244 réponses à ce sujet

[randName]

SirSwordBlaster wrote...
Dragon Age Origins is one of the best RPGs ever made.

Opinions - I have at least 10 RPGs I'd place before DA:O, and several of those are from BW.

So you find DA:O to be one of the best RPGs ever made, but you seem to claim it to be universally so (Many of my old cRPG friends would just laugh at that, I don't since I like DA:O) 

[Deified Data]

SirSwordBlaster wrote...

And for the fanboys, ¿Do I have to say sorry for being dissapointed after years of waiting with expectation a REAL sequel of a game that i wouldn't not sell for 10000$ if mine was the last copy?

[fanboy]No, no apologies necessary. I just don't understand why you're still posting here is all. Just how much do you have to vent, exactly? Wouldn't your time be better spent playing an RPG you enjoy as opposed to whining about one you hate? Are you trying to change the minds of people who already played and enjoyed DAII (a futile effort), or are you trying to validate your opinion through mob mentality?[/fanboy]

[Otterwarden]

gotthammer wrote...

Is the 'hate' (too strong a word, that) deserved? I personally think so.
I enjoyed it, sure, but it was quite disappointing and I do agree w/ most, if not all, of the critic's points (I do think 2.5/10 is too harsh, tho').

The fan disappointment stems from the recognition that. with each developer who sells out their souls trying to redefine RPG to be something that is diluted beyond recognition to be more inclusive (profitable), finding games that they enjoy is truly turning into a hunt for the Holy Grail.  But, no matter how Bioware/EA chooses to "evolve", these players are going to continue wandering on this elusive quest, and they will leave trail markers for others to warn them when not to waste their time and coin following a false lead (much as the tile of his review does).

“Click” signal marker:  “Not cRPG, rather console action RPG, enter
repetitive dungeon if you wish, but don’t expect to find successor of DA:O.”

As for "hate", it is mainly directed at the thief back in the city who sold them the tip. 

 

[mcha82]

Then again DA2 a sequel. And a blatant attempt at milking the cash cow after Origin's success. Short development cycle, shorter story, many corners cut in development, aggressive marketing, day 1 DLC etc. And changing the setting and gameplay to attract a new audience at the cost of alienating the established fans... It just might deserve a 2.5 in that context.

[Shirosaki17]

I just realized ME3 will probably have day 1 dlc. LAME

[Merced652]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

I just realized ME3 will probably have day 1 dlc. LAME

Least this time you might actually get to converse with a zaheed or kasumi. btw me2 had day 1 dlc with the cerberus network. 

Modifié par Merced652, 24 mars 2011 - 01:36 .

[Otterwarden]

mcha82 wrote...

Then again DA2 a sequel. And a blatant attempt at milking the cash cow after Origin's success. Short development cycle, shorter story, many corners cut in development, aggressive marketing, day 1 DLC etc. And changing the setting and gameplay to attract a new audience at the cost of alienating the established fans... It just might deserve a 2.5 in that context.

Yep, they were asked to help fund Bioware/EA's expedition into the Deep Roads... wonder if they found their treasure?

[Shirosaki17]

Merced652 wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...

I just realized ME3 will probably have day 1 dlc. LAME

Least this time you might actually get to converse with a zaheed or kasumi. btw me2 had day 1 dlc with the cerberus network. 

yeah but that stuff was suppose to be in the game. That's why it was free. Even Kasumi was suppose to be in the original game. They said you'd have 12 squadmates in ME2.

No I'm talking about there being a DLC separate from the game, that was probably intended to be in the original game, but was cut, that you have to pay for. May not even be free for preordering.

[Gatt9]

tanerb123 wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

tanerb123 wrote...

i always tust gamespot with their reviews and i believe 8/10 is the appropriate score for this game

Why would you trust a website that has alot of evidence indicating it fired reviewers for not giving it's advertiser's game a high enough rating? 

i never saw gamespot giving a high rating to a bad game. they are quite straightforward and i saw many advertised games getting  5 or 6 in their reviews.

I'm afraid I didn't explain myself clearly,  what I meant was,  it's very public knowledge that Gamespot fired one of their employees when he refused to "Rereview" a game their advertiser felt didn't get a sufficiently high score.  Within the next few weeks a good number of other staff quit.

I'm not trying to change your mind about the website,  I'm just intensely curious if you knew that?

Opinions - I have at least 10 RPGs I'd place before DA:O, and several of those are from BW.

So you find DA:O to be one of the best RPGs ever made, but you seem to claim it to be universally so (Many of my old cRPG friends would just laugh at that, I don't since I like DA:O)

I agree.  Fallout,  Fallout 2,  Planescape Torment,  Bard's Tale 2,  Baldur's Gate 2,  Phantasie 3,  Final Fantasy 2,  Final Fantasy 7,  Diablo,  Diablo 2,  Might & Magic (series),  Ultima(series),  Dragon Age Origins,  KotOR,  KotOR2,  Mass Effect,   then the rest were cool but not on my list.

Truth be told,  DAO wasn't bad,  but it wasn't amazing either.  The main quest Fade visit dragged horribly,  the evil path wasn't sufficiently fleshed out,  and for every great NPC there was a "Just ok" one.  For the length of time it was in development I expected at least Baldur's Gate 2's quality.  The story was good,  but the pacing was a little off at times and so were the NPC's. 

I did enjoy it,  but it's not high on my pedastal.

[Altima Darkspells]

Shirosaki17 wrote...

I just realized ME3 will probably have day 1 dlc. LAME

The miracle will be if it's only one Day One DLC...

[nicethugbert]

Here is my problem with that review and people who don't like DA2: is there anything better? I don't think so. DA2 is as good as everything  else on average.  It's got it's good and it's bad.

DA2 haters keep mentioning DA1 but I got bored of DA1 half way through, as I often do of these games even though I finish them. You knew you were gunning for Loghain and the Arch Demon since early in the first act. Everything else was just a speed bump towards the inevitable ass kicking you were going to give them two **** birds. The excitement in playing a story based game is at the beginning of the game when you are trying to figure out who the baddies are and what they are up to and which side you are on. After that, It's just a matter of mopping up.

DA2 kept me guessing much more than other game who the villians were and what they were upto and how they were upto it and what side I am on.  There was always the possibility that I chose the wrong side or that there were no clean cut sides.  There were many potential villians.  Everybody was under duress and could snap at any minute. I suspected Meredith was up to no good, but that is easy, she is trashed through out the story and her supporters are blind. So, it's possible she isn't as bad as she's made out to be,  She is wrapped in mystery all the way through.  In any other game, Meredith's story would have been given up in the first act.

Orsino did not show up until the third act. Any other game would have introduced him at the first act and had you run quests for him against Meredith.

The Arishok was rolled out slowly. Any other game would have given him up in one second.  Other games give
everything up in the first act, the rest of the content is just speed bump.

It's especially quirky to hear NWN2 and NWN1 players complaining about DA2 because "everybody" knows the OC sucks. And, since when do we listen to reviewers? We all know they're encouraged to give good reviews.
So, what we have here is a case of the good old double standard.

Incidentally, Angry Joe DA2 Review for goofy ****s and giggles and for a good positive review of the
gameplay and UI. Although, he is angry about the characters and stuff, which I think is no worse than in other games including NWN2 and NWN1 and DA1.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 24 mars 2011 - 02:49 .

[dzizass]

I disagree on DA2 being worse than DA:O. DA2 is actually much better when it comes to 2 key elements for an RPG: better story and better dialogues. Even though they are still abysmal.
Overall, 2.5/10 is a perfectly fair score for DA2.

[Akulakhan]

dzizass wrote...

I disagree on DA2 being worse than DA:O. DA2 is actually much better when it comes to 2 key elements for an RPG: better story and better dialogues. Even though they are still abysmal.
Overall, 2.5/10 is a perfectly fair score for DA2.

Hahaha oh wow...

So you are saying that Monkey's Island and others advetures are RPGs simply because they "have story" and multiple choices of dialogue while Wizardry, The Elder Scrolls, Ultima Underworld, Golden Box games, roguelikes and other infinity of RPGs are not real RPGs because they don't have key elements like the ability of speaking like a holy paladin or the devil himself while you interact with stereotyped characters that come straight from a Disney's teen tv show or some anime.


RPGs are all about character skill > player skill working on a ruleset (like GURPS or D&D), anything else is just flavor. Saying that key elements of RPGs are story and dialogues is pretty retarded.

Modifié par Akulakhan, 24 mars 2011 - 05:03 .

[mcha82]

dzizass wrote...

I disagree on DA2 being worse than DA:O. DA2 is actually much better when it comes to 2 key elements for an RPG: better story and better dialogues. Even though they are still abysmal.
Overall, 2.5/10 is a perfectly fair score for DA2.

What "story" are you referring to? Until the final act of DA2, the story is very abstract and nonexistant. There are hints at it and events that might effect your opinion, but it is very much Hawke bopping around Kirkwall at the behest of other people.

Modifié par mcha82, 24 mars 2011 - 07:33 .

[dzizass]

mcha82 wrote...

What "story" are you referring to? Until the final act of DA2, the story is very abstract and nonexistant. There are hints at it and events that might effect your opinion, but it is very much Hawke bopping around Kirkwall at the behest of other people.

The same crappy story you're reffering to. Anything is better than the "join an ancient order, save the world" plot BW has been selling in every single game.

Akulakhan wrote...

Hahaha oh wow...

So you are saying that Monkey's Island and others advetures are RPGs simply because they "have story" and multiple choices of dialogue while Wizardry, The Elder Scrolls, Ultima Underworld, Golden Box games, roguelikes and other infinity of RPGs are not real RPGs because they don't have key elements like the ability of speaking like a holy paladin or the devil himself while you interact with stereotyped characters that come straight from a Disney's teen tv show or some anime.

RPGs are all about character skill > player skill working on a ruleset (like GURPS or D&D), anything else is just flavor. Saying that key elements of RPGs are story and dialogues is pretty retarded.

This is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time. Considering that I read a lot on the internet, congratulations are due. Bravo!
Saying that, let's say Diablo is an RPG would have only been extremely stupid. But wow, you managed to go a step further: FIFA2010 also has character skills and player skills working on a ruleset. So it's kind of like a football RPG (story, dialogues and other unnecesary flavour is gone). Congratulations.
If you read my post a thousand times, you might see that nowhere did I write that RPGs boil down to having story and dialogues.
Planescape:Torment has an extremely ****ty ruleset and still is probably the best cRPG of all time, thanks to its story and dialogues. Vampire:Bloodlines has a mediocre ruleset but is great thanks to its dialogues. Fallout 1/2 had great rulesets but would have also failed if they weren't backed up with a solid story and good dialogues. Fallout: New Vegas shares the same ruleset with Fallout 3 (almost). New Vegas is great though, while Fallout 3 is terrible. I'll let you guess why. If you play any PnP RPGs, you will quickly discover that the ruleset is much less important than the dungeon master's and other players ROLE playing skills.

Also: Elders Scrolls is for retards.

Modifié par dzizass, 24 mars 2011 - 01:20 .

[v_ware]

OMG 4CHAN BE EVIL.

Pssh.


What if...
Hear me out...
What if...

...
They really didn't like the game.

[Akulakhan]

dzizass wrote...

mcha82 wrote...

What "story" are you referring to? Until the final act of DA2, the story is very abstract and nonexistant. There are hints at it and events that might effect your opinion, but it is very much Hawke bopping around Kirkwall at the behest of other people.

The same crappy story you're reffering to. Anything is better than the "join an ancient order, save the world" plot BW has been selling in every single game.

Akulakhan wrote...

Hahaha oh wow...

So you are saying that Monkey's Island and others advetures are RPGs simply because they "have story" and multiple choices of dialogue while Wizardry, The Elder Scrolls, Ultima Underworld, Golden Box games, roguelikes and other infinity of RPGs are not real RPGs because they don't have key elements like the ability of speaking like a holy paladin or the devil himself while you interact with stereotyped characters that come straight from a Disney's teen tv show or some anime.

RPGs are all about character skill > player skill working on a ruleset (like GURPS or D&D), anything else is just flavor. Saying that key elements of RPGs are story and dialogues is pretty retarded.

This is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time. Considering that I read a lot on the internet, congratulations are due. Bravo!
Saying that, let's say Diablo is an RPG would have only been extremely stupid. But wow, you managed to go a step further: FIFA2010 also has character skills and player skills working on a ruleset. So it's kind of like a football RPG (story, dialogues and other unnecesary flavour is gone). Congratulations.
If you read my post a thousand times, you might see that nowhere did I write that RPGs boil down to having story and dialogues.
Planescape:Torment has an extremely ****ty ruleset and still is probably the best cRPG of all time, thanks to its story and dialogues. Vampire:Bloodlines has a mediocre ruleset but is great thanks to its dialogues. Fallout 1/2 had great rulesets but would have also failed if they weren't backed up with a solid story and good dialogues. Fallout: New Vegas shares the same ruleset with Fallout 3 (almost). New Vegas is great though, while Fallout 3 is terrible. I'll let you guess why. If you play any PnP RPGs, you will quickly discover that the ruleset is much less important than the dungeon master's and other players ROLE playing skills.

Also: Elders Scrolls is for retards.

If FIFA 2010 has character skills that matters more than player skill (not the case), progression of these characters and a way of customize them while every thing works based on a ruleset with dices rolling, yes, you can say it's a sport game with RPG elements. I know that you didn't said that RPG = "sttory and dialogues", but in no way they are the key elements.

Also, Planescape: Torment uses D&D 3.5 so don't blame the ruleset, they failed in combat design and implementation, just like Bloodlines. Both are RPGs because of the systems they use and how the implement it,  but of course, if it was not by the story or dialgues these games would not be so good as they are now but that would not make them less or more RPG, but a better or worse game.

Remember that you are saying something like this:

RPG BECAUSE HAS STORY AND CHOICES!
NOT RPG BECAUSE UH... PLAYS LIKE A RPG!
or
RPG BECAUSE THEY CREATE THEIR OWN STORY
NOT RPG BECAUSE THEY ARE PLAYING WITH A PRE-MADE CAMPAIGN

So you are saying that Assassin's Creed 2 is a RPG because you play the role of Enzio, chose if you want to be more stealthy or agressive and spend points into things? Or maybe all these Sierra adventures are too RPGs beacause you can chose what to say?
Remind me of this:

Speaking to NowGamer Melo said: "We have data that shows there are a lot
of people that enjoy playing RPGs although they won't necessarily call
them RPGs. They'll play Fallout, Assassin's Creed and even Call Of Duty,
which have these progression elements - you're putting points into
things - but they don't necessarily associate that as an RPG. So we
think that if we expand that out we'll attract a much bigger audience."

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/5141/bioware-we-want-call-of-dutys-audience

[Akulakhan]

v_ware wrote...

OMG 4CHAN BE EVIL.

Pssh.


What if...
Hear me out...
What if...

...
They really didn't like the game.

Blasphemy! Bioware is going uphill since Baldur's Gate 2. No way a new game can be worse than the last!

If it's not 4chan must be RPG Codex, these hater can't accept the evolution and complexity of the game industry since 2005.

Modifié par Akulakhan, 24 mars 2011 - 03:55 .

[v_ware]

Akulakhan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

OMG 4CHAN BE EVIL.

Pssh.


What if...
Hear me out...
What if...

...
They really didn't like the game.

Blasphemy! Bioware is going uphill since Baldur's Gate 2. No way a new game can be worse than the last!

If it's not 4chan must be RPG Codex, these hater can't accept the evolution and complexity that the game industry since 2005.

Are you from Codex? You so are!
That site is just hilarious. Not as bitter and hatefull as these forums quite surprisingly.

Modifié par v_ware, 24 mars 2011 - 03:04 .

[Akulakhan]

v_ware wrote...

Akulakhan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

OMG 4CHAN BE EVIL.

Pssh.


What if...
Hear me out...
What if...

...
They really didn't like the game.

Blasphemy! Bioware is going uphill since Baldur's Gate 2. No way a new game can be worse than the last!

If it's not 4chan must be RPG Codex, these hater can't accept the evolution and complexity that the game industry since 2005.

Are you from Codex? You so are!
That site is just hilarious. Not as bitter and hatefull as these forums quite surprisingly.

They are a bit xenophobic at start but if you not back down thanks to their hostility soon you are accepted into the hivemind and become one of them.

Modifié par Akulakhan, 24 mars 2011 - 03:24 .

[v_ware]

Akulakhan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

Akulakhan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

OMG 4CHAN BE EVIL.

Pssh.


What if...
Hear me out...
What if...

...
They really didn't like the game.

Blasphemy! Bioware is going uphill since Baldur's Gate 2. No way a new game can be worse than the last!

If it's not 4chan must be RPG Codex, these hater can't accept the evolution and complexity that the game industry since 2005.

Are you from Codex? You so are!
That site is just hilarious. Not as bitter and hatefull as these forums quite surprisingly.

They are a bit xenophobic at start but if you not back down thanks to their hostility soon you are accepted into the hivemind and become one of them.

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!

Modifié par v_ware, 24 mars 2011 - 03:43 .

[Akulakhan]

v_ware wrote...

Akulakhan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

Akulakhan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

OMG 4CHAN BE EVIL.

Pssh.


What if...
Hear me out...
What if...

...
They really didn't like the game.

Blasphemy! Bioware is going uphill since Baldur's Gate 2. No way a new game can be worse than the last!

If it's not 4chan must be RPG Codex, these hater can't accept the evolution and complexity that the game industry since 2005.

Are you from Codex? You so are!
That site is just hilarious. Not as bitter and hatefull as these forums quite surprisingly.

They are a bit xenophobic at start but if you not back down thanks to their hostility soon you are accepted into the hivemind and become one of them.

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!

drawn by Chris Avellone from Obsidian.

[v_ware]

Akulakhan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

Akulakhan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

Akulakhan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

OMG 4CHAN BE EVIL.

Pssh.


What if...
Hear me out...
What if...

...
They really didn't like the game.

Blasphemy! Bioware is going uphill since Baldur's Gate 2. No way a new game can be worse than the last!

If it's not 4chan must be RPG Codex, these hater can't accept the evolution and complexity that the game industry since 2005.

Are you from Codex? You so are!
That site is just hilarious. Not as bitter and hatefull as these forums quite surprisingly.

They are a bit xenophobic at start but if you not back down thanks to their hostility soon you are accepted into the hivemind and become one of them.

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!

drawn by Chris Avellone from Obsidian.

Haha, touché!

Modifié par v_ware, 24 mars 2011 - 04:04 .

[NotFrom4chan]

Akulakhan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

Akulakhan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

Akulakhan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

OMG 4CHAN BE EVIL.

Pssh.


What if...
Hear me out...
What if...

...
They really didn't like the game.

Blasphemy! Bioware is going uphill since Baldur's Gate 2. No way a new game can be worse than the last!

If it's not 4chan must be RPG Codex, these hater can't accept the evolution and complexity that the game industry since 2005.

Are you from Codex? You so are!
That site is just hilarious. Not as bitter and hatefull as these forums quite surprisingly.

They are a bit xenophobic at start but if you not back down thanks to their hostility soon you are accepted into the hivemind and become one of them.

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!

drawn by Chris Avellone from Obsidian.

Hey fancy that, Obsidian is full of douchebags with poor PR skills as well. Has Gaider drawn anything about his critics yet?

[Akulakhan]

NotFrom4chan wrote...

Akulakhan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

Akulakhan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

Akulakhan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

OMG 4CHAN BE EVIL.

Pssh.


What if...
Hear me out...
What if...

...
They really didn't like the game.

Blasphemy! Bioware is going uphill since Baldur's Gate 2. No way a new game can be worse than the last!

If it's not 4chan must be RPG Codex, these hater can't accept the evolution and complexity that the game industry since 2005.

Are you from Codex? You so are!
That site is just hilarious. Not as bitter and hatefull as these forums quite surprisingly.

They are a bit xenophobic at start but if you not back down thanks to their hostility soon you are accepted into the hivemind and become one of them.

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!

drawn by Chris Avellone from Obsidian.

Hey fancy that, Obsidian is full of douchebags with poor PR skills as well. Has Gaider drawn anything about his critics yet?

Agreed, but Mister Chris Avellone...