152 réponses à ce sujet

[WoahitsMuna]

Kyriani Agrivar wrote...

I don't look at Anders as close minded but rather as someone personally affected by the plight of mages. How can he not be he IS a mage. It's very easy for someone not living your life to be dismissive of your problems, especially when they aren't the same as you. It's not unlike discrimination in today's society. Sure there are people on both sides. Some compassionate others totally against you. But only you know what you're going through and only those like you can truly understand how it feels.

When he's telling you about what happens to mages he's not just telling you the story of some nameless faceless mage... he's telling you about what happened to him as a child. How he was ripped from home... how his parents were threatened to stay away from him or lose everything. He's angry about what happened to himself. He's angry that it keeps happening to others. He doesn't believe diplomacy will make things better only maintain the status quo. He passionately believes that needs to change. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view) he has the power to bring that change about.

As a minority myself if I had the power to make the world completely accepting of people like me and even other minorities who are different from me... even if doing so robs them of the choice... or possibly resulted in one or a several injuries or even deaths... if I am truly honest with myself I would have to say I'd be tempted to do so. Someone who hasn't been oppressed in some way can't truly grasp the weight of how that feels. how powerless you feel when the majority stands against you. And depending on the severity of the circumstances (like in Anders case seeing what happened to Karl, someone he cared for) it can cause a person to reach a breaking point... a point where they feel enough is enough... a point where ANY action that stops the oppression becomes an option. Much like how many mages turn to blood magic.

I'm not saying what is done is "right" or "wrong"... but I can certainly understand why it happens... and I can agree that sometimes it NEEDS to happen. To quote DA:O "Andraste changed the world through violent rebellion against the Tevinter Imperium. She didn't write them a strongly-worded letter." Our own real life history backs that up.

The simplest analogy I can think of is this: Sometimes you have a break a few eggs to make an omelet.

Best answer yet. hands down. and i absolutely agree.

[ejoslin]

Can I answer the original question or would it totally be off the new topic? (grumbles about no spoilers allowed)

*grin* I prefer Fenris. Aside from his voice (which is beautiful), aside from his amazing delivery of those tortured lines (and yes, his VA is amazing), his priority ends up being Hawke.  Friends or rivals, he and Hawke are truly partners, and will face whatever comes their way together.  Even if he doesn't agree, even if he thinks Hawke is wrong, he will stand by Hawke to the bitter end.

Anders has his own priorities that will always come before Hawke. While this is admirable, putting what you perceive to be the greater good above your own happiness, since he's ultimately not willing to share that burden with Hawke (to protect Hawke or because of lack of trust, or a bit of both) I cannot see him as a true partner.

Both stories are compelling, however. I prefer the way Fenris declares his love rather than the way Anders does, but that is entirely personal preference.

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 mars 2011 - 03:34 .

[sestrensaz]

ejoslin wrote...

Can I answer the original question or would it totally be off the new topic? (grumbles about no spoilers allowed)

*grin* I prefer Fenris. Aside from his voice (which is beautiful), aside from his amazing delivery of those tortured lines (and yes, his VA is amazing), his priority ends up being Hawke.  Friends or rivals, he and Hawke are truly partners, and will face whatever comes their way together.  Even if he doesn't agree, even if he thinks Hawke is wrong, he will stand by Hawke to the bitter end.

Anders has his own priorities that will always come before Hawke. While this is admirable, putting what you perceive to be the greater good above your own happiness, since he's ultimately not willing to share that burden with Hawke (to protect Hawke or because of lack of trust, or a bit of both) I cannot see him as a true partner.

Both stories are compelling, however. I prefer the way Fenris declares his love rather than the way Anders does, but that is entirely personal preference.

With you all the way on this point.  Fenris' unwavering dedication to Hawke rather than dedication to some other goal certainly gives me the squee fairies!  It might be selfish, but I kinda love the idea of the adventurer Hawke and her unashamedly loyal elf lover!    I mean, really... who could pass that up for Anders? LOL

Don't shoot me OP... I'm kidding, I'm kidding!  (I think) :innocent:

Modifié par sestrensaz, 25 mars 2011 - 03:58 .

[PsychoBlonde]

I like Fenris, because unlike Anders he never (quite) stoops to the total blanket generalization. Fenris doesn't like mages, he has good reasons to be suspicious of them and dislike them, but even when he finds out the dude he hired to get him a decoy accidentally procured a MAGE, he is still polite to you and goes out of his way to express his gratitude when you assist him. He doesn't lie to you. He returns trust for trust. He's willing to let your cooler thinking override his own even when he's at his most furious.

He's a good guy. So what if he's rather overwrought and emotional about some things? Everyone has those times in their life.

[Punahedan]

I'mma say Fenris, but I like Anders, too, for the sheer tragic nature of that story. It's a huge stab in the back for principles Anders isn't even sure are entirely his. It's a compelling tale. But ultimately, not what I would go for in life.

Buuuut Fenris is... a very familiar type of person to me, I've seen his sort a lot. Very intelligent, very powerful, very reserved, would excel in anything given the chance... but comes from such a bad side of life that even when he's free of the people that ruined him, he's still not free of it. He exposes vulnerabilities to you as he tries to take his life back, and that sort of trust is very precious. He's got a chance that Anders doesn't.

Both have amazing puppy eyes and VAs, though. It's gut-wrenching to hear them sad.

Modifié par Hawkeyed Cai Li, 25 mars 2011 - 04:51 .

[Slayer299]

Myself, I couldn't stand either the brooding 'bad boy', Fenris or the 'tormented but well meaning' sociopath that was Anders. So that solved that for both in Act III >

[Vormaerin]

sophie22 wrote...

i dont understand anders decisions in this game. i love anders, but what he did was just so out of character it was insane. i didnt really get his reasons behind it. it seemed very rash. and didnt achieve what he wanted it to, i dont know why he thought it would!!

Uhh, looks like it accomplished exactly what he wanted it to as far as I could tell.  He wanted to make compromise between the factions impossible.  But we are getting into spoiler territory so, best drop it.

[sestrensaz]

Yeah, was gonna say... you're spoiling pretty badly there. Please remember this is the non spoiler section of the forums.

[apantoliani]

Anders. He may be dying from the Darkspawn taint and possessed by a warped spirit of Justice turned angry abomination, but he's still less emo and angsty than Fenris.

Fenris, bro, suck it up princess. Yeah, we get you were a slave, but you quit being a slave for 3 years WHEN WE MET. 7 Years later you're still ****ing. Just saying. *Spoiler redacted*

Edit: omg, spoilers. My bad. I realized right as I hit post! D:

Modifié par apantoliani, 25 mars 2011 - 07:55 .

[Viola Faye]

Spear of righteousness-smite me good  OR hate secks push me agains-the wall-and take me now ohh u naughty elf rawr:mellow: 


huh

I'll go with crazy demon posessed secks tyvm:whistle:+electricity trick....

wait...wrong topic but nwm lol

Modifié par Viola Faye, 25 mars 2011 - 08:13 .

[thompsonaf]

All of the romances could use some work.

Merril is adorable....for a blood mage.
Isabella is a raging **** with STDs.
Anders is just...anders. Act 3 FTL.
Fenris whhhhhines so much.
Sebastion, not sure, haven't played Exiled Prince DLC yet.

What would of have great romance options?
Aveline, of course. Tough and loyal.
Varric, shouldn't have to explain that one.
Cullen would make a great one for the femhawkes.
Grace would of have been fun if she had been written in a less extreme direction.

Meredith.

I kid I kid....Or do I?

Modifié par thompsonaf, 25 mars 2011 - 08:54 .

[Jenova65]

Tirigon wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...
OR......................... Are entitled to their opinion, just as you are  shouting ^ isn't really necessary. There are plenty of opinions on here I don't particularly *agree* with. Best thing is a reasoned response, not yelling at folk. 

Entitled to an opinion - surely. Entitled to spreading blatant lies? I think not.

Well the comment you quoted was an opinion surely? It isn't like they were slandering him......... he isn't real, lol. It's just a game, this isn't an actual person someone is (at worst) guilty of misjudging. There are people whose experience of me is positive and people who probably think I'm a b*tch, that's life, you can't please everyone.
And all of us are basing our choices on how these characters come across to us in the game. We see different things or all of us would  be romancing the same character  And that would be boring...........

[Fidget6]

Before the game came out I was for Fenris all the way, but once I actually played, I found myself pleasantly surprised by the Anders romance, he's sweet and adorable, so Anders wins. :3

[6 Is stcky]

WoahitsMuna wrote...

 Just curius:P. because i personally felt that Fenris was quite a grudge-holding jerkoff, but I've found that for some reason many people seem to prefer him. why?

Anders, on the other hand, despite losing a lot of the character that he had in Awakening, was still an awesome companion, and by far my favorite follower in DA2.

I hate them both but Anders more. Would be better if he never existed.

[WoahitsMuna]

thompsonaf wrote...

All of the romances could use some work.

Merril is adorable....for a blood mage.
Isabella is a raging **** with STDs.
Anders is just...anders. Act 3 FTL.
Fenris whhhhhines so much.
Sebastion, not sure, haven't played Exiled Prince DLC yet.

What would of have great romance options?
Aveline, of course. Tough and loyal.
Varric, shouldn't have to explain that one.
Cullen would make a great one for the femhawkes.
Grace would of have been fun if she had been written in a less extreme direction.

Meredith.

I kid I kid....Or do I?

Awesome.

[Eterna]

I don't like Anders.

He reminds me of Jowan, that's not a good thing.

[fascination80]

I preferred Fenris but I wanted the Arishock. Wished I could see all the uses for those sexy horns!
Oh.... Just me???!!
"Hangs head in shame....."

[astrallite]

12 year olds have trouble filling in the blanks, don't be too rough on him.

[Darth Death]

Because Fenris is the man! And he has a cool voice too.

[kglaser]

Anders. I have just about no interest in Fenris whatsoever.
His voice doesn't appeal to me, and in my playthrough he hates my guts and all he'll say to me is "Hawke". LOL
Plus Anders is way cuter.

[Valcutio]

Only reason Anders lasted as long as he did in my party is because I played a tank and he was the only healer option once Bioware robbed me of Bethany. Fenris might have been a decent character but I couldn't get past his jrpg-wannabe looks.

Honestly, I think this game would have been far better off without any romances. I'm not just saying that just because of the guys constantly hitting on me either. Both female characters would have been better served as "just friends".

Where the romances in DAO and the ME series feel genuine... the DA2 romances feel forced, awkward and offputting.

[Ryzaki]

I said Anders initially but I have to change my vote for Fenris.

Mostly because at the end of the day I know Fenris has my back. No matter what.

[Medhia Nox]

@Kyriani Agrivar - as a minority I completely disagree with you.

Everyone tries to make their personal plight the most important thing in the world - because it's theirs - and because it gives their lives gravitas (even if only in their imaginings).

You said that you would force people to like you - even if it robbed them of choice. I would do everything I could to stop you even if I would share in that acceptance.

As for your famous omelet quote - if you weren't busy breaking eggs for an omelet, you would realize you could be hatching chicks.

====

As for the OP's questions of Fenris vs. Anders

Fenris suffered slavery and torture - and by the end of my play through he was a steadfast friend to my mage and did not abandon me at any point through the game.

Anders ran away from the Grey Wardens because they wouldn't let him have a cat. He betrayed my trust - tried to implicate me in his terrorism - and at the very last moment of his life displayed so much hubris (paraphrase "I'll be remembered for this." ) I could do nothing but loathe him.

I don't admire men who have no sense of duty.

[devSin]

Oh, all right.

Fenris turned out better than I'd expected. He was more reserved (not so much as to really be as brooding as some people seem to suggest, but he kept his head down more often than not; his mage-rage never felt too unreasonable), so I never felt that I had to deviate much from my own desires when making decisions just to keep him from shutting down.

The romance was OK, although I'm not convinced that any of these people would be walking through the decade without anything more important than *you* going on (if you have to ask somebody if they remember your romantic encounter from a few years back, you're probably not going to like the real answer). I'm not sure it's the best of the five, but I didn't think it was badly done at all.

His look didn't bother me, but his posture kills (KILLS) me. I wanted so badly to break his back and reset it so that he could stand up straight. For the love of god, please! You walk like a monkey!

I don't have an opinion on Anders yet. Maybe sometime next year.

Modifié par devSin, 18 mai 2011 - 04:57 .

[Foolsfolly]

Actually both male romances have this whole chip on their shoulder ideology which, personally, makes them unappealing for anything other than doomed role-playing (seriously, Hawke/Anders is a sad story if played right).

Merrill and Isbela aren't perfect (well Merrill's close) but at least there's none of this constant whining and complaining. There's barely a person under all that angst with Anders and Fenris. I want to go Vito Corleone on them, slap them, and shout "You should act like a man!"

Varric's got problems but is well adjusted and generally nice to hang around. Why couldn't Fenris and Anders take a bit from his cue and just chill out.

BioWare likes the character that constantly brings up their baggage. Alistair was the chief offender in DA:O, and while I liked the guy immensely I got so tired of his "Oh woe is me, Duncan is dead" speeches.

It's like Carth and his dead wife.

Kaidan and his biotic training.

These guys are like if Batman scream/cried "My Parents Are Dead!" with every punch. There's gotta be better ways to remind the player of the source of angst than just having the character talk about it until the player hates the character.

Or until Alistair has some great banter with another character and insistently realize why you like the character in the first place.

But, OP, I like Fenris more than Anders too.

Why?

I don't like Anders. At all. Unstable abomination with delusions just doesn't endear itself to me. Fenris might complain a lot, but I understand his position enough to give that some leeway and Fenris has some fun dialogue. He's a little fantasy Wolverine only somehow not as cool.