175 réponses à ce sujet

[Suron]

...to be a mage?

it makes NO sense.

You go around throwing fireballs and crap..hell can even spec blood mage...and no one cares.

sure some comments are made..but nothing comes of it.

And Meredith brushing it off as "Hawke saved Kirkwall" is totally idiotic.  As Wesley said at the start..."The order dictates"...ESPECIALLY when Meredith starts going bat-crap-crazy.  Hawke being an apostate is just waved off...it's idiotic...EVEN in context of the "story."

Don't get me wrong..mages are fun..especially in DA2 (oddly prefer them and their specs in DA2 over DA:O) but this makes no sense.  Also I'm NOT for restricting us more...as a lot of the customization they remo...I mean "streamlined"....in DA2 was too much (imo.)

But, again, it just doesn't make sense.

Why if Hawke is limited to human only because the "story dictates"...then why, considering the "story" are we even allowed to be a Mage?  AT LEAST the ENTIRE 3rd act shoulda been us hiding from templars and being persued..if not LONG BEFORE that...but ESPECIALLY once Meredith goes batso.

and as a side thing...why is there a codex entry that goes through the trouble of explaining why teleporting is impossible as a mage...yet EVERY mage just about teleports around the battlefield with no issues in this game?..but I digress.

So please, tell me how this makes ANY sense...and why a Mage Hawke would even get the "choice" (lol "choice" in DA2 is an oxymoron) to side with the Mages when Meredith is bat-crap-crazy and wants EVERY Mage in Kirkwall killed?

And of course this means in context of the "story"..because if there was at least some kind of reaction to your being a mage and/or some semblance of "hiding" or "laying low" then I wouldn't even be posting this....I mean why can I walk around in robes and carrying a staff while tossing fireballs at every brigand that looks at me wrong and not get negative reaction from SOMEONE or having the Templars turn on me? ESPECIALLY Cullen...him not even REMARKING on your magic when you save him outside of town is absolutely idiotic.

[Talladarr]

You know, I have to give you this one. To be honest, I woudl have LOVED to make one of these "new elves"

[ongnei]

DA2 win in gameplay and graphic,but alot of people agree it sucks in story and logic..I actually slash my character wrist infront of templar and nothing happen,I was laughing very loudly=D

[Talladarr]

Rofl

[Lithuasil]

Because The (excellent) story and the (in its own right quite ok) gameplay were made by different teams, in different buildings, presumably on different continents.

[AntiChri5]

The first act is entirely built around Hawke gathering enough wealth and prestige that the Templars cannot touch the mage Hawke (pc or bethany).

[Suron]

ongnei wrote...

DA2 win in gameplay and graphic,but alot of people agree it sucks in story and logic..I actually slash my character wrist infront of templar and nothing happen,I was laughing very loudly=D

well that's another thing...that I don't want to get into other then to say.....they need to tone it down.  Mage or not..impaling yourself with a staff should kill you...I cringe every time Merrill does it (I haven't taken blood magic on my Hawke so only see Merrills version)

[AntiChri5]

Is gameplay story segregation really such s foreign concept?

Your entire party in Origins (except for Allistair) should have died from the Blight.

[Tleining]

After you arrive in Kirkwall, the Smugglers/Mercs protect you (Mage-Hawke) from the Templars (bribe). After that year of servitude, you need to protect yourself, for that you need Money, hence the DeepRoads Expedition. After that the Viscount takes notice of you, apparently he's using what influence he has to protect you. And Meredith doesn't do anything against you, because you are a useful tool to her.

[Suron]

AntiChri5 wrote...

The first act is entirely built around Hawke gathering enough wealth and prestige that the Templars cannot touch the mage Hawke (pc or bethany).

bs.

Bethany is taken by the Templars if you don't take her to the deep roads.  There is NO WAY any mage can rise high enough in the chantry's eyes to not fall into their laws about mages having to be in the circle.

so no...you're wrong..Hawkes power and prestige would account for nothing once it's found out (s)he's a mage..ESPECIALLY if you're a blood mage.

the ONLY support Hawke may get is from the populace..and not even many of them because the MAJORITY fear mages....and for even those that would stick up for Hawke once (s)he's gotten that high in prestige wouldn't matter to Meredith OR the Chantry as a whole...ONLY Warden mages are "legally" outside of Chantry law.  And as we saw in Awakening some Templars don't even care about that...and Meredith obviously wouldn't either.

[Dr. Nexas]

Because being a mage doesn't require 4 more full voice actors.

[Talladarr]

I have to agree with you Suron, It's really quite ridiculous how stupid it can get

[RazorrX]

I totally agree. Bethany should have been the only mage in the family. You should not have been a mage since the game IGNORES the fact.

This is the same reasoning that Hawke should not be able to pick blood mage as a spec. Blood Mages are put down like rabid dogs in the game, but they ignore you doing it. Also it gives the player totally different powers than it does the npcs thus making the story make even less sense.

[ongnei]

Hahaha Suron I fully agree,I was shock to see a Templar taking away Bethany just because Im a good kid obeying my mother by not taking Bethany with me,in the end my mother die to some blood mage..what a story..Im living alone in a big mansion with 2 dwarf and a dog..Sometime I really pity my character..

[Noatz]

While you have a point in terms of Hawke's evasion of Templar notice at times feels a little unrealistic, your initial mode of comparison isn't a good argument.

Being a mage does not necessitate an entirely different background, Regardless of whether you are a mage or not you will be running from the Templars anyway. Your family has mages in it, this is the context of the story. Being an elf is a completely different story.

Edit: About the blood mage spec. It does feel wrong, its a gameplay allowance. I feel they perhaps should not have used it and had a shapeshifting spec instead or something considering the nature of the story. But then there'd just be whine about "wtf why can't I be a blood mage lol game sucks" wouldn't there.

Modifié par Noatz, 23 mars 2011 - 12:59 .

[sevalaricgirl]

The story is very broken. Cullen says that we need to protect people like us (him and Hawke) from mages. I believe it was Thrask who says why do some people feel sympathy towards the plight of the mages (this is taken out of context of course) to Hawke. The npcs in the game don't even know that Hawke is a mage even though she's using magic all over the place to kill things, only the party companions and Athenriel or the mercenary and family members know. The only time I remember anyone saying anything about my Hawke being a mage was when she said no to Meredith.  Not to mention my Hawke was in mage robes,  That hide weapons mod makes sense.

Modifié par sevalaricgirl, 23 mars 2011 - 01:00 .

[AntiChri5]

Bethany is taken by the Templars if you don't take her to the deep roads.  There is NO WAY any mage can rise high enough in the chantry's eyes to not fall into their laws about mages having to be in the circle.

so no...you're wrong..Hawkes power and prestige would account for nothing once it's found out (s)he's a mage..ESPECIALLY if you're a blood mage.

the ONLY support Hawke may get is from the populace..and not even many of them because the MAJORITY fear mages....and for even those that would stick up for Hawke once (s)he's gotten that high in prestige wouldn't matter to Meredith OR the Chantry as a whole...ONLY Warden mages are "legally" outside of Chantry law.  And as we saw in Awakening some Templars don't even care about that...and Meredith obviously wouldn't either.

Bethany specifically says in act 1 that you need to amass power and wealth so that the Templars cannot get to you. She is taken before you can amass this, and goes willingly so that she will not be a burden.

Meredith knows Anders is an apostate, but does not mess with him because Hawke is too powerful. Take Anders with you when doing that quest for Meredith in act 3 and they will bicker, she directly calls him "mage".

Hawke becomes very powerful in Kirlwall.

Act 1 = Unknown.

Act 2 = Protected by Viscount because you are working for him

Act 3 = Champion. Second most powerful person in the city, who Meredith wants as an ally, not an enemy.

[Suron]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Bethany is taken by the Templars if you don't take her to the deep roads.  There is NO WAY any mage can rise high enough in the chantry's eyes to not fall into their laws about mages having to be in the circle.

so no...you're wrong..Hawkes power and prestige would account for nothing once it's found out (s)he's a mage..ESPECIALLY if you're a blood mage.

the ONLY support Hawke may get is from the populace..and not even many of them because the MAJORITY fear mages....and for even those that would stick up for Hawke once (s)he's gotten that high in prestige wouldn't matter to Meredith OR the Chantry as a whole...ONLY Warden mages are "legally" outside of Chantry law.  And as we saw in Awakening some Templars don't even care about that...and Meredith obviously wouldn't either.

Bethany specifically says in act 1 that you need to amass power and wealth so that the Templars cannot get to you. She is taken before you can amass this, and goes willingly so that she will not be a burden.

Meredith knows Anders is an apostate, but does not mess with him because Hawke is too powerful. Take Anders with you when doing that quest for Meredith in act 3 and they will bicker, she directly calls him "mage".

Hawke becomes very powerful in Kirlwall.

Act 1 = Unknown.

Act 2 = Protected by Viscount because you are working for him

Act 3 = Champion. Second most powerful person in the city, who Meredith wants as an ally, not an enemy.

Anders is a Warden.  Even if he "left" them...Warden mages don't fall under the same laws.  hence conscription.

you're wrong...fact.

oh and if power and prestige mattered then why would Isolde hire an apostate to teach her son to hide his magic if power and prestige would keep someone out of the circle?

you, my friend, need to re-read DA lore.  you're just flat out wrong.  whether you want to admit it or not.

[Tleining]

@ Suron
right, because in Origins there was no Mage who lived outside of the Circle and studied Shale or anything.

[Pandaman102]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Bethany specifically says in act 1 that you need to amass power and wealth so that the Templars cannot get to you. She is taken before you can amass this, and goes willingly so that she will not be a burden.

Meredith knows Anders is an apostate, but does not mess with him because Hawke is too powerful. Take Anders with you when doing that quest for Meredith in act 3 and they will bicker, she directly calls him "mage".

Hawke becomes very powerful in Kirlwall.

Act 1 = Unknown.

Act 2 = Protected by Viscount because you are working for him

Act 3 = Champion. Second most powerful person in the city, who Meredith wants as an ally, not an enemy.

The Act 3 reason is mildly plausible, assuming you aren't stabbing yourself with a staff and fueling your spells with the tomato juice that springs forth, but the Seneschal tells you quite plainly that the last Viscount was a tyrant that nobody liked and couldn't be removed... until he pissed off the Templars.

Does that sound like an office with enough influence to keep the Templars off the back of an apostate, much less a maleficar?

[Annie_Dear]

Suron wrote...

 There is NO WAY any mage can rise high enough in the chantry's eyes to not fall into their laws about mages having to be in the circle.

Meredith openly states that the reason they let mage Hawke run free is because he/she is the Champion, and that if he/she doesn't help her in the beginning of act 3, she'll have him/her locked up in the Gallows.

[AntiChri5]

Anders is a Warden.  Even if he "left" them...Warden mages don't fall under the same laws.  hence conscription.

Leaving the Wardens means you are going to be executed more then left to eternal freedom. Leaving them means you lose their protection.

you're wrong...fact.

This has to be the most senseless thing to say in a debate. If it is a fact that i am wrong doing so should be easy to prove, simply stating that i am is useless.

oh and if power and prestige mattered then why would Isolde hire an apostate to teach her son to hide his magic if power and prestige would keep someone out of the circle?

Because being the second most important person in Kirkwall is different to beig the 10th most important person in Ferelden?

you, my friend, need to re-read DA lore.  you're just flat out wrong.  whether you want to admit it or not.

I am better aquanted with the DA lore then you. In The Stolen Throne, there are two mages operating outside of the Circle who have strong political connections.

[AntiChri5]

The Act 3 reason is mildly plausible, assuming you aren't stabbing yourself with a staff and fueling your spells with the tomato juice that springs forth, but the Seneschal tells you quite plainly that the last Viscount was a tyrant that nobody liked and couldn't be removed... until he pissed off the Templars.

Does that sound like an office with enough influence to keep the Templars off the back of an apostate, much less a maleficar?

It depends entirely on how they handle the situation.

The Viscount likely does not have enough pull to shelter you indefinately, but he can keep you safe for a while before the Templars start moving politically. Remember, it takes them three years after the Viscount dies before they start trying to take over the guard.

[GuyWhoLovesCakes]

Let's face it this game has so many plot holes that even a 9 year would notice.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Being "important" is not a good enough reason for the Templars to ignore an apostate or blood mage.

The most powerful mages have to earn a measure of leniency through years of proving themselves in the Circle. Being a "useful tool" or "the Champion" would be all the more reason for them to want to regulate your abilities and keep a watchful eye on that high level of power you wield.

It really doesn't make sense to play a mage in this game. It's all hand waving and convenience. Which is necessary to a point, yes, but this issue goes way beyond the petty hand-waves of the first game like not succumbing to darkspawn blood in battle.