476 réponses à ce sujet

[Well]

Brenus wrote...

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

Well, if DA2 is the new direction the DAOseries takes, I won't be buying any DAgame ever again.

well thats ashame but for your loss of sale there will be a 100 more people buying it.

LMAO, boy are you beyond delusional.  

That is a understatement.

[Brenus]

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...

Brenus wrote...

And obviously you are completely unaware that Bioware started out and were made successful by only making PC RPGs right?

Its so wonderful of them to completely abandon their loyal fanbase to gain console derps instead who like dumb and simplified hack and slash games. (sarcasm).

Look at the sales. 360 is double that of PC then PS3 is more than the PC as well. It's understandable why they would start pushing their games towards a console audience you can't really blame them for trying to make the game more fun on a pad.

The only reason the PC sales are poor is because of how bad a PC game it is, and due to word of mouth. If it was a better PC RPG, then it would be selling much better on the PC.

PC games have always sold more than console games do, and there is much more profit to be made on that platform. 

The reason why games sell well on consoles regardless of this is because console gamers really have no decent standards of what to expect from their games, and will pay for any rubbish game that is released with a load of marketting behind it.

Modifié par Brenus, 23 mars 2011 - 12:25 .

[Persephone]

Brenus wrote...

And obviously you are completely unaware that Bioware started out and were made successful by only making PC RPGs right?

Its so wonderful of them to completely abandon their loyal fanbase to gain console derps instead who like dumb and simplified hack and slash games. (sarcasm).

I can only speak for myself but I'd never call DA2 a hack n' slash game. (Combat was DAO's worst aspect too) I was caught up in the story (Politics, personal drama, "faith" vs. "heresy" rather than "Vanquish big evil)....I still am. Two words to address "console derps" who definitely aren't into storylines such as this: Lily Killer.

Modifié par Persephone, 23 mars 2011 - 12:26 .

[Persephone]

Well wrote...

Brenus wrote...

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

Well, if DA2 is the new direction the DAOseries takes, I won't be buying any DAgame ever again.

well thats ashame but for your loss of sale there will be a 100 more people buying it.

LMAO, boy are you beyond delusional.  

That is a understatement.

No. It's just rude.

[ejoslin]

If you read the first page of this thread, you will see that it was deliberately derailed. No one was putting down DA2 until someone came here screaming that people were (that was not the point of the thread at all) and how wrong and crazy they were.  It was completely out of left field, but apparently the person wanted to derail the thread, and managed to do so.

The thread actually was about whether the devs dislike DAO. No one was trashing DA2, nor console gamers, or anything. It's frustrating when you can't talk about something without it being derailed THIS badly.

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 mars 2011 - 12:28 .

[Brenus]

So you actually think the story in DA2 is good and worth paying $60 even though the gameplay is so terrible? Lol.

[Persephone]

Abraxas11 wrote...

I've certainly seen a fair amount of feedback that says, "I couldn't play Origins, I thought it was too slow, the story was too plodding, too typical, and Dragon Age II is awesome by comparison!"

I forgot the kubler-ross model...what comes after denial?

Edit: Sorry, didn't link www.eurogamer.net/articles/biowares-mike-laidlaw-a-defence-of-dragon-age-ii-interview

Never mind that this article is almost TWO WEEKS old.

[Pr3ying M4nt15 360]

Drake Sigar wrote...
But this is a slightly different situation. Bioware created a throwback to old school RPGs which received awards and was very successful. When people buy a sequel, they expect to get a similar experience to its predecessor, only much more polished and refined. There’s a certain comfortableness to be had from this predictable yet proven route. Reworking everything from the ground up after only one game is jarring, it scares them.

No its not a different situation. It follows a different character and a different story arc from DAO. Its designed to be a fresh and new experience set in the Dragon Age universe and ''might be'' the start of many games staring Hawke. But surely you must have all expected they were going to do this...

Mass Effect 2 was successful and that was a dramatic update from Mass Effect 1, a dramatic reworking.

They were bound to try and rework Dragon Age 2 for a broader audience. If anything the problem might be that they wasn't bold enough with the reworking - because in the end in trying to reach out for that broader audience but also keeping some of the elements from DAO1's gameplay - the diehard Dragon Age players have turned their back. I'd have been ruthless and turned it into an action game with combos and had RPG skill elements. If people are that hard to please why bother catering to them at all?

[upsettingshorts]

Gameplay's great on Nightmare. Way better than DAO's Nightmare.

Doesn't mean it's without flaws, though. The waves mechanic was poorly executed for starters.

[FuseBlues]

PC games have always sold more than console games do, and there is much more profit to be made on that platform.

It is, as always, a bit more complicated than that.

Like for like gaming sales (i.e. exclusing MMO, subscription and microtransaction), consoles have a much larger market share than PC games these days - at least in the context of AAA games (such as Bioware's pre-TOR titles).

[Pr3ying M4nt15 360]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Gameplay's great on Nightmare. Way better than DAO's Nightmare.

Doesn't mean it's without flaws, though. The waves mechanic was poorly executed for starters.

Exactly you can't hack and slash through nightmare.

[Persephone]

Brenus wrote...

So you actually think the story in DA2 is good and worth paying $60 even though the gameplay is so terrible? Lol.

I don't think the gameplay is terrible at all. I don't give a damn about tactics and blabla, I play on Casual to RPG MY CHARACTER. I don't care if I have to carry around 20 elfroots to make potions or if that has been simplified. (I like that too, never used crafting much in DAO) I prefer the faster pace  and I am using Mods to tweak what I dislike. All I'm left with now are the re-used areas. I can live with that. The Modders may even correct that, given time. (Bless you, DA Nexus!)

[Alex Kershaw]

Rofl. Of course SOME people say that - I'm sure some people think it's the best/worst game ever seen too. The fact is - you have to look at the average, and the Metacritic scores are down considerably.

[surfgirlusa_2006]

Origins is a great game, but it was by no means perfect. I'm sure it was wonderful on the PC, but responsiveness on the PS3 was awful. I almost always ended up playing a mage, simply because two handed warriors (my other main class) were so slow that usually by the time they finished swinging, the enemy had moved or was killed by one of my other party members. Also, the story WAS cliche. I won't say it was plodding, but the whole "gather your armies and take on a great evil" story has been done to death in the fantasy genre. I realize that it is still popular and that some people want to play those kinds of games exclusively, but it does wear thin after a while. Finally, everyone talks about the linearity of DA2. While this is true, Origins wasn't a lot better. After a second playthrough, I wanted to skip most of the game and get right to the Landsmeet, since that was one of the most interesting parts of the game (in my opinion), and was fun long after I became tired of dungeon crawls.

DA2 did improve upon certain elements of DA:O, in my opinion. I appreciate the attempt to move away from the formulaic storyline of DA:O (whether it was executed well is another matter), and I liked the improved responsiveness of the combat I also appreciated the addition of a voiced protagonist.

I do think Mr. Laidlaw and the other devs need to figure out what they're trying to make, though. Do they want a hard core RPG with extremely tactical combat and a sprawling landscape? Do they want to make action games with a solid story, like Uncharted 2 or Assassin's Creed 2? An action RPG, like Mass Effect 2? They're trying to satisfy everyone, and ultimately that results in alienating a lot of people, as we can see on the forums.

Ultimately, I hope that in creating DA3, the devs utilize the best elements from each DA game to make the new game as good as possible. I don't have a ton of confidence this will happen, but we shall wait and see.

[Pr3ying M4nt15 360]

Brenus wrote...

The reason why games sell well on consoles regardless of this is because console gamers really have no decent standards of what to expect from their games, and will pay for any rubbish game that is released with a load of marketting behind it.

How can you expect anyone to take your point seriously when you sit there throwing insults at console gamers like they are lesser beings than you. Most console gamers these days especially on the 360 are ex-PC gamers. I know all my friends are. I certainly am. We've just moved on with the times. It's too expensive to keep upgrading and I stopped 5 years ago.

You're lucky Bioware even still supports the PC market. I loved the PC market but people destroyed it man. Constant greed for hardware updates and piracy wrecked it. Theres probably as many people on the PC if not more playing Dragon Age 2 than on the 360 and PS3 put together but most of them were commenting complaining about Dragon Age 2 before it was even out in the stores. Is it any suprise more and more games are catered towards consoles. The laugh is everything in the game is still there for PC gamers as well.

And us console gamers are not meatheads. We enjoy indepth story and emotional content. We're just as mature or immature as the PC gamers.

Modifié par Pr3ying M4nt15 360, 23 mars 2011 - 12:39 .

[Balerion84]

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...

Balerion84 wrote...
I could post a list of things that are wrong with DA2, but seeing as you already made up your mind about everyone who doesn't agree with you, I'm not going to waste any time. The criticisms are everywhere, including reviews, so you can read them yourself.

There are plenty of things wrong with the game. Bugs, broken quests, a poor job on the import system especially after Mass Effect 2 and lack of variety being the most obvious. Poor distribution of money in the game and a whole lot of useless items given to you late in the game.

However fans are not complaining about that so much. They are screaming betrayal of their precious old mechanics. So can I confirm do we want the shuffle back?

Trouble is if you give these people what they want, which is basically DAO with new levels you turn away the mainstream and the console audience. Is there not a balance that can be struck here? I Personally think DA2's combat is really good, depth and rebalancing can be done but they should keep the core combat. Screw people who try to say its hack and slash. And if they want to bring back illusion of depth to the crafting and other things you RPG geeks want then fine. But I'm sorry they aren't taking the dialog wheel away or the friend/rival system its the best thing to happen to dragon age.

Thos are not the main problems of the game. Technical issues can be fixed but the game lacks direction, quests are like from an MMO, basically a to-do list, you just go from marker to marker to get exp. Then there's the whole thing with talking to companions. Tactical side of the battles is gone. The story is all over the place while never making clear why you are doing what you are doing. There's a lot more things wrong with the game, but I'm not going to bother repeating what was already said

Read this:
www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/03/14/wit-the-opening-hours-of-dragon-age-ii/
and you'll see exactly what I mean

[Drake Sigar]

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...

Drake Sigar wrote...
But this is a slightly different situation. Bioware created a throwback to old school RPGs which received awards and was very successful. When people buy a sequel, they expect to get a similar experience to its predecessor, only much more polished and refined. There’s a certain comfortableness to be had from this predictable yet proven route. Reworking everything from the ground up after only one game is jarring, it scares them.

No its not a different situation. It follows a different character and a different story arc from DAO. Its designed to be a fresh and new experience set in the Dragon Age universe and ''might be'' the start of many games staring Hawke. But surely you must have all expected they were going to do this...

Mass Effect 2 was successful and that was a dramatic update from Mass Effect 1, a dramatic reworking.

They were bound to try and rework Dragon Age 2 for a broader audience. If anything the problem might be that they wasn't bold enough with the reworking - because in the end in trying to reach out for that broader audience but also keeping some of the elements from DAO1's gameplay - the diehard Dragon Age players have turned their back. I'd have been ruthless and turned it into an action game with combos and had RPG skill elements. If people are that hard to please why bother catering to them at all?

Completely turning their back on the audience that made them great in the first place would give them a bad reputation, but more importantly on the business side it would basically mean putting all their eggs in one basket and reaching out to an audience who didn’t buy Origins and may not buy DA2 because it shares the same name. Bioware would also have to branch into a market with much stiffer competition. In comparison the entire RPG market is made up of them, Bethesda, and one or two German studios.

[Persephone]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Rofl. Of course SOME people say that - I'm sure some people think it's the best/worst game ever seen too. The fact is - you have to look at the average, and the Metacritic scores are down considerably.

I have never taken Metacritic seriously. Like ever.

[Pr3ying M4nt15 360]

Drake Sigar wrote...
Completely turning their back on the audience that made them great in the first place would give them a bad reputation, but more importantly on the business side it would basically mean putting all their eggs in one basket and reaching out to an audience who didn’t buy Origins and may not buy DA2 because it shares the same name. Bioware would also have to branch into a market with much stiffer competition. In comparison the entire RPG market is made up of them, Bethesda, and one or two German studios.

Well I agree I was really just making a point. They could have done that. But they didn't they do care about their original audience. But people are acting like they betrayed them.

[Eclipse_9990]

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...

I'm so sick to death of the whining about DA2.

The rehashing of too many dungeons is understandable. The game could have took place in Kirkwall still been spread accross 2 discs and had more dungeon enviroments to add variety.

But everything else is just blatant whining. So crafting has been dumbed down. Cry me a river... everything in the game has been streamlined to be more fun and the story breaks the mold of a traditional RPG storyline which also made people mad. You can't win. Bioware needs to ignore this minority and focus on the people who will make money... the mainstream the people who really enjoyed Dragon Age 2 more than Origins.

Wahhh Wahhh Wahhh it's not a carbon copy of Baldurs gate. Do you know how childish many people sound? It was exactly like this with Mass Effect 2. I'm tired of people trying to dictate what the terms of an RPG are. Go make your own RPG and get people to buy it. With Mass Effect 2 it was an inventory system. With Dragon Age 2 apparantly an Inventory system isn't enough so its the lack of dated clunky mechanics.

The game is just as tactical as DAO if not more. If casual gamers want to set it to easy mode / normal mode and hack and slash they can. But try hacking and slashing on hard mode.

Stop being a blind fanboy for a second. The majority of people know the game sucks. I bet even the dev's know the game sucks. But I don't think the're not going to admit it.. Atleast until DA3 comes out.. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 23 mars 2011 - 12:43 .

[Persephone]

Balerion84 wrote...

Thos are not the main problems of the game. Technical issues can be fixed but the game lacks direction, quests are like from an MMO, basically a to-do list, you just go from marker to marker to get exp. Then there's the whole thing with talking to companions. Tactical side of the battles is gone. The story is all over the place while never making clear why you are doing what you are doing. There's a lot more things wrong with the game, but I'm not going to bother repeating what was already said

Read this:
www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/03/14/wit-the-opening-hours-of-dragon-age-ii/
and you'll see exactly what I mean

I though questing was actually a major improvement in DA2. As for checklist, DAO was much worse.

1) Allies - Check
2) Landsmeet - Check
3) Final battle - Check

With sidequests & secondary quests being silly faction quests and finding sites of power, toxins & getting kids out of wardrobes.

[Persephone]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...

I'm so sick to death of the whining about DA2.

The rehashing of too many dungeons is understandable. The game could have took place in Kirkwall still been spread accross 2 discs and had more dungeon enviroments to add variety.

But everything else is just blatant whining. So crafting has been dumbed down. Cry me a river... everything in the game has been streamlined to be more fun and the story breaks the mold of a traditional RPG storyline which also made people mad. You can't win. Bioware needs to ignore this minority and focus on the people who will make money... the mainstream the people who really enjoyed Dragon Age 2 more than Origins.

Wahhh Wahhh Wahhh it's not a carbon copy of Baldurs gate. Do you know how childish many people sound? It was exactly like this with Mass Effect 2. I'm tired of people trying to dictate what the terms of an RPG are. Go make your own RPG and get people to buy it. With Mass Effect 2 it was an inventory system. With Dragon Age 2 apparantly an Inventory system isn't enough so its the lack of dated clunky mechanics.

The game is just as tactical as DAO if not more. If casual gamers want to set it to easy mode / normal mode and hack and slash they can. But try hacking and slashing on hard mode.

Stop being a blind fanboy for a second. The majority of people know the game sucks. I bet even the dev's know the game sucks. But I don't think the're not going to admit it.. Atleast until DA3 comes out.. 

What "majority" is that? I've seen people liking & disliking the game in a rather normal balance. I don't count release day outcries, they happen with every game. Like the BG crowed screaming up a storm that "DAO the spirtitual successor of BG? SACRILEGE!" when DAO was released.

[Edli]

Persephone wrote...

I though questing was actually a major improvement in DA2. As for checklist, DAO was much worse.

The questing system in DA2 is a mmo questing system. I felt like I was playing a mmo. Take a bunch of quests, follow the signs in different places and turn them in. Many times I didn't knew what quest I was doing in x place. It was a mess most of the times. You can't possibly call it better.

Modifié par Edli, 23 mars 2011 - 12:51 .

[Persephone]

Edli wrote...

Persephone wrote...

I though questing was actually a major improvement in DA2. As for checklist, DAO was much worse.

The questing system in DA2 is a mmo questing system. I felt like I was playing a mmo. Take a bunch of quests, follow the signs in different places and turn them in. Many times I didn't knew what quest I was doing in x place. You can't possibly call it better.

Same thing DAO. Same questing mechanics, down to the same ! marks over people's heads. I always knew what quest I was doing and many quests really got to me. (I,E. Lily Killer, Hadriana etc.)

[Eclipse_9990]

Persephone wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...

I'm so sick to death of the whining about DA2.

The rehashing of too many dungeons is understandable. The game could have took place in Kirkwall still been spread accross 2 discs and had more dungeon enviroments to add variety.

But everything else is just blatant whining. So crafting has been dumbed down. Cry me a river... everything in the game has been streamlined to be more fun and the story breaks the mold of a traditional RPG storyline which also made people mad. You can't win. Bioware needs to ignore this minority and focus on the people who will make money... the mainstream the people who really enjoyed Dragon Age 2 more than Origins.

Wahhh Wahhh Wahhh it's not a carbon copy of Baldurs gate. Do you know how childish many people sound? It was exactly like this with Mass Effect 2. I'm tired of people trying to dictate what the terms of an RPG are. Go make your own RPG and get people to buy it. With Mass Effect 2 it was an inventory system. With Dragon Age 2 apparantly an Inventory system isn't enough so its the lack of dated clunky mechanics.

The game is just as tactical as DAO if not more. If casual gamers want to set it to easy mode / normal mode and hack and slash they can. But try hacking and slashing on hard mode.

Stop being a blind fanboy for a second. The majority of people know the game sucks. I bet even the dev's know the game sucks. But I don't think the're not going to admit it.. Atleast until DA3 comes out.. 

What "majority" is that? I've seen people liking & disliking the game in a rather normal balance. I don't count release day outcries, they happen with every game. Like the BG crowed screaming up a storm that "DAO the spirtitual successor of BG? SACRILEGE!" when DAO was released.

Er.. The game has been out for quite a while now. Normally release day outcries would have died down by now.