81 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabariel]

I literally facepalmed when Hawke picked the idol up. You've no idea what it is and you touch it? No! Bad Hawke, bad!

As for Varric, eh, I can forgive that. He knew his brother was a butt. He just didn't realize how big of a butt his brother could be...

[Zmajc]

I found the whole scene completely ridiculous like the story was written for a children's book or out of Ben 10 cartoon, not a game with "mature" rating.

Modifié par Zmajc, 23 mars 2011 - 08:38 .

[Zenstrive]

Well, Hawke was thinking that he worked his butt off for 50 sovereignsto get to this expeditions and still need to pawn few darkspawns and dragons. Better get something cool out of it and presto! A Lyrium Idol that looks like priceless in a room that looks like an ominous room!

Happy! Happy!

Don't tell me the last time you are so happy you don't lost control of yourselves.

[Monsteroids]

The idol made them stupid! It's my best explanation. The idol pretty much is a literal Idiot Ball, which is why I wonder why it was put in the game in the first place. Plot convenience I s'pose.

Oh wait, you already went over this. Never mind.

Modifié par Monsteroids, 23 mars 2011 - 09:08 .

[PPR223]

Its even worse if Anders is in your party, afterall he says it has magic and not the good kind.

[Gabey5]

they were partners

[Monochrome Wench]

My feeling was always the Idol made them do it. First Hawke picks it up, has no effect. Causes hawke to pass it to varric. Has too little effect causing him to pass it to his brother causing him to become very quickly corrupted, sealing Hawke + Varric + other in the chamber.

[Deylar]

Wolfva2 wrote...
And that is why, if you were the protaganist, the game would have ended with ya'll backing slowly out of the room, sealing it shut, and then selling off the rest of the items you plundered thus making you a wealthy merchant who never becomes the Champion because you always play it safe.

Of course, you also end up dying in your sleep at an advanced old age surrounded by hordes of loved ones, unlike the Champion who'll probably end up aten by a kraken or something.

And this is why this game had no depth.

My friends and I have been desigining a game and even trying to make our own company. Is going to take a while and may never happen, friends do fall out.

However, I think a good RPG is one that can compensate for the things you didn't do and the things you do. They could have given us the option of giving it to Bartrand or leaving the idle alone, much like the Evil Tomes running lying around Kirkwall.

Not giving it to Bartrand doesn't mean the plot doesn't move along. Varric and Hawke leave it alone. But maybe Bartrand still wants it.

A game should be able to move with your choices, its what adds the depth. A RPG is a choose your own adventure book. And you should be able to make clear cut decisions.

In the RPG we're designing, you can choose to not do something. But the NPCs, we hope, will be background thoughts in your head. What did they do?

Maybe Varric and Hawke do something along the lines of:

Hawke, "Leave it alone,"

Varric, "Okay,"

Hawke, "We should move on ahead to see if there is anything else,"

You leave the idol alone as you make your way through the hall, Bartrand seizes the oppurtunity to take the idol. 

This is why this game lacks soul. Because we're forced to do stupid things because the game cannot compensate for if we don't.

[Lukertin]

How do you know Varric wasn't lying about that part of the story? He could have made that part of the story up to justify killing his brother, whom he didn't like. You don't know that what you saw is what actually happened.

[Lithuasil]

So you just bet your entire fortune on that you'll make a lot of money from this trip (which so far hasn't really payed off). And then you find something equivalent to a diamond coated in cocaine, the size of a football. Would you pass it up, because the place looks kinda creepy?

[Zmajc]

Lithuasil wrote...

So you just bet your entire fortune on that you'll make a lot of money from this trip (which so far hasn't really payed off). And then you find something equivalent to a diamond coated in cocaine, the size of a football. Would you pass it up, because the place looks kinda creepy?

No, just the way they pictured in game was really really bad.

[Jypcie]

Desperation and fatigue could have possibly affected their rationalization. Hawke was desperate for a decent hunk of change to hide his/her mage sibling behind, for one. Secondly through all the deep roads the party travelled thus far they hadn't really found any other treasure worth mentioning. All they'd found so far was an empty ancient thaig with no treasure. I think it was probably stupidity born of relief that there was finally "something" other than rock dust.

[Bathead]

Monochrome Wench wrote...

My feeling was always the Idol made them do it. First Hawke picks it up, has no effect. Causes hawke to pass it to varric. Has too little effect causing him to pass it to his brother causing him to become very quickly corrupted, sealing Hawke + Varric + other in the chamber.

This is simlar to the way the One Ring in LOTR is supposed to work. That it is an almost sentient thing that can influence the behaviour of those who come in contact with it so as to use others, often against their own best interests, to help it get back to it's master, Sauron. If you remember it was the influence of the Ring that caused Smeagol (Gollum) to murder his own beloved brother Deagol when they found it. Perhaps the idol here did the same, influencing Hawke and Varric to be a little less cautious and maybe a bit more greedy than usual and causing Bartrand to betray his brother.

Modifié par Bathead, 23 mars 2011 - 12:59 .

[Noatz]

Oh it was a dumb thing to do alright. They had - on some level - to know the idol was bad news in some way. But they can't see the future, as Varric narrates to Cassandra "if we had known what was down there we would have all acted differently" (or something like that). I guess they figured they would get it back to the surface and sell it off as quickly as possible; whats one more cursed artifact floating around the world? Unfortuantely it proved a bit more nasty than they thought.

[Dean_the_Young]

Deylar wrote...

This is why this game lacks soul. Because we're forced to do stupid things because the game cannot compensate for if we don't.

And here I thought the reason it lacked soul was because the game was a pre-programmed compilation of ones and zeroes stored on a hard-copy disk.

[Alexein]

It might be creepy and ominous to us, but to them, it might not have reached to "Creepiness exceeds Treasure value" threshold.

I used to scavenge scrap metal all the time for a few bucks. And when you need to do it for money you'll take just about anything. Sometimes i had to dismantle stuff containing toxic fluids to get metal housing. Heck just go to any poor country and you'll see people KNOWINGLY handle really dangerous things because they're so poor and really need the cash. I've seen people burn circuit boards to get the copper, knowing full well the fumes and smoke are REALLY bad for them, because they're desperate for money.

Hawke, who was essentially destitute, might have approached the situation the same way. At least hawke can make the excuse: "Hey! i didn't know it was THAT dangerous! I thought it would only release a giant boulder to chase me, honest!"

Modifié par Alexein, 23 mars 2011 - 01:59 .

[_Aine_]

My Hawke didn't seem to care really, I am guessing at that moment they just wanted out of their imprisonment and were going to take as much as they could to spite the brother.

That and yes, we don't know what *really* happened, Varric could be weaving this whole thing out of nothing for reasons we don't know. I doubt it, but it *is* possible. At least some of what is said could be said solely to protect "friends" or conceal a purpose. Time will tell.

Multiple playthroughs reveals more of the story though also ( in general for DA2 I mean). The story itself is actually quite decent enough, the characters are pretty interesting once you see more than one side of them especially. What reduced the *appearance* of quality a bit, in my opinion anyway, was the reused areas ( with nothing disguising the fact) and perhaps the pacing. Otherwise, almost done my second playthrough - I can see it has more to offer than at first glance. Of course, a game as action-oriented as this one perhaps *should* stand alone strongly on a single playthrough perhaps.... A HUGE note, the story was revealed much better in my second playthrough, on a totally different type of character and as a mage. These factors may make the difference, will know when I try it again as a real s.o.b crazy person, next!

[Giltspur]

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

 Okay, I'm gonna get flak for this, but stay with me here. I loved Varric. He was my favorite character in the entire game. But he, along with Hawke also made the single dumbest mistake I have ever seen in a game (and I've played Final Fantasy 4.)


So let's set the scene: You've fought your way through the Deep Roads until you find yourself in a long-forgotten dwarven ruin, and it's like nothing that's ever been found before. It's kinda ominous, really. Everything's kinda glowy red, there's no statues of paragons anywhere, and one of your party members even says something about "this is a place that was meant to be forgotten." It's a spooky place, and no mistake. 


Then you go into the next room, and there's a giant pagan altar with a creepy-ass idol on top of it. Now, let's be real here; this room should raise all kinds of red flags, especially if -- like me -- you brought Anders along. This is an ominous room, built as some kind of worship spot around a glowing, sparkling idol. The idol, incidentally, is a representation of someone or something no one has ever seen before. As seasoned adventurers who live in a world filled with magic, demons, and spirits who can possess people in their sleep, all your party naturally knows that this is a place that should be approached with extreme caution and a healthy dose of fear, ESPECIALLY that idol thing--


HAH, yeah right Hawke goes and grabs the pagan idol right off the altar and gives it to Varric, who tosses it to his feeble-minded brother.


DUDE. DOUBLE-YOU TEE EFF!?

I'm sorry, but that is the outright DUMBEST move I have ever seen! This is like Indiana Jones going into the cave in the first movie, noticing that freaky stream of light, and then thinking "Huh, this is interesting, I SHOULD STICK MY HEAD RIGHT IN THERE TO SEE WHAT IT IS."


And Varric is supposed to be one of the smartest, cleverest, most worldly-wise characters in the game! This isn't some campy horror movie, where the stars don't know about demons and crap, one of your party members is freaking POSSESSED BY THE LIVING EMBODIMENT OF JUSTICE. And yet no one says anything here. There's not a word of "hey, let's be careful" or even a "Maybe we should wait a second". No, it's just "Ooooooooooh shiny thing!"


I mean, what the hell? Is Hawke suddenly channeling Sandal here? I mean, it'd be one thing if this were some idol placed in a nicely wooded glade... These are the freaking DEEP ROADS. There's nothing here but here but danger and pain! The entire complex was built TO BE FORGOTTEN. As in 'we don't want people coming here ever again!" And NOBODY thinks to say that maybe the Idol is the reason why?


Varric, Hawke, I love ya guys, but you're imbeciles. Varric You're the new Merrill. Merrill, you're the new Anders. 


Anders, we'll figure out where you are later. We'll do lunch. 

Hawke, you're just an idiot. 

**EDITED FOR ACCURACY**

My recollection is that Hawke was reluctant to touch the idol and only timidly did at first.  That suggests to me that he kinda knew this was dangerous but his curiosity would not allow him to walk away.  And then when he didn't turn into a darkspawn on site it defused the tension and caused him to toss the idol to Varric.

Dumb?  Yes.  But still understandable.

Sorry if my memory of the scene turns out to be inaccurate.

Modifié par Giltspur, 23 mars 2011 - 02:17 .

[MKDAWUSS]

I guess it's DA2's Tamlen moment

[Evolution33]

It isn't just a creepy idol. It is a creepy idol that can make the Hawke name one to be reckoned with in Kirkwall and help to grease the palms of a few templars to look the other way so the Hawke family can live in peace.

[LadyJaneGrey]

It's DAII's equivalent of MEII's "let's all dozen of us cram into the shuttle for the first time ever." You know it's necessary to the story, but that doesn't make you feel less annoyed with the obvious contrivance.

[greyman33]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Odd that the Idol never seems to corrupt Hawke in the same way it seems to corrupt Bartrand and Varric. You'd think a lyrium idol would have a bigger impact on an apostate Hawke than two dwarves, after all.

Don't go noticing the men behind the curtains.

Otherwise you might start asking how, in Origins, your entire party could wander for most of the game, literally covered in darkspawn gore, while being themselves repeatedly wounded, yet despite only 2 of you being Wardens nobody ever thinks twice about becoming tainted/blighted.

[The Angry One]

greyman33 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Odd that the Idol never seems to corrupt Hawke in the same way it seems to corrupt Bartrand and Varric. You'd think a lyrium idol would have a bigger impact on an apostate Hawke than two dwarves, after all.

Don't go noticing the men behind the curtains.

Otherwise you might start asking how, in Origins, your entire party could wander for most of the game, literally covered in darkspawn gore, while being themselves repeatedly wounded, yet despite only 2 of you being Wardens nobody ever thinks twice about becoming tainted/blighted.

You could say the same of DA2. Actually it's worse.
Warrior/Rogue Hawke melees the Darkspawn and gets covered in blood, and yet it's Bethany who never gets a drop on her that's blighted.
Duurr.

[PPR223]

Lukertin wrote...

How do you know Varric wasn't lying about that part of the story? He could have made that part of the story up to justify killing his brother, whom he didn't like. You don't know that what you saw is what actually happened.

I'm expecting to see this excuse when Anders returns in DA3. He wasn't telling the truth....

Modifié par PPR223, 23 mars 2011 - 05:15 .

[Pinely]

greyman33 wrote...
Don't go noticing the men behind the curtains.

Otherwise you might start asking how, in Origins, your entire party could wander for most of the game, literally covered in darkspawn gore, while being themselves repeatedly wounded, yet despite only 2 of you being Wardens nobody ever thinks twice about becoming tainted/blighted.

Yeah, this always cracked me up.  At the end of Origins the character epilogues should have gone like this.

Morrigan - Died of the blight.
Oghren - Also died of the blight.
Dog - Taken out back and shot, because of the blight.
Sten - Died of the blight.
Leliana - Died of the blight.
Wynne - Technically dead already.  Also blighted.
Zeveren - Died from the blight.  Compounded by numerous STDs.
Shale - . . .