92 réponses à ce sujet

[PPR223]

Templars have the right idea, in Kirkwall atleast anyway, Mage's cause way too much trouble.

Modifié par PPR223, 23 mars 2011 - 05:29 .

[The Angry One]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

"When mages are free, they become Magisters."

So the free mages of the Dalish, the Chasind, and the nation of Rivain are actually Magisters?

Again, none of those are established societies. Nomads, barbarians and scattered villages respectively.

[LobselVith8]

The Angry One wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

"When mages are free, they become Magisters."

So the free mages of the Dalish, the Chasind, and the nation of Rivain are actually Magisters?

Again, none of those are established societies. Nomads, barbarians and scattered villages respectively.

The Dalish were established before their homeland was sacked by Chantry forces in the Exalted March of the Dales, and Rivain is a nation.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 23 mars 2011 - 05:31 .

[Redem0]

I sided with the mages mostly because i thought the current state of thing needed to be shaken and because I had some sympathy for them

[Reiella]

The Angry One wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

"When mages are free, they become Magisters."

So the free mages of the Dalish, the Chasind, and the nation of Rivain are actually Magisters?

Again, none of those are established societies. Nomads, barbarians and scattered villages respectively.

Scattered Villages sounds more like Ferelden .

[WidowMaker9394]

Every mage in Kirkwall deserved to die. They were all blood mages and abominations with very few exceptions, or at least that's what the game has led me to believe.

[Naitaka]

Mages are like strayed dogs, you either neuter them (Rite of Tranquility) or find someone suitable to leash them (Templar/Qunari).

[Wulfram]

In the situation we get in the game, I'd back the mages because Meredith is acting unreasonably.  She's killing innocents for the crime of someone only barely related to them.  Also because you've either got Hawke or Bethany as an example that there are mages who aren't evil.

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

"When mages are free, they become Magisters."

So the free mages of the Dalish, the Chasind, and the nation of Rivain are actually Magisters?

Well, the Dalish mages rule their people, and of the two clans we've met, one had a Keeper who used blood magic to unleash a centuries long curse that caused many deaths, while the other had a First who is also a blood mage and may end up killing her entire clan.

[The Angry One]

That too, Arlathan was also ruled by mages.

[Naitaka]

The Angry One wrote...

That too, Arlathan was also ruled by mages.

And that obviously ended well...

[LobselVith8]

Wulfram wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

"When mages are free, they become Magisters."

So the free mages of the Dalish, the Chasind, and the nation of Rivain are actually Magisters?

Well, the Dalish mages rule their people, and of the two clans we've met, one had a Keeper who used blood magic to unleash a centuries long curse that caused many deaths, while the other had a First who is also a blood mage and may end up killing her entire clan.

I don't contest that the Keepers we've seen so far are mages (although Lanaya addressed that the Keepers are typically those descended from the "nobility" that ruled the Dales), and even the Chasind are governed by their Shamans, but neither society tries to emulate the brutal magocracy of slavery and oppression that we find in Tevinter.

The Dales tried to emulate the fallen nation of Arlathan, after all, not the brutal slave-driven society of Tevinter. The Dalish believe that all elves once wielded magic, so it's possible Arlathan was once a nation of elven mages. Witch Hunt confirms that there were indeed elven mages. There's nothing to indicate the mages of the Dalish or the Chasind try to be Magisters, and we have no indication the seers of Rivain are making any such attempt, either. Grey Warden mages are technically free, as they can marry and raise their own children since they're no longer governed by the Chantry. Given these examples, I don't see why we should assume all free mages try to be Magisters.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 23 mars 2011 - 05:47 .

[The Angry One]

A famous Grey Warden mage being Avernus.. an amoral experimentor who accidentally got his own side routed by summoning unruly demons.

[LobselVith8]

The Angry One wrote...

A famous Grey Warden mage being Avernus.. an amoral experimentor who accidentally got his own side routed by summoning unruly demons.

Because he wanted to unlock the secrets of the taint to battle the darkspawn, not because he wanted to be a Magister.

[Apathy1989]

To be honest I cannot imagine siding with the templars. I had a run through where I tried to be anti-mage, but otherwise it has always seem natural to support the mages against their oppression.

Plus on my first run through, my sister was a mage and my gf was a mage. I would have killed anders on my first run through but the idiot was my dedicated healer.

My opinion is that mages need to be free, and templars need to have the job of hunting blood mages. The circle should only exist as a mandatory thing for children to be raised properly in magic.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

I can't stand Meredith, and orsino is a backstabbing hypocrite but atleast he bearable Meredith just makes me Wana hit something witch is good! Means she's a convincing charater.

[Nathan Redgrave]

The Angry One wrote...

"When mages are free, they become Magisters."

Biased source, sure... and yet the game constantly rubs this fact in our faces, from the blood mages to every single Tevinter character being a mustache twirling evil villian.

Blood mages =/= Magisters

Just sayin'. Magisters are mages who abuse their power to rule over others as tyrants. Blood mages are just blood mages--they CAN be magisters, but they can also be good-natured idiots or just scared, desperate victims grasping for the only weapon within reach in order to fight back. Jowan and Merril are both examples of blood mages that are about as far away from being magisters as it's possible to be.

The game constantly rubs that possibility in your face as a justification of the Templar mindset, but in practice what you see is more like "When mages are oppressed, they become Uldreds."

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 23 mars 2011 - 05:59 .

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Also me being an athiest I can't stand religious radicals that think they can do anything kill anyone if they say it's in the service of there god.

[Naitaka]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Also me being an athiest I can't stand religious radicals that think they can do anything kill anyone if they say it's in the service of there god.

Then you're not RPing correctly.

Modifié par Naitaka, 23 mars 2011 - 06:10 .

[Zan Mura]

I typed a lengthy response here, about how mages are forced into blood magic since their lives are threatened etc etc. But really, all it comes down to is how it played out in the game. The Templars decide they need to slaughter every single mage in the entire city. No-one who makes a decision like that, can be right. Even if I agreed with them and believed mages should be confined and watched over, even if I had worked for them up until that point, condoning murder on such a scale is completely unacceptable. Not unless you're dealing with something extreme on the level of all existense depending on making sure no abominations survive. That's not the situation however.

Anders, an apostate and an abomination, blows up the Chantry. And as a result you're supposed to kill ALL mages, almost all of which who had *nothing* to do with it at all? That's crazy talk.

[Svest]

Naitaka wrote...
Then you're not RPing correctly.

Why is that?  If he wants to RP Hawke as an athiest who hates religious radicals how is that incorrect? 

[cglasgow]

Zan Mura wrote...

The Templars decide they need to slaughter every single mage in the entire city. No-one who makes a decision like that, can be right.

Actually, during the Templar ending, Cullen will point out that even the Right of Annulment only should be used to kill blood mages and maleficar, not all mages.



Starting at about 2 minutes in.

Most relevant lines...

Cullen: "The Right has always been a last resort, when every mage involved was beyond salvation. The situation was far more dire in Ferelden's Circle, and yet many mages were saved. We could still do as much here."

Also:

Cullen: "But they haven't resorted to [blood magic], even to save their own lives. Perhaps if we watch them carefully-"

Meredith: "And if they hope to escape by playing innocent? Would you accept that responsibility, Cullen?"

Cullen: "Yes. I believe that's what being a templar is about."

And if you oppose Meredith, all of the templars there will agree with Cullen, not her.

Modifié par cglasgow, 23 mars 2011 - 06:17 .

[Miashi]

I sided with the mages because I was convinced their use of blood magic was related to being oppressed, but after what Orsino did, I deeply regretted not going with the templars.

[Naitaka]

Svest wrote...

Naitaka wrote...
Then you're not RPing correctly.

Why is that?  If he wants to RP Hawke as an athiest who hates religious radicals how is that incorrect? 

Then he would have said his Hawke was a atheist. He explicitly state that it's his personal view on the subject.

[Svest]

Naitaka wrote...

Then he would have said his Hawke was a atheist. He explicitly state that it's his personal view on the subject.

Ahh yes I'm sorry, I completely forgot that the first rule of roleplaying is that the character must never have anything in common with the player in any way and in fact must always act in the exact opposite way that the player would.  My bad...

[apantoliani]

I sided with the mages. While Anders may have lost his damn mind, part of what he did made sense, and he didn't run off like a punk afterwards, he was gonna take whatever I gave him.

Was kind of silly in retrospect, I think I killed all the mages that didn't run to tell the other circles. Orsino turned out to be the guy Quentin was talking with (completely missed it), but all that aside where the Kirkwall mages weren't exactly on the up and up, they were still crazy oppressed, in Kirkwall and a bit back in Ferelden.

Best line related: Can I just meet one non-crazy mage this week? Just one?