476 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Balerion84 wrote...

Look people. It's fine if you don't care about metacritic. Me too. But you are also not those people deciding if the development of a sequel will continue or not. Metacritic is very important for the people who DO. So that means EA.
I expect DA3 to come out. But if it'll end up like with DA2, or god forbid, worse, you can say bye bye to DA franchise even if you yourselves give rat's a** about metacritic.

Sales are what matter to EA, surely.

Actually, if DA2 sells rwell but gets rubbish reviews, that should be a big encourage to have a sequel.  It shows that there is real demand for this sort of game, even if it was flawed.  Whereas if you get awesome reviews but no one buys the thing then you should probably scrap the series, because clearly not even a masterpiece will bring in the customers.

[Grestorn]

Stop being a blind fanboy for a second. The majority of people know the game sucks. I bet even the dev's know the game sucks. But I don't think the're not going to admit it.. Atleast until DA3 comes out.. 

Why don't you stop being a blind hater for a second? 

You really think that your oppinion has to be the universal truth. Even though there are people agreeing with you, and very loudly so, doesn't make it the undisputable correct opinion.

Because such a thing doesn't exist.

Get older. Get some experience with life. Then come back.

Modifié par Grestorn, 23 mars 2011 - 02:35 .

[Balerion84]

Wulfram wrote...

Balerion84 wrote...

Look people. It's fine if you don't care about metacritic. Me too. But you are also not those people deciding if the development of a sequel will continue or not. Metacritic is very important for the people who DO. So that means EA.
I expect DA3 to come out. But if it'll end up like with DA2, or god forbid, worse, you can say bye bye to DA franchise even if you yourselves give rat's a** about metacritic.

Sales are what matter to EA, surely.

In their heads, good metacritic score=good sales
That's been said many times. I remember Riccitello saying something along the lines, that they are aiming for 90+ metacritic, as people nowadays (shareholders included) consider anything below 80 a failure
The product would have to sell like hot cakes for them to totally ignore metacritic. We live in a society driven by numbers, that's a fact, not an opinion. 
DA2 sales might be good, mostly thanks to the reputation of DA:O and all those pre-orders (me included) based, again, on the quality of DA:O. 
If DA2 fails in review scores (which is happening right now), the amount of sales for the NEXT game will be affected. And if even THAT game fails both in sales and scores, well... 

Modifié par Balerion84, 23 mars 2011 - 02:38 .

[Mantaal]

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...

And people need to get off their horse about how Dragon Age 1 is somehow more indepth combat. You can just as easily turn the difficulty down and watch your characters hack and slash away in DA1 and you can just spam potions.

And whats this whining about the dialog wheel. The dialog wheel is awsome. Are you people insane?

Greetings Mike Laidlaw! How are you today? 

Didnt your Bioware mates tolt you to not troll in the Forums with a leetspeak name? 

[Grestorn]

Mantaal wrote...

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...

...

Greetings Mike Laidlaw! How are you today? 

Didnt your Bioware mates tolt you to not troll in the Forums with a leetspeak name? 

So you're saying that the only ones who could like this game must be its developers?

That's actually an insult to me and tens of thousands of other people.

[Iamnotahater]

Grestorn wrote...

Stop being a blind fanboy for a second. The majority of people know the game sucks. I bet even the dev's know the game sucks. But I don't think the're not going to admit it.. Atleast until DA3 comes out.. 

Why don't you stop being a blind hater for a second? 

You really think that your oppinion has to be the universal truth. Even though there are people agreeing with you, and very loudly so, doesn't make it the undisputable correct opinion.

Because such a thing doesn't exist.

Get older. Get some experience with life. Then come back.

If only there were some way to discern who had the universally held opinion. Like I don't know the user reviews for the game on a site like metacritic?

[billy the squid]

This is where most of the people criticising DA 2 differ in opinion, the oversimplification of game mechanics and customisation options, is not streamlining it is a response to the players, which for all intents and purposes may have well have been lobotomised in their demand for instant gratification.

Yet, as Mr. Laidlaw doesn't appear to bother understanding what the complaints about game mechanics were, its understandable that it is not so much of an issue for him, but to those who enjoyed DA O gameplay mechanics, all be it with its flaws, DA 2 simply disregards much of what made DAO appeal to those gamers whilst failing to appeal effectively to the FPS/ action gamer crowd.
The result is a basterdization of genres which remains a mess and creates a lost of resentment as DAO mechanics were not a huge problem, there were issues, but the whole system did not need to be gutted and re worked.

And no I'm not asking for a rehash of DA O,  but rather the same ideal of how the game functions, Mr. Laidlaw's comment of super blight shows that he has missed the point entirely. So, yes your game is getting a kicking, man up, accept it, learn from it and do better next time; or you could deny that there is anything wrong, p*ss people off even more with the ham handed interviews and wait and see how things work out for your DLC sales and DA3. I wouldn't get my hopes up. 

Modifié par billy the squid, 23 mars 2011 - 02:54 .

[brownybrown]

Balerion84 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Balerion84 wrote...

Look people. It's fine if you don't care about metacritic. Me too. But you are also not those people deciding if the development of a sequel will continue or not. Metacritic is very important for the people who DO. So that means EA.
I expect DA3 to come out. But if it'll end up like with DA2, or god forbid, worse, you can say bye bye to DA franchise even if you yourselves give rat's a** about metacritic.

Sales are what matter to EA, surely.

In their heads, good metacritic score=good sales
That's been said many times. I remember Riccitello saying something along the lines, that they are aiming for 90+ metacritic, as people nowadays (shareholders included) consider anything below 80 a failure
The product would have to sell like hot cakes for them to totally ignore metacritic. We live in a society driven by numbers, that's a fact, not an opinion. 
DA2 sales might be good, mostly thanks to the reputation of DA:O and all those pre-orders (me included) based, again, on the quality of DA:O. 
If DA2 fails in review scores (which is happening right now), the amount of sales for the NEXT game will be affected. And if even THAT game fails both in sales and scores, well... 

I really  expect the problems with da2 (for the record im enjoying it but   acknowleding that recyled environmetnts and  limited customizations with regards to companions are the sure signs of a rushed job) to affect the da2 dlc sales,  add to that the fact that DAO dlc was pretty poor value compared to   DAO  itself as well and I think a lot of people will shy away from  da2 dlc.

as for what Bioware and EA really think about  DA2 ? -  only time, personel changes and what  hints they dribble out about da3 will really tell us  the truth. If  laidlaw moves on, da goes back to having  dwarf/elf option and they take a longer time developing it(in order to  make the game longer with more varied environments) then we will know they have taken the constructive criticism of the bioware rpg  "base" to heart and sales expectations were not met. 
But if they keep Hawke (ala shepard), keep laidlaw and  promise a release date of  march 2012 then we will know that sales have been good and  they dont  really give  two hoots about us old timers and our dwindling numbers

[NKKKK]

"Sometimes change blah blah blah" David G....Morrigan in Witch Hunt

[Warheadz]

Am I the only one seeing similarities between Meredith and Laidlaw?

-Meredith isolated all the mage's completely, even locking them in their rooms, because they are evil and  a menace to humans.
-Laidlaw talks how most people love the game except haters from 4chan and people who haven't played the game. Suddendly, Ta-dah! Registered game owner forum.

-Meredith: I am right! I am doing what's best for the people! This is necessary to ensure everyone's bright future!
-Laidlaw: I am right! I am doing what's best for the people! This is necessary to ensure everyone's bright future!

- Meredith: She's the Knight-Commader
- Laidlaw: He's the lead designer.

I promise you, if Laidlaw could, he would probably invoke the Right of Annulment right now to remove us.

[Khayness]

Grestorn wrote...

So you're saying that the only ones who could like this game must be its developers?

That's actually an insult to me and tens of thousands of other people.

What do you have against video game developers?

[1Nosphorus1]

I said this before the game even came out, all of the interviews and slander that was the advertising campaign for DA2, made me think that if it's a failure, Bioware will can the franchise like they did with Jade Empire.

Be honest with yourselves too, the only reason it's doing "ok" at the moment is because of the success of the original, yet Bioware won't admit they rushed it to meet EA's demands, but Inon Zur did.

I'd give the game around a 7.5-8/10 excluding the bugs, but the experience was greatly dampened by them and I'm surprised it wasn't reviewed lower, after reading/watching the critics reviews barely any of them mentioned these game breaking bugs.

Now on topic, I read this when it came out two weeks ago, Bioware wont release a press release concerning their opinions on the game being bad if they want to keep their jobs, heck if one of their lead designers bails on the project because Bioware aren't going in the direction that he likes I'm sure you can comprehend what's happening in those offices (Disgruntled employees)

Dragon Age: Origins - December 2009 -> Dragon Age: 2 - March 2011

Development time is probably one of their shortest ever, I bet they barely had any sleep to get the game pushed out in that time limit.

[TheKnave69]

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...

Brenus wrote...

And obviously you are completely unaware that Bioware started out and were made successful by only making PC RPGs right?

Its so wonderful of them to completely abandon their loyal fanbase to gain console derps instead who like dumb and simplified hack and slash games. (sarcasm).

Look at the sales. 360 is double that of PC then PS3 is more than the PC as well. It's understandable why they would start pushing their games towards a console audience you can't really blame them for trying to make the game more fun on a pad.

Are you referring to the sales of DA 2, or overall game sales?  According to the linked article above:

"Today, PC gaming generates 43% of the total gaming revenue. The next closest platform is the Wii, which generated 24% of the total gaming revenue in 2009. And the PC share is growing – by 2013, the forecast is that PC gaming will represent 56% of the total pie."  

According to Eurogamer 57% of sales were 360, 22% were PS3 and 21% were PC http://www.eurogamer...ales-double-ps3 

According to VGChartz, "Four games debuted in the top 40, down from five the previous week. Dragon Age II (X360) is this week’s top debut, as the game also debuted for the PlayStation 3 and PC. The X360 version debuts at number two with sales of 393,000. The PS3 version debuts at number 4 with sales of 163,000. The PC version debuts at number six with sales of 144,000. The game debuted in America and EMEAA and has no plans to be released in Japan. The game was developed by BioWare Corp." http://www.vgchartz....-dragon-age-ii/ So you're looking at approx 700K first week global sales across all platforms.  

This is better than first week's release for DA:O on the console with 323K for the X360 and 116K for the PS3.  I don't have the first week's sales numbers for PC, but it was probably higher than 144K. (If someone has them, let me know). 

[BlameBot]

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...

I'm so sick to death of the whining about DA2.

The rehashing of too many dungeons is understandable. The game could have took place in Kirkwall still been spread accross 2 discs and had more dungeon enviroments to add variety.

But everything else is just blatant whining. So crafting has been dumbed down. Cry me a river... everything in the game has been streamlined to be more fun and the story breaks the mold of a traditional RPG storyline which also made people mad. You can't win. Bioware needs to ignore this minority and focus on the people who will make money... the mainstream the people who really enjoyed Dragon Age 2 more than Origins.

Wahhh Wahhh Wahhh it's not a carbon copy of Baldurs gate. Do you know how childish many people sound? It was exactly like this with Mass Effect 2. I'm tired of people trying to dictate what the terms of an RPG are. Go make your own RPG and get people to buy it. With Mass Effect 2 it was an inventory system. With Dragon Age 2 apparantly an Inventory system isn't enough so its the lack of dated clunky mechanics.

The game is just as tactical as DAO if not more. If casual gamers want to set it to easy mode / normal mode and hack and slash they can. But try hacking and slashing on hard mode.

I like how you complain about how childish people are, and post something that's more childish and tempermental. It's refreshingly...

Hypocritical.

[Mad-Max90]

Hey in all fairness, Charlie Sheen has a sold out tour and is going back to two and a half men with a raise, so I guess in the case of Charlie sheen he is winning?
I think mike might be talking in terms of combat, hopefully, that being said it was a bit improved, here's hoping dragon age 3 will be more of a choice driven game that centres around Hawke destroying Orlais...please

[G0A]

I'll be able to give my proper verdict on this game when the promised auto-attack feature is reimplemented.

Tick tock, Bioware. I can't imagine PC gamers would stand for continuous mouse button mashing just to perform a basic attack, why should those who play DA2 on consoles? 

Modifié par G0A, 23 mars 2011 - 03:57 .

[BlameBot]

Uh, I remember having to mash mouse buttons to just attack some guy attacking me. I played on PC. So.. yeah.

[Mad-Max90]

Oh and How did this thread turn into an elitist pc war? Sales don't lie man, deal with the fact that bioware across the board nowadays have higher sale rates on console than on the pc, xbox sales alone account for more than their pc sales, you really can't throw in outdated console sales from 2 years ago, because like we all know things change. So yes I agree if consoles sell more games for them maybe they should start to cater a little more to us "derp" players since we are by far the largest chunk of their sales.

I ain't even mad

[BlameBot]

... What are you talking about? Where did that come from?

[G0A]

BlameBot wrote...

Uh, I remember having to mash mouse buttons to just attack some guy attacking me. I played on PC. So.. yeah.

Stop talking rubbish, the PC version plays very differently to the console. One click and your character will continue to attack vs button mash just to swing a weapon once.

I literally cannot play the game at present due to this, do you have any idea how crazy it is to control a rouge without AA?

BlameBot wrote...

... What are you talking about? Where did that come from?

Read the thread, kid.

Modifié par G0A, 23 mars 2011 - 04:12 .

[AloraKast]

Balerion84 wrote...

Yes, you are right. It's me not liking disjointed, rushed game. Sorry about that.
And you are wrong. I want MORE games where you start as a nobody. But in this case, the story simply fails. Why am I going to Deep Roads at the start of the game? I had like 80 gold by the time I finished everything before going there and I didn't know what to spend them on, so I was buying maker's sigh and just trying different skills. So why am I supposed to go to the Deep Roads again? When I came back I had less money than when I went there.

And what's about the quests? I had no idea what most of the sidequests were about. I just found something, somewhere, when I was doing something completely different and then I saw a new marker on the map. So I went there, and that person took some item from me, thanked me and gave me some money? What? Is this really what sidequests became in rpgs? No background to them, just go there, bring that, get exp? 
Like I said, I didn't even know why I was doing most of the stuff. I found myself running from marker to marker to get exp, never cared why. In DA:O I was reading codex entries to the side quests, they gave me hnts, some nice background, but in DA2 I never did. I never felt the need for it.

As for the battles, sure, they might be fun on the console, but I'm used to more than that. And the battles aren't even my biggest problem with the game, they can be easily fixed. Removing the endless spawning of waves of enemies that took away the tactical positioning of my team from previous games would be a good start.

And don't get me started about the ridiculousness of the way how your companions react when you walk WITH THEM in their house, with the game totally ignoring what happened outside the sequence.

But in the end, DA2 is shiny, so I understand why many people get so easily distracted and don't notice the lack of substance in this game. 
This is not about DA2 not being like BG2. This is about DA2 being rushed and lacking substance. About DA2 being a disjointed experience. Sorry, that my standards are higher than that, it's obviously my fault for wanting quality in these days.

/rant

Alas... spot on Balerion84, spot on. And in a Bioware game, no less. This definitely is cause for the following:  perhaps even

*sigh* I don't know whether Mike Laidlaw was simply trying to be optimistic (taking into consideration the date of the interview), is very excited about DA2 and actually prefers it over DA:O (yes, even devs are allowed to have personal preferences) or is taking into consideration only the positive reviews while ignoring the negative feedback. My only hope is that the last point is not the case.

Bioware (or whoever has the ultimate say) can certainly choose the direction that they want their company to go. It's true that while deciding their own path they also have a (rather significant) say in which direction the games they are famous for (in this case RPGs) go. Personally I am not fond (or I guess I cannot appreciate) the path down which they have decided to steer the Dragon Age franchise. Many things that have captured my heart in DA:O have been streamlined, the fat trimmed, corners cut, whatever, and while DA2 still contains some of the elements that made me fall in love with Bioware games in the past, it certainly is not what I (and I gather others on this forum expressing their disappointment) expected/was looking for from a sequel to DA:O.

*sigh* But what can I, as a consumer, do in the end? I can express my views, which I have already done in the official feedback thread, and hope that they will be read by the devs and not dismissed out of hand. I can also exercise caution in future Dragon Age titles, be they DLCs, expansions or DA3 (or I can simply not buy them at all). That is all I can do really, for as much as certain aspects of DA2 make my blood boil and I want to do nothing but give the devs a good smacking (in the same vein as GODDAMMIT Anders, I have experienced a few of the GODDAMMIT Bioware moments), after a while it all gets rather exhausting.

The decisions you made (and continue to make) Bioware are yours to do so. Know that (most of) the ****ing on these forums stems from our fierce love and thus protectiveness of your past products, be they DA:O or Baldur's Gate and anything/everything in between. You have provided us with countless hours of fantastic and grand adventuring (not to mention blissful immersion) and the possibility of losing that high quality experience we have become accustomed to is... rather frightening.

My only hope is that you will, in fact, take into consideration all of the reviews, fan feedback, constructive criticism, etc. and not merely focus on the good to justify the risks you have taken.

(sorry for the rant folks, guess everything I see unfolding before me with respect to the Dragon Age franchise is getting me down)

[BlameBot]

Read the thread. Still not seeing much 'elitism.'

Also agreement with above. Honestly, all Bioware needed to do with this game to make me love it is to take a bit more time to refine it. Make the combat less... cartoonish, and slightly less fast. Beef up the storyline, especially in the start. Get rid of those godawful 'Oh, you found this? Thanks!' quests, or at least have them lead to something more.

Take. Your. Time.

Do. It. Right.

Modifié par BlameBot, 23 mars 2011 - 04:32 .

[Aesieru]

It's pretty insulting and ignorant that he'd defend his and say "mmm Perfects", knowing that his game is anything BUT (as not even DA was perfect, but it was understandable), but that once the bad ratings come out, OMG it's obviously because it's not a bad game, just that they were too attached to DA-1.

[Merced652]

Persephone wrote...

Brenus wrote...

And obviously you are completely unaware that Bioware started out and were made successful by only making PC RPGs right?

Its so wonderful of them to completely abandon their loyal fanbase to gain console derps instead who like dumb and simplified hack and slash games. (sarcasm).

I can only speak for myself but I'd never call DA2 a hack n' slash game. (Combat was DAO's worst aspect too) I was caught up in the story (Politics, personal drama, "faith" vs. "heresy" rather than "Vanquish big evil)....I still am. Two words to address "console derps" who definitely aren't into storylines such as this: Lily Killer.

A retarded, nonsensical plot which you, the player are railroaded in to as a means to engender hatred for mages is supposed to be hailed by all as good story or something?