certain locations up.  Denerim, basically.


BTW, you'll notice I've been talking about design.  Look and feel and theme.  I couldn't care less if something has "more pixels" or better resolution or whatever.

dzizass wrote...
Mythologies, if you read any, aren't just about heroes killing stuff. That's one. DA is not a mythology, it's a game, a fanboy like you should have known. That's two. And your defence of the idiotic recyclable plot BW has been selling in all their previous games (join the Jedi/Spectres/Grey Wardens and go save the world from ancient evil) is just a proof of your low-brow prerences.

Oh, and if you tried to invoke some my anger by bashing DA2, you failed. DA2 is idiotic too.

LOL, aw, look, a lil' name calling with some temper tantrum! 

I guess when ya got nothing else, that's all ya can do, eh?


Yeah, sorry, DA was made to take us on the Hero's Journey, through a mythological universe, using said story-telling techniques.  Do some research.  Or just stick to cheap, small, generic and amateurish medium, under the guise of it being "personal" or "real" or whatever.

dzizass wrote...

Sorry boy, but you don't have the grey matter to try psychoanalysis over the internet. You missed by a long shot.

Doesn't take much insight to see a frustrated, bitter person.

dzizass wrote...
If anything can be deducted from this little discussion, is that for some reason you really like ego-stroking plots, whereas I'm bored with them.  Wonder what could that mean.

Actually, to allow oneself to go along for such a journey may require one to let go of the ego.

Try it sometime.  You'll be happier.

Modifié par Grovermancer, 28 mars 2011 - 08:02 .

[OPini]

Ollys wrote...

Reusing Areas? I bet the Jews did it!

Dude I really hope you're either sarcastic or joking. If you aren't then you should really consult your psychologist and ask for a medicine for the "let's-blame-Jews-for-every-flaw-this-planet-has" syndrome.

[Altima Darkspells]

KalDurenik wrote...

Dont worry about ME3! It only have the same baking time (give or take a few months) as DA2... Im sure it will all work out great... ...

It's also a shooter on someone else's engine, which is apparently easier to create content for than Dragon Age.

For some reason.

Iwasdrunkbro wrote...

Q: why does every area in the game look the same?
A: we thought it would be better to focus on dlc instead of the core game so we can make more money.

This is kinda funny, considering the Exiled Prince's only unique dungeon had the same layout as all the others, but actually had different doodad placements, making it appear like a completely unique dungeon.  Shocking, isn't it?

Modifié par Altima Darkspells, 28 mars 2011 - 09:46 .

[Killer3000ad]

"Q: Does every battle consist of enemy waves? What is your answer for all those people that claim the lack of ability to know the number of waves and where they will pop up causes a battle that consists of reactions instead of tactics and planning?

A: Part of the tactical game is adapting to changes. The waves might feel different, but this is not necessarily a bad thing. I do not agree with those that think the wave pattern is terrible as of itself, but I do agree that there are things it's possible to do in order to improve the use of the waves. We can use them less often and improve the breeding mechanic, for instance. All in all I think the waves are an excellent addition to the game."

WTF????? Denial is the first sign of guilt. Why can't he admit the waves were a bad idea, and say they will take it out of DA3!?? What challenge? All i do is hold my party back and then bait the enemy, run the entire group into another far away room, allowing me to deal with the waves one at a time since they only spawn in the first room.

Is this the same guy responsible for the retarded assassins that stealth in your face with no counter to it and backstab warriors with plate armor down to 1/3 HP?

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 28 mars 2011 - 10:20 .

[didymos1120]

Killer3000ad wrote...

Denial is the first sign of guilt.

OK, no.  That's a terrible criterion for assessing "guilt".  I'm sure if you think about it for a second, you'll see why. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 28 mars 2011 - 11:17 .

[didymos1120]

Altima Darkspells wrote...
It's also a shooter on someone else's engine, which is apparently easier to create content for than Dragon Age.

For some reason.

That'd be because:

a. They have quite a lot of experience working with that same basic engine at this point.    When they didn't (ME1), we got a lot of copy/paste level design.

b. They haven't tried to drastically overhaul the graphical side of that engine and also do the same with the gameplay. 

c.  A lot of the graphical improvement between ME1 and ME2 was already possible with the engine as it was.  Again, they just weren't as adept at working with it when they made the first game.

Basically, they didn't bite off more than they could chew the second time around.

Modifié par didymos1120, 28 mars 2011 - 11:25 .