151 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

There is a lot of "inbreeding" going on in gaming.

[KalDurenik]

Luckily Bioware was not the only rpg dev out there. There are indie devs hell i have played alot of them lately and they are great... Sadly they lack the polish and smoothness as from a big company but hey atleast they are good rpg's! :>

[back pain]

AlastairsQuEeN wrote...

Bioware's RPGs are FOR SURE devolving and DYING a miserable death. Thanks guys, for not doing DA:O ANY justice. Jeez!

There is not such thing as "devolving", the games are evolving in a way that you do not think is financially viable. 

[OriginalTibs]

Icinix wrote...

I just don't know what to believe anymore...

A game, like a book, is heavily dependent on how well it is played (or read).

[ExiledMimic]

Romantiq wrote...

Bioware's "rpgs" are definitely becoming dumbed down. Starting from Mass Effect 2. Love the game with all my heart but I don't consider it a good an rpg. More a duck n cover shooter.

I can completely agree on the point.  I loath first person shooters, but third person shooting or action I enjoy.  But the only element of the original Mass Effect that made me want to chew nails was driving the stupid car around everywhere.  I felt like Evel Kinevil in a remake of Driving Miss Daisy.  Maybe Mass Effect 2 went a hair too far into the realm of mainstreaming, but it was certainly a much better quality game than DA2.  Which feels like a linear kill-em-all that happened to slap in conversation choice for filler.

[TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain]

"Join us brother's and sister's, join us in the shadows in which we stand, join us and know that if you should die today, we shall join you one day as well." -Alistair
Why did I quote the grey warden joining ceremony? Simple it says all that needs to be said. For me DA:O was the funeral of RPG's. Grand and amazing the last worth while game. Skyrim is going to be like the day we bury the genre.
RPG's are dying. The new generation of people are the murderer's we are the victims.
All companies are doing the same, mainstreaming and feeding into the casual crowd. As always the true fans suffer. Its as if they put Arnold Swartzeneger in a romance movie. The masses would love it because they love him and romances but the people with an actual I.Q. would look up and say, " The horror!!!!! Oh my god the horror!!!!"

[supertouch]

what everybody (even the developers) fails to realize is that companies like bioware don't need to overhaul a genre in order to attract a wider audience. dragon age origins had already established a rapport with the "console generation" and the population of long-devoted rpg fans hasn't dwindled. simply substituting one thriving camp for another is a logical misstep. 

[SuperMedbh]

AlanC9 wrote...

Soilborn88 wrote...
I'm not saying the looting system was perfect. I for one liked finding new equipment and new mods and what I didn't need I sold or Omni-geled it. It wasn't a big deal, but hell completely destroying the looting system CERTAINLY doesn't solve the problem. In my mind that makes it MORE boring.

Mass Effect 2 had no looting system.

No, ME2 didn't; just an upgrade system, which suited me fine.

We simply disagree on whether loot is worth having. I thnk I'm more of a radical on this topic than Lunatic is.

There's days that I feel this way, too.  ME2's break with inventory systems was fairly radical--  like it or hate it, I think it's hard to dispute that not having an inventory system was something of a first for a AAA game marketed as an RPG.

Actually, I'm surprised they kept the whole looting concept at all.  Shep spends far too much time hacking ATM terminals and wall safes, imho.  Finding new tech fits in with the narrative, looting doesn't.

DA2 only went halfway, and perhaps that's a failing.  Really, about the only change in inventory is the fact that you can't equip armor on your companions but instead upgrade what they have.  Looting remains the same, and weapons/accessories all come from drops for the most part, just as in DAO (or any other RPG)  For this dramatic change, Bioware seems to earned the hatred of trad cRPG fans everywhere.

I'd say, if they're going to change things up, go radical.  I do think the days of RPGs as we know them are numbered--  might as well explore different paradigms rather than trying to bend the old ones to fit.

[BlameBot]

But, Sheperd needs coin. How else is he going to afford that nifty upgrade if he doesn't steal from all those corpses that don't need it anymore? Hell, sometimes he stole things when they were right in front of him. Remember that wall safe you hacked from that nice couple trying to flee the plague in Omega? They were standing right there, you cracked their wall safe, and stole their money.

I bet you didn't even feel bad, neither.

[SuperMedbh]

BlameBot wrote...

But, Sheperd needs coin. How else is he going to afford that nifty upgrade if he doesn't steal from all those corpses that don't need it anymore? Hell, sometimes he stole things when they were right in front of him. Remember that wall safe you hacked from that nice couple trying to flee the plague in Omega? They were standing right there, you cracked their wall safe, and stole their money.

I bet you didn't even feel bad, neither.

Oh you mean, the couple Shep loots one scene before threatening/scolding some vagrants for....looting?

[BlameBot]

That's the one. I didn't even feel bad about scolding them. Then I hit up the ATM on my way down. More for me.

[hexaligned]

Evolving? Mediocre action/console RPG's have been around for decades. DA2 is nothing new. If you like average console RPG's more power to ya, at best it's stagnation though.

[AlanC9]

SuperMedbh wrote...

Actually, I'm surprised they kept the whole looting concept at all.  Shep spends far too much time hacking ATM terminals and wall safes, imho.  Finding new tech fits in with the narrative, looting doesn't.

Agreed. Finding new technology is one thing, looting cash is another. I don't see any reason why ME2 should have had shops in the first place; Cerberus should have bought all those upgrades before the game starts. There's an obvious problem with some siedquests if you go that route, since cash is the reason Shepard's doing those quests. My feeling is that's a problem with the sidequests themselves; Shepard isn't a mercenary and shouldn't act like one.

DA2 only went halfway, and perhaps that's a failing.  Really, about the only change in inventory is the fact that you can't equip armor on your companions but instead upgrade what they have.  Looting remains the same, and weapons/accessories all come from drops for the most part, just as in DAO (or any other RPG)  For this dramatic change, Bioware seems to earned the hatred of trad cRPG fans everywhere.

I'd say, if they're going to change things up, go radical.  I do think the days of RPGs as we know them are numbered--  might as well explore different paradigms rather than trying to bend the old ones to fit.

Yeah, that's my take on it too. Going halfway gets you all of the downside without actually giving up the loot paradigm.

[AlanC9]

SuperMedbh wrote...

BlameBot wrote...

But, Sheperd needs coin. How else is he going to afford that nifty upgrade if he doesn't steal from all those corpses that don't need it anymore? Hell, sometimes he stole things when they were right in front of him. Remember that wall safe you hacked from that nice couple trying to flee the plague in Omega? They were standing right there, you cracked their wall safe, and stole their money.

I bet you didn't even feel bad, neither.

Oh you mean, the couple Shep loots one scene before threatening/scolding some vagrants for....looting?

Heh. I actually felt worse on Horizon. Here I am trying to save the colony -- and breaking into safes while I'm at it. I guess Shepard charges for rescue missions.

Edit: nothing wrong with giving a player temptation to do bad stuff. But shouldn't you get Renegade points for this sort of thing. Actually, that wouldn't work either -- if you're trying to play Paragon getting Renegade points doesn't hurt you. You'd have to either take away Paragon points for looting or give out Paragon points for not looting.

Modifié par AlanC9, 23 mars 2011 - 08:02 .

[BlameBot]

How else are they going to acquire their weapons? Find them in a random box in an out-of-the-way location in some warehouse during a mission?

Modifié par BlameBot, 23 mars 2011 - 07:55 .

[Brenus]

back pain wrote...

AlastairsQuEeN wrote...

Bioware's RPGs are FOR SURE devolving and DYING a miserable death. Thanks guys, for not doing DA:O ANY justice. Jeez!

There is not such thing as "devolving", the games are evolving in a way that you do not think is financially viable. 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolution_(biology)

Theres no such thing as evolution in video games either you smartass, but no one cares about that and they keep on throwing that word around.

Therefore, the term 'devolving' is a perfectly acceptable description when talking about things getting worse over time that arent related to biology.

Modifié par Brenus, 23 mars 2011 - 08:05 .

[lobi]

Choosing option 3= Being Murdered

[AlanC9]

BlameBot wrote...

How else are they going to acquire their weapons? Find them in a random box in an out-of-the-way location in some warehouse during a mission?

Good question. They coudln't possibly find their wapons in the ship's armory -- that's just crazy talk.

[BlameBot]

I mean new weapons, silly. Everyone knows that you can't just buy guns, you have to find them somewhere. Preferably out of the way. Or in a giant pile of goo.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Bah! Any game where I don't roll a 20-sided die (the numerals on which I colored in myself with the crayon that came with the game) to find out if I hit something isn't a real RPG.

[BlameBot]

I must have missed that crayon.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

The blue box with the dragon on front. It was wedged somewhere in there between the white box digest version and the full-sized hardbacks. Now that I think about it, some of those boxes didn't come with dice--the came with a strip of paper with numbers from 1-20. You could cut them apart and then draw them randomly.

[AllThatJazz]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Bah! Any game where I don't roll a 20-sided die (the numerals on which I colored in myself with the crayon that came with the game) to find out if I hit something isn't a real RPG.

This. Totally and utterly this. I still remember my first PnP session ever, when I found out that dice can have more and less than six faces. It was a little ... discombobulating. 

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 23 mars 2011 - 08:22 .

[PoisonDagger]

Well looking back at all the amazing rpgs for the nes and snes like earthbound chrono trigger secret of mana and some of the earlier ffs...and the difficulty not even being a option for most. I would have to say that they are dieing.

[Khayness]

BobSmith101 wrote...

There is a lot of "inbreeding" going on in gaming.

Yeah, they slap action before every genre now.

Action RPGs, Action Horror, Action Dating Simulator, Action Board Game.