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[galvdogs]

Since I can’t find one I thought I’d start a thread that discusses the physical setting of DAII, especially in terms of it being scaled down from Origins. I’ll try to cover all the good and bad points I recognised in what could best be described as a disorganized open letter. Feel free to express agreement, disagreement and most importantly your own unique opinions.
 
I always thought covering a whole country in a single game kind of cheapened the world because it only really covered the most major and world-changing locations, likely still leaving a bunch of interesting locations the devs can no longer use because we already feel like we’ve “cleared” Fereldan (well I did anyway). Setting the game on a smaller scale whilst still having a bunch of unique locations showed us that you can still have an interesting game world without “expending” an entire country, and it showed us how much we probably missed in Fereldan that we likely won’t be going back to, at least for a while.
 
Also, I felt that the setting suited the story, which was more character-based and political. I don’t think you could’ve captured the politics and the themes of mage vs. templars and family bonds if you were wandering throughout the Free Marches all the time.
 
Finally, I think the setting also suited the characters. Having a smaller setting helped in emphasizing that the characters had their own lives and their own goals, instead of throwing away their normal lives to help stop a Blight. It also suited their personal plotlines; I don’t think it would feel right if helping them out involved travelling half-way across the country when they have a whole life to leave behind. Also, having a smaller setting added depth to non-companion characters. If you were only in Kirkwall a fraction of the time I doubt characters like Hawke’s mother and Meredith would have nearly as much depth.
 
On the other hand, the setting had its fair share of problems. For one, a lot of the environments are too similar. Lowtown, Darktown and the Docks had the same colour scheme, similar architecture and almost an identical theme. Hightown was more unique, but not by much.
 
Also, considering the game was set over 10 years we experienced next to no change in the city. The only change I noticed was the statue in the Docks after defeating the Qunari. We are told finding the Dwarven gold changed the balance of power in Kirkwall. Did it? Nope. We are told that romancing Merrill causes a stir amongst the nobles. Did it? Nope. No changes occur as a result of catching a serial killer, protecting the city’s biggest mine or saving/killing countless mages. Even if more people appeared on the streets at night after you wiped out generic gang number 4 it would have made a big difference to the player’s impression of his own actions. Alas, it was not meant to be.
 
All the locations outside of Kirkwall were also a bit to similar to my liking. The only differences in terrain seemed to revolve around trees, sand and proximity to water. Even if I’m being unfair in this assumption, just look at Origins. The different areas in that game were completely different in look and feel. In DAII it just didn’t feel like I was somewhere especially unique. The Deep Roads (in my opinion the best environment) and to a lesser extent the Bone Pit were not guilty of this, but Sundermount and the Wounded Coast were way too similar in feel.
 
Compounding on this problem is the general lack of landmarks. A lot of the areas just felt like hallways where the walls alternated between stone, trees and rock. There weren’t really any defining landmarks to make these places interesting and unique. Hightown was the most interesting, with a clearly-defined marketplace, Chantry courtyard and a far-off view of the gallows, and it was generally more open than the other areas. A lot of the other places didn’t have anything that I responded to with awe. For example, apparently the cliffs of Kirkwall are decorated with statues representing the Old Gods, as well as 2 giant statues called the twins. If I saw these for more than 10 seconds in the game then I certainly didn’t know what they were, or they were obscured. There should have been at least several points in the game where you saw these landmarks fully in all their glory, and a character specifically explains what they are, because otherwise we probably won’t recognise them. Also, having a smaller setting should allow us to view the city as a whole at a few points in the game (the map does not count); after all this is the place we are expected to develop a relationship with. Even more importantly, we should have been able to view the city from places outside of Kirkwall (especially when one of these places is mountain outside the city). It would have made the places so much more interesting to go to and would allow the player to have more of an attachment to the city. It’s a wasted opportunity if you ask me.
 
I won’t say much about recycled dungeons, but when you have a game where a lot of the environments are similar and have the same colour scheme, you really need to diversify the layout as much as humanly possible.
 
Long story short, I believe the physical setting of DAII compared to Origins was a great idea, but it probably could have been executed a lot better. I think maybe a lot of them could be fixed up in DLC? If you think by this post that I am one of the people who don’t like the game, you are wrong. I absolutely loved DAII and lot of the issues I have listed are personal gripes rather than game or story-breaking issues; so don’t misunderstand, I quite enjoyed the setting as well as every other aspect of the game despite the few unimportant flaws. I just had to express my frustration is all. That’s all people seem to do on these forums anyway.

[Foolsfolly]

You know, in another thread I just said something about the setting. So..I'm going to copy-paste here.

Kirkwall as a setting wasn't properly explored. We have a lot of lore about it, there was a timeline that BioWare put out in the threads and their site months ago about its past, none of that is important or even noticeable outside of the gallows.

This was a Tevinter city, turned freed city-state. There's a long history of blood mages. The Veil is thin here. The Enigma of Kirkwall explains that the layout of the city is a glyph. All these things are interesting but without the story ever touching on these facts they may as well not exist.

And again, Kirkwall never has any meaningful change. If they wanted Kirkwall to be as much of a character as anyone else then it should have changed over the years. The dreadful Fable 2 game allowed for your rather good or evil choices in the beginning of the game to alter the city of Bowerstone. Even after the opening setting prices made things clean or crime ridden slums.

A little attention to the setting and building the story to connect more with the fantastic and interesting backstory they created for the city would have made Kirkwall more enjoyable, riveting, and feel fully alive.

That's my opinion of Kirkwall. Great idea, great backstory, but poorly implemented.

[Maria Caliban]

You know what did a city with character well? (please don't hit me) The Witcher.

Hightown worked. Lowtown was a bit of a bother while Darktown was... always sunny and bright.

[The Angry One]

The problem with Darktown (this applies to the underground areas and lowtown houses too) is that bright yellow woodpanel texture they used.
It's utter crap, looks fake and too bright.

[Foolsfolly]

....I'm going to have to play the Witcher aren't I? Despite having no interest in it. Too many times has that game come up for as long as I've been on these boards (roughly the time ME2 came out).

[TheBlackBaron]

Foolsfolly wrote...

You know, in another thread I just said something about the setting. So..I'm going to copy-paste here.

Kirkwall as a setting wasn't properly explored. We have a lot of lore about it, there was a timeline that BioWare put out in the threads and their site months ago about its past, none of that is important or even noticeable outside of the gallows.

This was a Tevinter city, turned freed city-state. There's a long history of blood mages. The Veil is thin here. The Enigma of Kirkwall explains that the layout of the city is a glyph. All these things are interesting but without the story ever touching on these facts they may as well not exist.

And again, Kirkwall never has any meaningful change. If they wanted Kirkwall to be as much of a character as anyone else then it should have changed over the years. The dreadful Fable 2 game allowed for your rather good or evil choices in the beginning of the game to alter the city of Bowerstone. Even after the opening setting prices made things clean or crime ridden slums.

A little attention to the setting and building the story to connect more with the fantastic and interesting backstory they created for the city would have made Kirkwall more enjoyable, riveting, and feel fully alive.

That's my opinion of Kirkwall. Great idea, great backstory, but poorly implemented.

That pretty much sums my own thoughts on the matter. 

In some ways it actually symbolizes much of DA2 to me - good ideas, poor implementation - but that's neither here nor there. 

[Maria Caliban]

Foolsfolly wrote...

....I'm going to have to play the Witcher aren't I? Despite having no interest in it. Too many times has that game come up for as long as I've been on these boards (roughly the time ME2 came out).

No, you don't need to.

If you want to see great cities: Assassin's Creed 2.

[hurricaneez1]

Gotta agree with the general feeling here....too much time in the city was not a good thing. It would have been one thing if you had a entire city to explore but, in this case, you just had a few very limited areas of that city. Just too much repetition....which is my biggest complaint with the game as a whole.

[hurricaneez1]

BTW....you must play The Witcher. most underrated game available.

[TJPags]

The setting? Hmmm. . . . .Lowtown has, apparently, one house. Hightown has, apparently, one mansion. The various outdoor settings have numrous entrances into the mountain which, apparently, all lead to the same cave.

Did I miss anything?

[hurricaneez1]

TJPags wrote...

The setting? Hmmm. . . . .Lowtown has, apparently, one house. Hightown has, apparently, one mansion. The various outdoor settings have numrous entrances into the mountain which, apparently, all lead to the same cave.

Did I miss anything?

Nope...cant say you did

[Blackout62]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

....I'm going to have to play the Witcher aren't I? Despite having no interest in it. Too many times has that game come up for as long as I've been on these boards (roughly the time ME2 came out).

No, you don't need to.

If you want to see great cities: Assassin's Creed 2.

This, I took a Reinassance Art History class and the entire class I was just surprised how AC2 got everything right from architecture to wardrobe.

[The Angry One]

hurricaneez1 wrote...

BTW....you must play The Witcher. most underrated game available.

Can I choose to not play as the white haired emo jackass? No?
Pass!

[Foolsfolly]

Played Assassin's Creed 2. Those were nice cities.

The Rockstar games always have great city layouts that are both realistic feeling why at the same time game-y.

[KnightofPhoenix]

TJPags wrote...

The setting? Hmmm. . . . .Lowtown has, apparently, one house. Hightown has, apparently, one mansion. The various outdoor settings have numrous entrances into the mountain which, apparently, all lead to the same cave.

Did I miss anything?

Darktown with its clinic!

And the catapults that are hidden all over the city that rain thugs on you.

[The Angry One]

And it's never night time in Darktown even when you go during the night!
Obviously Darktown has the world's only magic sun generator!

[TheBlackBaron]

I visited D.C. last summer - Fallout 3 compressed the area and that led to some weird things but I was struck by how well overall the details matched up with the actual city.

And, of course, AC2 is just absolutely top-notch. Ubisoft really showed their work.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 23 mars 2011 - 02:02 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Angry One wrote...

And it's never night time in Darktown even when you go during the night!
Obviously Darktown has the world's only magic sun generator!

Explanation: "Um...the veil is thin there!" 

[TJPags]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

TJPags wrote...

The setting? Hmmm. . . . .Lowtown has, apparently, one house. Hightown has, apparently, one mansion. The various outdoor settings have numrous entrances into the mountain which, apparently, all lead to the same cave.

Did I miss anything?

Darktown with its clinic!

And the catapults that are hidden all over the city that rain thugs on you.

Catapults, huh?

See, I always thought there was this big tube system, with a line of thugs, and a guy sitting in a chair looking at a map saying "ooo, ooo, send them to the Chantry Courtyward!!!  Quick!!!!!!!!!"

[payroo]

sigh... with so many things in DAII, the initial concept had so much promise but the execution could have been so much better.

The first time I saw Kirkwall I was very impressed! That cutscene where you sail in past the statues... but after 60 hours, it did start to wear a bit thin. Even after 6 years the guys in the Hanged Man were still propositioning poor Nora the serving girl!

[Gavinthelocust]

hurricaneez1 wrote...

BTW....you must play The Witcher. most underrated game available.

Anything that has sex cards deserves to be underrated and ignored by most.

Anyway if it wasn't for the constant reusing of areas I would've loved Kirkwall.

Modifié par Gavinthelocust, 23 mars 2011 - 02:10 .

[DirewolfX]

I think this is a pretty good summary of the setting. More external locations, more varied art for the internal locations, less recycled dungeons (especially for main plot quests), but actually setting the story in a smaller location worked great.

[KnightofPhoenix]

TJPags wrote...
Catapults, huh?

See, I always thought there was this big tube system, with a line of thugs, and a guy sitting in a chair looking at a map saying "ooo, ooo, send them to the Chantry Courtyward!!!  Quick!!!!!!!!!"

You know, if they didn't die despite having ridiculous numbers, I'd say that makes them almost badass.

[hurricaneez1]

I wouldnt have minded spending a majority of my time in Kirkwell but there just wasnt enough variation to justify setting 95% of the game there. Would adding 2 or 3 more areas in addition to the Bone Pit, the coast and the mountain killed them?

[TJPags]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

TJPags wrote...
Catapults, huh?

See, I always thought there was this big tube system, with a line of thugs, and a guy sitting in a chair looking at a map saying "ooo, ooo, send them to the Chantry Courtyward!!!  Quick!!!!!!!!!"

You know, if they didn't die despite having ridiculous numbers, I'd say that makes them almost badass.

There was a lot about this game that was ALMOST badass.

The setting being just one of them.