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Interview with DA2 lead level designer


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#351
Sable Phoenix

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Cyocide wrote...

It's like listening to a bunch of left-wing politicians: "You can't be trusted to make your own decisions


God I hate that this has veered into politics but: Really? You find the left to be more over-bearing than the right? I find them both to be corporate shills, TBH, but at least on the left no one's telling women what medical procedures are available to them.


You're right.  I should have said "progressive politicians", since statists and totalitarians can exist on both ends of the political spectrum.  My mistake.

It's almost funny how the current DA2 PR mirrors that modus operandi, though.

Regardless, I really just came here cuz I saw your Avatar from the main page and I wanted to say - God its mesmerizing. I love it.


Thanks!  I don't remember where I found it but it was a perfect fit.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 02 avril 2011 - 07:58 .


#352
Spankoman

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Great interview. Good on him to ask the questions we all wanted answers to. I didn't much care for the answers but at least he gave them.

This thread has deteriorated into ****, by the way.

EDIT - it's interesting that I can't say ****, but I can use jew pejoratively with no repercussions.

Modifié par Spankoman, 02 avril 2011 - 08:05 .


#353
Lotion Soronarr

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dzizass wrote...

Grovermancer wrote...

Yup.  And it was okay.  Tedious at times.  Amateurish at others.  Enjoyable overall.

And most all of the locations were pretty much the same.  Not great, not bad.  So so.

The locations were much more varied than the ones in DA:O, even though there wasn't any "dwarven" architecture or "elven" achitecture. If you compare e.g. the 3 castles in the game, each is completely different. If you take the castles in DA:O, they look basically the same (not a surprise since they use the same prefabs). Orzammar does look different than Denerim, but, again, in Orzammar every second building is the same prefab. Not to mention, that if a 100-metre wall is covered with one repetetive texture, it looks boring. The scale works against the design unfortunately.




Are we looking at the same game? Level design is HORRIBLE.

Kirkwall...every friggin house in hightown looks the same. Lowtown houses all look the same.
The alianage is a joke - there's a total of 6 houses there.
The dalish camp is barren with 3 avarels that couldn't fit a baby, let along work as a "moving house", no halla and with 10 dalish there.

At least in DA:O areas got proper attention. The alianage was a whole large map, not some tiny sub-area. The dalish camp was large and populated, in a lush forest.
Denerim actually looked like a mediaval city - with houses of different make and design.
DA:O as a whole had more color and variation.

#354
Perfect-Kenshin

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I wish I were the lead designer for this game.To think that you can get paid big money just for copy and pasting!

#355
Sable Phoenix

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[quote]
Q: What were the main designing objectives for DA2?

A: Everyone were very enthusiastic about creating a game which will be more accessible for a wider audience, without giving up the core components of the original game, while trying to add to the player pool for this game those people who felt intimidated by elements of DAO - such as the UI.
This is especially true for the console version of DA2 - we wanted to make the game more responsive and fun when you use a controller.
Another main objective was to improve the look of the game. DAO was in development for a long time and was lagging behind a little in the graphics field when it came out. We tried to improve all of the game's graphical aspects including textures, models and animations, while giving the game a more unique art style.
[/quote]

Translation: "We dumbed down the gameplay to try and lure in console-based God of War players, and simplified the art style to fit within stricter technical limitations.  Oh, and we also tried to make it 'cooler' by adding lots of spikes and pointy bits to everything."

[quote]
Q: It seems that DA2 has learned a few things from its stepbrother, Mass Effect. If that is true, can you provide examples?

A: In contrast to popular belief, only few design elements were borrowed directly from ME. One is the talking hero and the other is the dialogue wheel. All other changes and refinements were completely independent, although a few of them may look similar, such as the customizing options for the hero and his companions.
[/quote]

I'm dumbfounded they actually expect us to believe this.  Both teams are part of the same company and are furthermore both obligated to meet the requirements of their publisher, EA.  The influence of Mass Effect 2 is glaringly obvious in DA2, from instanced linear missions to the non-customizable companions to the dialogue wheel and voiced protagonist.

[quote]
Q: It seems DA2 abandons the free origin choice and its predecessor's variety of powers in favor of a defined and dubbed main character. What was the thought line behind this change?

A: In this game we wanted to tell a specific story, more personal. A talking hero is a very strong thing and so is a specific man with a history and family of his own. This is a different approach which meant we had to give up the freedom of the character designs. The team believes that overall this approach is better and developes the genre towards more interesting directions.
[/quote]

Translation: "What RPG players really want, even though they say they don't, is less character customization and a more linear story!  With our approach to DA2, we're giving it to them, and if they don't like it, they're just too dumb to realize how superior it is."

[quote]
Q: Kirkwall is a very small area compared to vast Ferelden we could play during the first game. Have you prefferd giving the city more depth over creating more places where you can hang around? Can you give an example?

A: This time we tried a different approach - enable the players to investigate only one main area, which has more depth and responsiveness. You can compare it to GTA game, where you are always in the same city, or maybe even compare it to Assassin's Creed to a certain degree. The player gets the chance to learn about the history, characters and secrets of one place instead of visiting a place briefly once before moving on to the next destination in his journey. It also enables a story arc which has a central link - a lot of things happen during the same time and not a long and flat timeline of events.
[/quote]

I can agree that these objectives are something that would have been very cool to experience if the game had delivered on them.  Unfortunately, it utterly failed to do so.  The gameworld is totally unresponsive to the player's actions outside of the story missions.

[quote]
Q: Why are the city's streets not as crowded as one can expect from a city as congested as Kirkwall? Is it due to technical limitations?

A: Yes, this is completely due to technical limitation. We had more people crowding the streets in early stages of development but we had to cut the number to be able to cope with the limitations of game consoles and low-end computers.
[/quote]

This is exactly why Dragon Age:Origins, which was designed from the ground up for the superior power and flexibility of the PC gaming platform, is superior.

[quote]
Q: Could prolonging development time for the game result in a better variety within the city itself and avoiding reused areas, as seen in the game?

A: Obviously, more time would enable more areas and bigger variation. Honestly, we did not expect this to be such a big deal, but it seems the subject gave rise to a significant number of complaints by both critics and players alike. We listen to the reviews and we will try to address the issue in future games.
[/quote]

You have got to be kidding me.  There are plenty of facepalm moments in this interview, but this one line just floored me.  There is no way they did not anticipate the response they got for this.  If they just admitted that EA rushed them and they were forced to recycle environments to meet the release date, I'd have a lot more respect for them.

[quote]
Q: Does every battle consist of enemy waves? What is your answer for all those people that claim the lack of ability to know the number of waves and where they will pop up causes a battle that consists of reactions instead of tactics and planning?

A: Part of the tactical game is adapting to changes. The waves might feel different, but this is not necessarily a bad thing. I do not agree with those that think the wave pattern is terrible as of itself, but I do agree that there are things it's possible to do in order to improve the use of the waves. We can use them less often and improve the breeding mechanic, for instance. All in all I think the waves are an excellent addition to the game.
[/quote]

Translation:  "We don't care what the players say, waves are so much better!  You don't know that you like them better, but you really do!"

[quote]
Q: Why is the tactical game view unavailable in this game? Is the reason technical, aesthetic or a design problem?

A: Support for upper angle of view means creating the graphics in such a way that'll enable cutting the upper parts of the geometry, when you use that option. This causes a decline in quality because it's impossible, or at least very hard, to create the same environments in this way. In short - it was a difficult decision but we believe it was right.
[/quote]

So being able to look at the ceiling takes precedence over gameplay and ease of use.  Good to know.  I notice you didn't explain how, exactly, this results in an increase in quality, or what the decline in quality actually is with DA:O's approach.

[quote]
Q: Blood Magic is a forbidden art in the world of DA2, but the main character uses it freely during the game against civilians and Templars. How is that logical?

A: Well, sometimes you have to give up perfect inner logic to make the game more fun. This is one of these cases. Anyway, this can be explained by the fact that the champion is someone who can do whatever he wants. No one is bold enough to lecture him about that. This is kind of like when the authorities ignore certain crimes because the criminal's aid is of great importance.
[/quote]

In other words you were too lazy to put the effort into making it all make sense.  If this is really the explanation in-game, then give it to us in game.  But given that the Chantry and Templars are commanded by God to eliminate blood magic, I don't think even that would be believable, so you guys figured it was better to just ignore it.

[quote]
Q: Why is it no longer possible to manage your party's gear? Why is it that an armor worn by Hawke cannot be given to other characters?

A: There are many benefits of keeping a unique appearance for the companions: it gives them presence during cutscenes and dialogues and it's even useful during combat - they're easier to tell apart that way. I know it limits the possible customization but there are still many other elements you can upgrade such as weapons, accessories and even upgrade the main armor's stats.
[/quote]

Yeah, because we just can't read those names floating above the party members' heads or make out what weapons they're holding.  Without a static appearance for every party member we'd completely forget which character was our sword-and-board warrior and which was our archer.

Translation: "We ran out of time and money, but it's actually better this way!  You can improve the stats even if it doesn't show up on the character model, what are you complaining about?"

[quote]
Q: How much content is in DA2? Does it even get close to DAO's 100 hours of gameplay?

A: Everyone plays the game differently, and so the game's length varies greatly. In the end, DA2 is very long and can be prolonged by replays. It may not be as lengthy as its predecessor, but it is certainly epic RPG, far longer than many other games out there in the market.
[/quote]

Translation: "No it's not as long but I won't specify exactly how much less of a game you're paying for, because that just doesn't matter!"

[quote]
Q: How were DAO's DLCs accepted? Did it influence your plans for such content for DA2?

A: The DLCs have been very popular. We broke all kinds of inner records at EA in this area. Of course DLCs are now an integral part of the game. We want players to continue enjoying the game as long as possible and DLC is the best way to achieve this goal.
[/quote]

DLCs are now an integral part of the game, i.e., a built-in money grab.  DA2 is so ridiculously blatant at this, with all sorts of release-day DLC content that could have (and probably would have) been included in the core game otherwise.

"We want players to continue enjoying the game as long as possible and DLC is the best way to achieve this goal, except for player customization tools like with Neverwinter Nights or the Elder Scrolls titles, which have had greater longevity than any other games and will still be played long after DA2 is collecting dust on gamers' shelves."

[quote]
OK that's it! Lengthy post but I think the community deserves to know these things, especially since each interview discussion around here gets quite a few reactions.
[/quote]

Thank you tons for translating this and putting it up here.  For once, we see an interviewer asking hard questions and not pulling any punches, calling them out on the shortcomings of the title.  It's sad to see the evasions and PR spin coming from yet another BioWare mouth, though.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 02 avril 2011 - 08:28 .


#356
Lotion Soronarr

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Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

I wish I were the lead designer for this game.To think that you can get paid big money just for copy and pasting!


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

#357
SoR82

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I was in tears by the end of this interview.

Does he really believe wwhat he says? I cant help but think he cant possibly believe what hes say surely... how could they possibly think peiple who had paid good money for this atrocity wouldnt object to the repeating locales?

And as if the Templars care that this moron in Darkspawn armour is the "champion" they have a sacred duty to follow.... and yet the entire population of this town stands and watches a bloodmage do anything he pleases lol

Modifié par SoR82, 03 avril 2011 - 12:09 .


#358
Vice-Admiral von Titsling

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SoR82 wrote...

I was in tears by the end of this interview.


Me too, but I suspect our tears were caused by vastly different emotions.

#359
SoR82

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Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

SoR82 wrote...

I was in tears by the end of this interview.


Me too, but I suspect our tears were caused by vastly different emotions.


 I was crying with laughter through the sheer hilairty and disbelief of what I was reading!

#360
Vice-Admiral von Titsling

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SoR82 wrote...
I was crying with laughter through the sheer hilairty and disbelief of what I was reading!


Mine were sad tears :(

#361
SphereofSilence

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I cannot believe he said waves are a good addition. He may be absolutely clueless on the real issue with combat - it's too repetitive and boring. You get essentially the same few types of opponents making constant 2 wave-patterns, zerging your party in swarms, that's where the game difficulty comes in, not from the ruleset of D&D of yesteryears, or big variety of enemies with different abilities as in Diablo. It's simply not fun.

#362
Lykang

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"lead designer's" answers are just facepalm

#363
Just_For_Lulz

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A: This time we tried a different approach - enable the players to investigate only one main area, which has more depth and responsiveness. You can compare it to GTA game, where you are always in the same city, or maybe even compare it to Assassin's Creed to a certain degree. 

Wait... does he seriously compare Kirkwall to Liberty-City or, say,  Florence? Wow... :blink: I mean exploring a box is not the same thing as exploring a city, where you can actually get lost... Has he even played those two games? Just... wow...:blink:

Modifié par Just_For_Lulz, 03 avril 2011 - 08:03 .


#364
OPini

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Just_For_Lulz wrote...


A: This time we tried a different approach - enable the players to investigate only one main area, which has more depth and responsiveness. You can compare it to GTA game, where you are always in the same city, or maybe even compare it to Assassin's Creed to a certain degree. 

Wait... does he seriously compare Kirkwall to Liberty-City or, say,  Florence? Wow... :blink: I mean exploring a box is not the same thing as exploring a city, where you can actually get lost... Has he even played those two games? Just... wow...:blink:


I must agree with that, I'm playing Assassin's Creed Brotherhood ATM (and I've played GTA in the past of course) and the entire game takes place in Rome (which is 3 times as big as Florence), yet the city is so huge and open you don't feel limited in any way. If you want to make an entire game in one city, it has to feel big, interesting and dynamic, and Assassin's Creed definetly delivers this feeling as opposed to DA2.

#365
Kimberly Shaw

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How did I miss this thread?? Holy crap. This interview is the smoking gun.

#366
Horus Blackheart

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How did I miss this thread?? Holy crap. This interview is the smoking gun.

Does this mean we can get the um to intervine and stop the exessive stremlining of rpgs? (please)

#367
Kimberly Shaw

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Q: Blood Magic is a forbidden art in the world of DA2, but the main character uses it freely during the game against civilians and Templars. How is that logical?

A: Well, sometimes you have to give up perfect inner logic  to make the game more fun.


The A: should read as:

A: Well, sometimes you have to give up perfect inner logic  any ounce of logic to make the game more fun.

What a douchebag this guy is. Sorry if that's an attack and gets me banned, but seriously it makes me never want to play a title where he is a designer ever.

Modifié par Kimberly Shaw, 07 avril 2011 - 05:29 .


#368
Horus Blackheart

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Kimberly Shaw wrote...

Q: Blood Magic is a forbidden art in the world of DA2, but the main character uses it freely during the game against civilians and Templars. How is that logical?

A: Well, sometimes you have to give up perfect inner logic  to make the game more fun.


The A: should read as:

A: Well, sometimes you have to give up perfect inner logic  any ounce of logic to make the game more fun.

What a douchebag this guy is. Sorry if that's an attack and gets me banned, but seriously it makes me never want to play a title where he is a designer ever.



remember he was breifed/ threatened by awesome botton EA pr guy.

#369
Abispa

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I'm assuming that just because he designed the levels doesn't mean he knew exactly how the story played out. It is possible he assumed that the story writers would come of for some perfectly good reasons why blood magic could be used in the game and why the city would look the same over a decade. Too bad that didn't happen.

And as much as I like the game, even I have to admit that the level designs were the weakest part of this game.

#370
harrier25699

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 Thank you OP for translating and posting this interview.  It explains a lot about why DA2 is the way it is over from Origins.  I hope the designers realize that console gamers are very different from PC gamers before they embark on further titles in the ME/DA series.  It's like canivores and vegetarians, both have very different tastes.  Throw into that the expectations of any who played the excellent Origins, being served a carrot flavoured steak that's only half the size of the first meal is not going to go down well with everyone.  

Modifié par harrier25699, 07 avril 2011 - 06:42 .


#371
Psython

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Wow the current Bioware team is either completely daft or in some sort of denial. Thats the only way I can explain it. These interviews are like a slap in the face to anyone who can think.

Its obvious why certain decisions were made, to put out a product faster and cheaper. Of course, the blame rests on the producers and lead designers, who are the ones who make the decisions. Most of the people who actually worked on the game are very talented and deserve better leadership. DA2 was an average game for me but way below Bioware's previous standard of quality. All the PR spin in these interviews is honestly embarrasing for the company in my opinion.

#372
neppakyo

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Can't believe I missed this either. My jaw dropped from the sheer idiocy of the interview. I laughed at the weak defence of not including the isometric camera (Oo, our ceilings are pretty! LOOK AT THEM!), and the logic failure of the blood mage, and in general apostate mage running around.

This made me sad. :(

#373
PretentiousCat

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Someone hand that man a shovel! He's obviously not digging himself deeper fast enough.

#374
Horus Blackheart

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PretentiousCat wrote...

Someone hand that man a shovel! He's obviously not digging himself deeper fast enough.


I award the designer the golden shovel award (muilty use with spray on gold plating )

* only one per pr gaff laidlaw is to awesome to get one :P

Modifié par Horus Blackheart, 07 avril 2011 - 07:40 .


#375
Lotion Soronarr

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PretentiousCat wrote...

Someone hand that man a shovel! He's obviously not digging himself deeper fast enough.


At least now we know what caused that earthquake in Japan.