I'm guessing she is the Formless. An extremely powerful demon which is supposed to be bound along with three others of its kind (except Gaxkang, which has somehow been unbound).
What is Flemeth?
Débuté par
AcidRelic
, mars 23 2011 03:10
Retour en haut
#27
Posté 18 avril 2011 - 07:41
BigEvil
-
- Members
- 1 191 messages
Well, she does seem to have a fair few dealings with the Dalish and tells Merrill they bend their knee too readily. That's why the idea that she's Fen'Harel appeals to me, although there are so many possibilities and I doubt it'll be that straight-forward.
Personally I have an idea that Flemeth's cryptic words to Hawke about don't be afraid to jump into the abyss are setting the stage for something bigger than just choosing a side in the finale of DA2. I'm thinking that since Merrill mentions the Forgotten Ones being trapped in the abyss by Fen'Harel, if Flemeth was Fen'Harel or perhaps a servant of Fen'Harel then she is trying to position Hawke to be the one to seal the breach when the Forgotten Ones try to break out of the abyss. Add in Leliana's vision where she mentions similar words and the disappearance of the Warden and the Champion, those three could play pivotal parts in stopping the return of the evil section of the Elven Pantheon. But everyone has a crazy theory about Flemeth, lol.
I just hope we don't get too many easy answers about Flemeth, it's far more fun looking at little bits of the puzzle and wondering.
Personally I have an idea that Flemeth's cryptic words to Hawke about don't be afraid to jump into the abyss are setting the stage for something bigger than just choosing a side in the finale of DA2. I'm thinking that since Merrill mentions the Forgotten Ones being trapped in the abyss by Fen'Harel, if Flemeth was Fen'Harel or perhaps a servant of Fen'Harel then she is trying to position Hawke to be the one to seal the breach when the Forgotten Ones try to break out of the abyss. Add in Leliana's vision where she mentions similar words and the disappearance of the Warden and the Champion, those three could play pivotal parts in stopping the return of the evil section of the Elven Pantheon. But everyone has a crazy theory about Flemeth, lol.
I just hope we don't get too many easy answers about Flemeth, it's far more fun looking at little bits of the puzzle and wondering.
#28
Guest_PurebredCorn_*
Posté 18 avril 2011 - 07:49
Guest_PurebredCorn_*
Guest_PurebredCorn_*
-
- Guests
Fast Jimmy wrote...
Has anyone suggested/considered the possibility that Flemeth is Andraste?
.
Yes. Here's a good thread.
http://social.biowar...1/index/4372316
#29
Posté 18 avril 2011 - 07:55
Torax
-
- Members
- 1 829 messages
Also keep in mind that Pantheon had 7 Members with the dreadwolf included. The old gods of Tevinter had 7 listed. All of which were supposedly trapped in the earth by the Maker. It could be a possibility that the "Forgotten Ones" could be the Old Gods of Tevinter. That leaves 2 still alive. It could be a likely hood that there were 7 members of the Pantheon and 7 Forgotten Ones. It's all speculation and may never have a bearing on the game in any true sense for a while.
#30
Posté 18 avril 2011 - 07:55
ACdeakial
-
- Members
- 35 messages
people said that about lost, then it just got annoying.
i agree with you somewhat, flemeth is an enigma and easy answers would just annoy me, but Flemth seems to be somewhat tied into the theology of the game, at least thats the rumour. So to answer what flemeth is, would be to deny the truth of the other religions, unless Fen'Harel is the maker, the old gods are the elven pantheon, the sun is untouched, and the qun is actually the will of the forgotten ones.
Otherwise the writers have to tread very carefully as to not spoil it for those who believe differently, if this is their intention. In the end some people will be dissapointed as their imaginations always paint a better picture than the truth.
i agree with you somewhat, flemeth is an enigma and easy answers would just annoy me, but Flemth seems to be somewhat tied into the theology of the game, at least thats the rumour. So to answer what flemeth is, would be to deny the truth of the other religions, unless Fen'Harel is the maker, the old gods are the elven pantheon, the sun is untouched, and the qun is actually the will of the forgotten ones.
Otherwise the writers have to tread very carefully as to not spoil it for those who believe differently, if this is their intention. In the end some people will be dissapointed as their imaginations always paint a better picture than the truth.
#31
Posté 18 avril 2011 - 08:13
Blacklash93
-
- Members
- 4 154 messages
She's not a spirit.EmperorSahlertz wrote...
I'm guessing she is the Formless. An extremely powerful demon which is supposed to be bound along with three others of its kind (except Gaxkang, which has somehow been unbound).
She mocks Anders for considering her to be one or an abomination and Fenris outright says she isn't.
Modifié par Blacklash93, 18 avril 2011 - 08:14 .
#32
Posté 18 avril 2011 - 08:30
jmbrosendo
-
- Members
- 82 messages
My best guess would be something akin to the Lady of the Forest, but much older and far more powerfull.
An actual spirit of the world. It sort of fits the crypticness, the desire to preserve certain magics, being anti-blight, critical of the affairs of men, and so on.
An actual spirit of the world. It sort of fits the crypticness, the desire to preserve certain magics, being anti-blight, critical of the affairs of men, and so on.
#33
Posté 18 avril 2011 - 08:40
TOBY FLENDERSON
-
- Members
- 965 messages
She's an old god like Uthemrial in my opinion.
By the way the old gods are different from the forgotten ones. The forgotten ones are demons, the old gods living creatures of good or at least nuetrality (unless corrupted into arch demons).
By the way the old gods are different from the forgotten ones. The forgotten ones are demons, the old gods living creatures of good or at least nuetrality (unless corrupted into arch demons).
Modifié par TOBY FLENDERSON, 18 avril 2011 - 08:43 .
#34
Posté 18 avril 2011 - 09:50
BigEvil
-
- Members
- 1 191 messages
No, the Forgotten Ones are part of the Elven Pantheon of gods (the evil part). There is nothing indicating they are demons. You might be thinking of the four powerful demons called the Forsaken Ones (Gaxkang, Xebenkeck, The Formless One, Imshael).
#35
Posté 18 avril 2011 - 10:52
Auridesion
-
- Members
- 88 messages
After reading through all the posts in this thread, I'm left with a lot of thoughts. I'll say this to sum those thoughts all up:
- I don't think Flemeth is the Maker.
- I don't think Flemeth is the Anti-Maker.
- I don't think Flemeth is Andraste.
Those are my absolutes. I agree that canon has clearly established that she's not an "abomination" in the regard that she isn't a spirit or a demon. However, I also can't imagine why Flemeth would need to body-switch if she wasn't something INSIDE OF another being. But I also don't think we can trust everything that Morrigan told us as FACTUAL information, based on the mysterious conversation you can have with Flemeth in Origins.
Whatever Flemeth is, the following are obvious:
- She is powerful.
- She is ancient.
- She knows infinitely more than she is ever likely to share with us.
- She has some motive or purpose behind her intervention at crucial points in the storyline of both games.
When confronting Flemeth at Morrigan's behest in Origins, she gives you the option to take her Grimoire as a trophy and allow Morrigan to believe that you "killed" her. It was Flemeth who told Morrigan of the first Grimoire, complaining that she'd misplaced/lost it. Whatever Flemeth is, I think it's certainly plausible that she expected Morrigan to eventually get hold of either or both tomes. If that's the case, I also think it's perfectly plausible that she put in those tomes exactly what she wanted Morrigan to see. Furthermore, it's ENTIRELY plausible that Morrigan was manipulating the Warden with lies. Even if you fell in love with her, and even if she fell in love with you, Morrigan obviously has her own motivations. I think it's VERY likely that either Morrigan was playing the Warden or Flemeth was playing Morrigan, or any sort of combination of the both.
So, can we even trust the "canon" that seems to have been established in the games so far?
As for bringing the various theologies into the question (and potential answer) of what Flemeth is... well, I think it's a beautiful idea that maybe all of the various religious perspectives of Thedas are merely fractured versions of the same truths. But how those truths were fractured into the many different views is the question, isn't it? Flemeth could easily fit the description of many (if not all) religious figures with the right interpretation of her behavior and the interpretation of the stories of those religious figures themselves.
*Shrugs*
Isn't speculation fun? xD
- I don't think Flemeth is the Maker.
- I don't think Flemeth is the Anti-Maker.
- I don't think Flemeth is Andraste.
Those are my absolutes. I agree that canon has clearly established that she's not an "abomination" in the regard that she isn't a spirit or a demon. However, I also can't imagine why Flemeth would need to body-switch if she wasn't something INSIDE OF another being. But I also don't think we can trust everything that Morrigan told us as FACTUAL information, based on the mysterious conversation you can have with Flemeth in Origins.
Whatever Flemeth is, the following are obvious:
- She is powerful.
- She is ancient.
- She knows infinitely more than she is ever likely to share with us.
- She has some motive or purpose behind her intervention at crucial points in the storyline of both games.
When confronting Flemeth at Morrigan's behest in Origins, she gives you the option to take her Grimoire as a trophy and allow Morrigan to believe that you "killed" her. It was Flemeth who told Morrigan of the first Grimoire, complaining that she'd misplaced/lost it. Whatever Flemeth is, I think it's certainly plausible that she expected Morrigan to eventually get hold of either or both tomes. If that's the case, I also think it's perfectly plausible that she put in those tomes exactly what she wanted Morrigan to see. Furthermore, it's ENTIRELY plausible that Morrigan was manipulating the Warden with lies. Even if you fell in love with her, and even if she fell in love with you, Morrigan obviously has her own motivations. I think it's VERY likely that either Morrigan was playing the Warden or Flemeth was playing Morrigan, or any sort of combination of the both.
So, can we even trust the "canon" that seems to have been established in the games so far?
As for bringing the various theologies into the question (and potential answer) of what Flemeth is... well, I think it's a beautiful idea that maybe all of the various religious perspectives of Thedas are merely fractured versions of the same truths. But how those truths were fractured into the many different views is the question, isn't it? Flemeth could easily fit the description of many (if not all) religious figures with the right interpretation of her behavior and the interpretation of the stories of those religious figures themselves.
*Shrugs*
Isn't speculation fun? xD
#36
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 01:46
Scnew
-
- Members
- 110 messages
But weren't the Tevinter gods cast down by the Maker to become the Archdemons?
#37
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 01:56
Jedi Master of Orion
-
- Members
- 6 910 messages
The Dalish Worship "The Creators," of which there are 9 (including the Dread Wolf).
The Forgotten Ones are the evil Dalish Gods, who are the villains of the Elven Pantheon. I don't remember hearing of their names or how many of them there are.
There are only 7 Old Gods. And 5 of them have been slain in the Blights.
The Forbidden Ones are apparently demons of some kind and the books mentions 4 of them.
It's possible she's some sort of kin to the Old Gods but I have a feeling whatever she is it someone unique and independent of any of the other powerful beings or stories of powerful beings in Thedas. She's just Flemeth: One of a kind.
The Forgotten Ones are the evil Dalish Gods, who are the villains of the Elven Pantheon. I don't remember hearing of their names or how many of them there are.
There are only 7 Old Gods. And 5 of them have been slain in the Blights.
The Forbidden Ones are apparently demons of some kind and the books mentions 4 of them.
It's possible she's some sort of kin to the Old Gods but I have a feeling whatever she is it someone unique and independent of any of the other powerful beings or stories of powerful beings in Thedas. She's just Flemeth: One of a kind.
#38
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 02:21
EmperorSahlertz
-
- Members
- 8 809 messages
She seemed to regard the Darkspawn as a genuine threat though. So no matter what kind of being she is, she is susceptible to their corruption.
#39
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 05:12
Kenshen
-
- Members
- 2 107 messages
I believe she is what Morrigan wanted to create, a reborn old god. This is why she played Morrigan like the tool she is and the whole body swapping stuff. Flemeth just wanted another old god to be reborn.
#40
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 05:21
AlexXIV
-
- Members
- 10 670 messages
Chantry lore ... could be anything from incomplete to blatant lies.Scnew wrote...
But weren't the Tevinter gods cast down by the Maker to become the Archdemons?
#41
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 06:44
Jedi Master of Orion
-
- Members
- 6 910 messages
As far as I know history doesn't even have a first hand record of the Old Gods prior to the Blights, they were said to have contacted the Tevinter leaders in their dreams from their prisons and taught them blood magic. Scholars believe that they must have been free at one point in the ancient past, but others don't even think that the Archdemons are the Old Gods. But the Architect seems to have confirmed that they are. I remember somebody saying that there was evidence that they were imprisoned by the Dwarves at some point but I don't remember anything like that in the games.
As far as Flemeth goes, I suspect her comment about being "Ancient and powerful" compared to some but not others is true. The quest in Dragon Age 2 about her implies that her ability to avoid death is mor precarious than one might think.
As far as Flemeth goes, I suspect her comment about being "Ancient and powerful" compared to some but not others is true. The quest in Dragon Age 2 about her implies that her ability to avoid death is mor precarious than one might think.
Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 19 avril 2011 - 06:48 .
#42
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 07:51
ACdeakial
-
- Members
- 35 messages
I wonder if the archdemons imprisonment could be linked to Elgar'nan taking down the sun for 'Scorching the Earth'
Flemeth = A nutty, but very very very old, bat.
Here's a question, if you didn't kill flemeth in Origins, does that mean there are two flemeths about?
Flemeth = A nutty, but very very very old, bat.
Here's a question, if you didn't kill flemeth in Origins, does that mean there are two flemeths about?
#43
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 08:58
zeejay21
-
- Members
- 226 messages
She's just an old woman who can't keep quiet.
Why not? She is the infamous Witch of The Wilds.
Why not? She is the infamous Witch of The Wilds.
#44
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 09:18
Fast Jimmy
-
- Members
- 17 939 messages
PurebredCorn wrote...
Fast Jimmy wrote...
Has anyone suggested/considered the possibility that Flemeth is Andraste?
.
Yes. Here's a good thread.
http://social.biowar...1/index/4372316
Gracias!
#45
Guest_PurebredCorn_*
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 09:20
Guest_PurebredCorn_*
Guest_PurebredCorn_*
-
- Guests
de nada.Fast Jimmy wrote...
Gracias!
Modifié par PurebredCorn, 19 avril 2011 - 11:32 .
#46
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 09:31
freezeyZ
-
- Members
- 13 messages
Scnew:
The old gods are the reason for blood magic.
They are the reason for blood magic in thE tevinter.
After the maker saw that,he doomed them to stay underground for ever, but as we know they told the magisters to invade the maker city and you know the rest from there.
The old gods are the reason for blood magic.
They are the reason for blood magic in thE tevinter.
After the maker saw that,he doomed them to stay underground for ever, but as we know they told the magisters to invade the maker city and you know the rest from there.
#47
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 09:39
Jedi Master of Orion
-
- Members
- 6 910 messages
Chantry lore says Dumat and the rest of the Old Gods were imprisoned underground for "stealing the Maker's place in the hearts of man" or something to that effect. Meaning that Dumat was the reason for humanity no longer believing in the Maker according to the Chantry. They supposedly contacted the Tevinter leaders after that to teach them blood magic; which in turn gave them the power to start and empire. I think the story of the fall of the Golden City was one where the Old Gods eventually played on the Magister's hubris in their dreams to convince them to try to reach it.
Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 19 avril 2011 - 09:41 .
#48
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 09:49
Seena
-
- Members
- 510 messages
God I hate it when people use bullets!
How do you say "We know for sure" that she's interested in power? Can you clarify that?? Power over something, or power for power's sake.
How do you say "We know for sure" that she's interested in power? Can you clarify that?? Power over something, or power for power's sake.
#49
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 10:02
Rinshu
-
- Members
- 5 messages
I killed Flemmeth in Origins and Morigana ran off. I didn't play witch hunt. What did I miss?
#50
Posté 19 avril 2011 - 10:10
Jedi Master of Orion
-
- Members
- 6 910 messages
About Flemeth? Not much. Morrigan just says that she has tricked her way past death and that she is something that is not a demon or an abomination but something that isn't human. She also says that Flemeth will be a greater threat and she needs to leave to a place beyond the fade to gain power enough to combat it.
