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[Rifneno]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

She's not even trying to be subtle about it.

You know she teaches Morrigan how to shapeshift the form of other animals right?  Occam's Razor and all that.  Not saying you're wrong but her dragon antics is more likely to be advanced shapeshifting magic than it being her natural form.

It's just a theory and I realize it may not be correct, but I still strongly believe in it. Not being a blood mage, an abomination, or even human... this is pretty much the only thing to go on.

There's just no reason for her to resemble a dragon (hair horns) in human form otherwise. Not one that doesn't border on fetishism, anyway.

Ahh.  Fair enough then.    I do think her natural form being a dragon is more likely than many believe.  They say dragons can't be mages... but why not?  Because we don't have hard evidence of it?  Mages are very rare among any population, and dragons are so rare as to be thought extinct.  Who are we to say there might not be dragon mages?  And if there are, dragons live so long they may have time to perfect their craft to a level far beyond other races.

The only reason I don't consider that the more likely scenario is I don't think magic would give her the ability to basically see the future.  That's just totally alien from any type of magic we've seen or even heard of.

[Ulicus]

So, a friend of mine just had a thought: what are the chances that Flemeth was the "High Dragon" that appeared right at the start of the Dragon Age? I'm thinking... high.

[Rifneno]

Ulicus wrote...

So, a friend of mine just had a thought: what are the chances that Flemeth was the "High Dragon" that appeared right at the start of the Dragon Age? I'm thinking... high.

Wow.  I always figured it was that one douching up Andraste's tomb but that makes a lot more sense.

"The previous several years have seen two dragon flights ranging out of the Frostback and Orkney Mountains, even though it was thought that dragons had been hunted to extinction by Nevarran dragon hunters during the Steel Age. The dragons devastate the countrysides in Orlais and Nevarra, and all attempts to slay them end in disaster. Despite the devastation, some see the return of dragons to Thedas as a glorious sign—Chantry scholars, however, claim that this is the worst of omens. As the Blessed Age draws to a close, they name the Dragon Age, saying that it will be an age of violence and upheaval."

Hmm.  All attempts to slay them ended in disaster.  That's quite telling.  A dragon is a force to be reckoned with, no doubt, but they aren't so incredible that ones causing that much destruction could survive retribution.  The fact that they were hunting to near extinction indicates that a dragon or two isn't *that* big a problem.  Yeah, this definitely sounds like Flemeth at work.

[PantheraOnca]

If I could get my hair to go dragon-crest i would, so her having hair like that doesn't necessarily mean anything. She could be the mother of all kossith for all we know. Or ogres.

This is off topic, but how did the darkspawn have ogres in blights where the kossith hadn't landed on thedas yet? If there were darkspawn in kossith homelands, why don't they know about blights, and how damned deep and long do the deep roads go? transcontinental?

[Blacklash93]

PantheraOnca wrote...

If I could get my hair to go dragon-crest i would, so her having hair like that doesn't necessarily mean anything. She could be the mother of all kossith for all we know.

Gaider himself called her horns "dragon-like" so she's definitely imitating a dragon in her human appearance.

And as to why she would, of course she could be doing it for lulz, but I really doubt that. Bioware wouldn't be pronouncing her dragon form so much if she was. There's something about her naturally draconic. 

Again, it's a theory and I'm not claiming it as a fact.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 26 avril 2011 - 01:56 .

[Alynna_tp]

Sareth Cousland wrote...

I think Flemeth is Razikale (or Lusacan) and works towards restoring the old order. The Forgotten Ones are the dragon gods of the Tevinter Imperium. Fen'Harel tricked all the old gods and banished them, then entered the Fade to rule the Black/Golden City (depending on viewpoint), and from there, the minds of men. Fen'Harel is the being that is now worshipped as the Maker, laughing in secret at the irony. When the Tevinter magisters tried to remove Fen'Harel from power, he cursed them and created the darkspawn in the process, weakening the Imperium. Then he inspired Andraste to attack the Imperium, establish the Chantry and limit the power of mages, so his rule would never be challenged again. Blood magic was forbidden, as it is the only school that does not draw power from the Fade, the realm of Fen'Harel, and is thus outside his control.

I really like this theory, I've had a sneaky suspicion about the Maker and the old gods and all that since the beginning that is really close to your ideas.  It's fun to speculate, imagine how many imaginary cookies would go to the person who guesses correctly?

[PantheraOnca]

Blacklash93 wrote...

PantheraOnca wrote...

If I could get my hair to go dragon-crest i would, so her having hair like that doesn't necessarily mean anything. She could be the mother of all kossith for all we know.

Gaider himself called her horns "dragon-like" so she's definitely imitating a dragon in her human appearance.

And as to why she would, of course she could be doing it for lulz, but I really doubt that. Bioware wouldn't be pronouncing her dragon form so much if she was. There's something about her naturally draconic. 

Again, it's a theory and I'm not claiming it as a fact.

I have no idea what she is, and I generally try to play devil's advocate when someone puts a theory forward on her.

There's something about her naturally draconic.

I agree with that in the sense that dragons are many things to many people, as is flemeth. But what did you mean by it exactly?

[theheadstrong11]

I say she's Fen'Harel, "the Trickster". Seriously, she's been tricking everyone since she showed up. The Warden with the whole Morrigan ritual thing and the grimoire, and then by giving Hawke the amulet. The woman's up to no good.

And I've got money that says that Bioware's ultimate ending includes your character being forced to choose between the Maker and the bad gods. Calling it now.

[LadyBri]

So many good theories exist, and it's fun to debate what Flemeth is.

After DA2, I really started to wonder about this frequent connection/relationship between Flemeth and the Dalish. We see her living near the Dalish in "The Stolen Throne", and they seem to revere her and do her bidding. Also, Ariane mentions knowledge of Flemeth among her clan, hence how she found the hut in the wilds.

In DA2, the quest for raising Flemeth is called "The Long Way Home", so is her rebirth among the Dalish coming home or could Sundermount be her home? Just seemed odd because the quest names all seem to hint toward the purpose of the quest for the characters involved.

Also, Marethari knows of Flemeth and Merrill tells Flemeth that she knows a bit about her (don't I wish we could have grilled Merrill for what she knows). Finally, it also struck me as odd that the way we bring Flemeth back out of the amulet is with the recitation of the Dalish rite of the dead.

Again, not sure if this even counts as a theory. Maybe Flemeth is Fen'Harel, or maybe an Old God, or just a dragon with super powers. So many more interesting theories exist, but either way I really want to know what is Flemeth's relationship to the Dalish and why do they presumably know more about her than we might?

[Crow_22]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Crow_22 wrote...

Personally... I think Flemeth was at one point, a human mage. Probably an apostate among Chasten or someone who was accepted into the Chasten culture at a young age (7-13).

Flemeth then learned about magic, blood magic especially, and became a powerful Mage. Or apostate, whatever floats your boat. She made pact upon pact with demons, growing more powerful, learning more and more spells. And eventually learned old magics that no one else knew of and became The Witch of the Wilds, since she was a 'Chasten' and lived in the Wilds.

As for what she is. I think Flemeth is a dangerous, but powerful, wise, and smart woman who isn't so much power hungry, but after Eternal Youth, after all.... That's what the Origins game was hinting at, and she furthered proved her desire for immortality in DA2 when she was 'locked' in an amulet, or at least a piece of her.

What is Flemeth? Either a Human who has gained powers beyond any being in existence. Or a mage that has 'merged' with it's abomination form, the mage has entire control and the demon is nothing more than a memory.

Her ultimate goal is not immortality. She is not an abomination, either. She isn't even a blood mage.

Morrigan clearly says so in WH.

Morrigan says she's not.... And Flemeth may very will BE a blood mage, we just haven't seen her in action. A blood mage can use their blood magic at will, so therefore it would make sense to me that piled onto the fact that she's a mage, she would also know many ancient magics including blood magic.

As for abomination part, it's just theory, I have never played Witch Hunt.

Besides, how do you know her true goal isn't immortality? It seems to keep changing, it's a means to her own ends. It makes sense to ME that she wants immortality because of the ritual Morrigan told the main character about in Origins, if that's not an attempt for immortality then idk what IS.

[Blacklash93]

"I thought I knew what Flemeth planned, I thought what she craved what immortality... and yet I was wrong... so very wrong." - Morrigan

[Crow_22]

Blacklash93 wrote...

"I thought I knew what Flemeth planned, I thought what she craved what immortality... and yet I was wrong... so very wrong." - Morrigan

I stand corrected then. Immortality out of the picture. Now to move on to other theroies! Lol

Lol, perhaps Flemeth is something like a Guardian. Like Medivh in Warcraft.

Drawing at straws now, so don't trust me.  

Modifié par Crow_22, 26 avril 2011 - 07:21 .

[Blacklash93]

PantheraOnca wrote...

I agree with that in the sense that dragons are many things to many people, as is flemeth. But what did you mean by it exactly?

I think what she is has to be dragon-related. Whether she's annointed by an Old God or is one herself. Whether she's just a magical high dragon or not. The dragon thing is for more than just flash.

[ShahHQ]

I think Flemeth is origin of dragons, a mother of all old gods.

[Boh22]

Dante Angelo wrote...

She is the Harbinger

*thinks hardly about an awesome, not even a bit cheesy "Assuming direct control" joke*

[LadyVaJedi]

Sareth Cousland I like your 2 theory that Flemeth might be Andraste.

[theheadstrong11]

If Flemeth is Andraste, then what the deuce healed Arl Eamon? Besides the codex entry in Origins says this:

"And Our Lady sits still at his (the Maker) side, where she still urges Him to take pity on His children."

It also makes it pretty clear that Andraste is DEAD, betrayed by her husband and offered mercy by Archon Hessarian. Still...dead.

[LadyVaJedi]

Yes but a person's soul is immortal.

[theheadstrong11]

So Andraste's soul is dwelling within an apostate witch (or whatever the heck she is) that can transform into a dragon, take the souls of her daughters and even hide a piece of her soul in an amulet? Hmm. Shaky. Just because a soul is immortal doesn't mean that Andraste's soul decided to leave the Maker and rejoin the world. The codex says that Andraste asked the Maker to recreate paradise in the world. Has Flemeth ever hinted at the notion that this is what she wants? I doubt a soul changes very much...

[LadyVaJedi]

But maybe the people of Thedas aren't ready for that. Maybe the maker said that the man/woman kind have to earn it.

[theheadstrong11]

He gave up on them after what Maferath did to Andraste.

"The Maker wept for His Beloved, cursed Maferath, cursed mankind for their betrayal, and turned once again from creation, taking only Andraste with him."

[LadyVaJedi]

True, but if the maker was a "good" parent hopefully will give man/woman a chance to redeem. Like the xtain/jewish god did in the old testament with the flood.

[theheadstrong11]

It's a video game, not real life. Anyways, this thread is getting off topic...