331 réponses à ce sujet

[RazorrX]

Bah my biggest problem with Anora - She is the daughter of the Traitor Loghain and his seed needs to die with him.



In addition to that, she KNOWS he killed her husband, and just walks away, allowing him to continue doing what he wanted.

[Kelston]

Taerda wrote...
There is a reason that the actual Queens in towers in English history were killed there - they are too dangerous to live ...

leaving that aside .. even though she is "thrown into the tower" .. if Allistair dies killing the Archdemon, then she becomes the ruler ... so, yes, it is a victory for her.

And how would you have effectively deposed her, o high and mighty creative writer.

So bring it. You charged BioWare's writers with failure to write. What would you have written in to effectively end her?

[Vormaerin]

_purifico_ wrote...

The problem with Anora as a ligitimate ruler is not that she doesn't have a wiener, but rather is that her blood is not pure enough.

BTW, scrap what I've said earlier in this thread - we DO know something about the fereldenian succession right - the fact that fblood bonds are really important for the royal succession tradition. The Arl of Redcliff said so on a number of occasions - and that's the primary reason why he doesn't want Anora on the throne - because she's no one.

The thing is that I don't like people scheming petty schemes, backstabbing and badmouthing those who tried to help them, and then acting like that was the right thing to do. That's why the slimeball and his daughter have to go.

Also, all the arguments about Alistair sucking as a king are TEH FAIL. 'Cause in one of the endings he rocked big time. Isn't that what everyone wants in a leader? Effective AND sweet? Might I also add that he's a great fanbase material?

That is not actually what the Arl said, unless he said it in one of the backgrounds I haven't done yet.  What he said was that it was a big deal to him, not that it was a matter of law.     There are always diehards for the old dynasty when it changes.  

Also, what petty schemes are you talking about?  I don't think overthrowing her father's regency is exactly petty...  She doesn't backstab anyone who deals straight with her.    And as for badmouthing Alistair... well, its not like she married him out of friendship.  Or that Alistair did a single thing to help her of his own volition.     What, do I have an obligation to pretend Sten is a sweet, likeable guy because he helped out?

Maybe Alister can turn out to be a good king, but if you can give even one faint hint of that possibility in his character prior to that particular ending I'll be impressed.   He's indecisive, emotional, frequently childish, of dubious intellect, and has zero training or tolerance for court affairs.    Do you ever meet even one person who thinks he would be a good king?   Arl Eamon doesn't even claim that, just that they need an opposition figure to present the the Landsmeet.

[ReubenLiew]

@Razorr - What were you expecting her to do then?
Stab her own dad? That's... a bit twisted don't you think?
Plus she's not a warrior, she's a politician, and she took a stab at her father in the only way she knew how; plot with her fathers enemy to remove him from power permanently.

@Vormaerin - Actually not even that, he wanted to put him forward for the sole reason that he's a dusty old sot and cannot imagine a monarchy that wasn't the bloodline of Calenhad.

Very much like nobility of old, loyalty to blood rather than to throne.

Modifié par ReubenLiew, 18 novembre 2009 - 01:52 .

[The Angry One]

Kelston wrote...

And how would you have effectively deposed her, o high and mighty creative writer.

So bring it. You charged BioWare's writers with failure to write. What would you have written in to effectively end her?

Poison?
Beheading?
All expenses paid holiday to the Deep Roads?

Is anyone really going to miss the daughter of a deposed tyrant, especially after she's been locked up?

[Kelston]

The Angry One wrote...

Poison?
Beheading?
All expenses paid holiday to the Deep Roads?

Is anyone really going to miss the daughter of a deposed tyrant, especially after she's been locked up?

Except you failed to register the part in the story where she maintained popularity with the people.

Which is a large reason why you can risk losing the Landsmeet if you choose not to tell her you're going to support her and she speaks out against you.

So you take a political figure that is popular with the masses and then behead her and then conveniently has the populace not give a crap that you just did that?

[ReubenLiew]

Well no.



Although the epilogue mentions nothing of her 'surviving' her time in the tower, no?

I think it's pretty clear what happens to her. If not Alistair it would be time. So she doesn't win in the end, at all. She disappears from history, forgotten by the next generation as she has no child.



Somehow, I doubt that's really all that a happy ever ending for her either.

[Flamin Jesus]

The Angry One wrote...

Kelston wrote...

And how would you have effectively deposed her, o high and mighty creative writer.

So bring it. You charged BioWare's writers with failure to write. What would you have written in to effectively end her?

Poison?
Beheading?
All expenses paid holiday to the Deep Roads?

Is anyone really going to miss the daughter of a deposed tyrant, especially after she's been locked up?

Many didn't consider him a tyrant, Arl Eamon also points out that she's very popular, and since she did play a role in deposing her father (Even openly defying him in the Landsmeet, if you make a deal with her) the majority of people can't even fault her for that.

[Vormaerin]

If she'd been a non scheming doofus like Alistair, we would have failed because half the Landsmeet votes with her and she wouldn't have intrigued with you in the first place.. She's ten times more popular than Alistair or Loghain is.



Anyway, she confronts her Father over the whole issue before you get involved and makes enough of a nuisance of herself that Howe locks her up. She's not standing around letting Loghain do whatever he wants.

[Taerda]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Actually a lot of them were put in there with the choice to join the cloister or stay there till they died.

It wasn't really killing per se.

Besides, this is totally out of the context of the discussion. Granted she would be a constant threat to the rule of Alistair, yes, but wasn't the argument that we should kill her based solely on the fact that some people think she's too much of a d-bag to rule properly, even though she has demonstrated that she is, in fact, the better ruler as far as lore goes. Let's not delve into how much of a threat she will be to Alistair because yes that is true but that is not relevant to the discussion anymore.

-edit- As a matter of fact I don't think any of us know what the argument was anymore.

I thought the thread was about who we'd most like to kill but can't and our reasons why.

The person I'd have killed ASAP but was not allowed to was Anora. The reason: she was a threat to Allistair's rule, in my game as it was evolving.

At the end of my play-through - she askes me if there is anything I want - if I was there as my Avatar, I'd have demanded either her life, or that she becomes a Grey Warden as is my right ...

On my current play-through as a Circle Elven Mage - I will force her to marry Allistair because that is what that Avatar would have done.

On my next one; if I have a third play-through, I do not know what will be my decisions, because I do not even know the origins I will be playing.

[The Angry One]

She's popular at the time of the Landsmeet, yes.

But how popular would she be afterwards, once her scheming treachery is exposed? Hell, go on a propaganda campaign. Reveal how she stood by while daddy commited atrocities. Imply she knew daddy was going to kill Cailan.

It doesn't have to be true, eh? Propaganda rarely is. Point being, smear her name good, then execute her.



Sure, some will support her. Some always do. But such are royal politics.

[Flamin Jesus]

"And she also kicks puppies!"



Really, you have one hell of a hatred going for that woman, Angry One, eh?



Guess she's your Isolde.

[ReubenLiew]

Ah right



Let's all just admit it, we want to kill her cause otherwise we can't get the Queen ending ending with Alistair without 'tying up loose ends'



I swear that man is like satan in pixel form. Women take a look at him and will kill for his sake.

[Taerda]

Kelston wrote...

Taerda wrote...
There is a reason that the actual Queens in towers in English history were killed there - they are too dangerous to live ...

leaving that aside .. even though she is "thrown into the tower" .. if Allistair dies killing the Archdemon, then she becomes the ruler ... so, yes, it is a victory for her.

And how would you have effectively deposed her, o high and mighty creative writer.

So bring it. You charged BioWare's writers with failure to write. What would you have written in to effectively end her?

Elizabeth's historical killing of Mary is a pretty good storyline to dupe ... or perhaps have the tower guards torture and maim her, like the Beef Eaters did to others .. let the crows eat her eyes  and all of that.  lol.

I never claimed they had failure to "write" - only a failure to cater to a minor (almost-non-existant?) sub-set of their gamer customer's desire to kill the one character I absolutely wanted to kill

[Kelston]

Taerda wrote...

At the end of my play-through - she askes me if there is anything I want - if I was there as my Avatar, I'd have demanded either her life, or that she becomes a Grey Warden as is my right ...

Murdering a figure that is popular with the masses would not be within Alistair's power.

And forcing him to give her to you under the Right of Conscription would have been political suicide for him given her popularity ESPECIALLY after Loghain had already argued with the people that you just wanted to put a puppet king into power for the Gray Wardens.

You can't touch her unless you had a means with which to cause her popularity to suddenly vanish. And given that you had nothing against her and she broke ranks to go against her father, this likely only served to bolster her popularity.

Anything you would have done would be cliched lazy writing. The very thing you accused BioWare of.

[The Angry One]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

"And she also kicks puppies!"

Really, you have one hell of a hatred going for that woman, Angry One, eh?

Guess she's your Isolde.

This topic *is* about who we hate and want to kill. So, yes.
She's two-faced, I despise two-faced people. Yeah everyone in royal politics has to be that way to an extent, but she takes it too far.

[Vormaerin]

Kelston wrote...



Which is a large reason why you can risk losing the Landsmeet if you choose not to tell her you're going to support her and she speaks out against you.

Actually, your success at the Landsmeet is pretty much 100% hers.   She gets you into Howe's castle and sets you on the trail of the Alienage slavery.   And she pulls a bunch of votes by speaking against her father.   If she stays loyal to Loghain in the first place and doesn't do any scheming, you'd get crushed at the Landsmeet.

[Taerda]

Kelston wrote.. Murdering a figure that is popular with the masses would not be within Alistair's power.

And forcing him to give her to you under the Right of Conscription would have been political suicide for him given her popularity ESPECIALLY after Loghain had already argued with the people that you just wanted to put a puppet king into power for the Gray Wardens.

You can't touch her unless you had a means with which to cause her popularity to suddenly vanish. And given that you had nothing against her and she broke ranks to go against her father, this likely only served to bolster her popularity.

Anything you would have done would be cliched lazy writing. The very thing you accused BioWare of.

Too bad, Allistair died in my play-through killing the Arch-demon ... she was not as popular at that point as the Savior of the
people - the mob outside would have been an easy tool to manipulate into killing her like Marie Antionette was killed by the French mob ... lots of ways to kill her... even if all the nobles are licking her perfumed slippers like you seem to think they are.

[Vormaerin]

Taerda wrote...

Elizabeth's historical killing of Mary is a pretty good storyline to dupe ... or perhaps have the tower guards torture and maim her, like the Beef Eaters did to others .. let the crows eat her eyes  and all of that.  lol.

But Mary was widely hated because she was a tyrant and a Catholic.     Anora's pretty much the exact opposite of all that...

[Kelston]

Taerda wrote...

Elizabeth's historical killing of Mary is a pretty good storyline to dupe ...

Except Elizabeth had evidence against Mary's desire to assassinate.

You don't have that against Anora.

[Flamin Jesus]

Vormaerin wrote...

Actually, your success at the Landsmeet is pretty much 100% hers.   She gets you into Howe's castle and sets you on the trail of the Alienage slavery.   And she pulls a bunch of votes by speaking against her father.   If she stays loyal to Loghain in the first place and doesn't do any scheming, you'd get crushed at the Landsmeet.

That's a good point, without Howe's dungeon, you'd stand completely empty handed in front of the Landsmeet, without her/her maid, you wouldn't even go there in the first place.

[The Angry One]

Hell, one could always spread the rumor that Alistair was killed not by the Archdemon, but by an agent of Anora's... following in her father's footsteps, so to speak.

Now watch Anora's popularity plummet straight to the deep roads as she's the killer of the hero of the century!

[RazorrX]

ReubenLiew wrote...

@Razorr - What were you expecting her to do then?
Stab her own dad? That's... a bit twisted don't you think?
Plus she's not a warrior, she's a politician, and she took a stab at her father in the only way she knew how; plot with her fathers enemy to remove him from power permanently.

@Vormaerin - Actually not even that, he wanted to put him forward for the sole reason that he's a dusty old sot and cannot imagine a monarchy that wasn't the bloodline of Calenhad.

Very much like nobility of old, loyalty to blood rather than to throne.

She is queen after all.  She *COULD* have called a Landsmeet, and ORDERED Loghain to step down and go fight the Blight.

She chose not to.

I saved her (AND Did not give her identity away) I spoke to her (tried to get her to marry Allistar and co rule) and she STILL screwed me over at Landsmeet. 

In a PERFECT ending she was sold to slavers to serve in a brothel for Plague infected lepers.

[Flamin Jesus]

The Angry One wrote...

This topic *is* about who we hate and want to kill. So, yes.
She's two-faced, I despise two-faced people. Yeah everyone in royal politics has to be that way to an extent, but she takes it too far.

Remind me never to get too much on your bad side, the energy you invest into plotting the decapitation of that person is downright frightening.

[Kelston]

Taerda wrote...

Too bad, Allistair died in my play-through killing the Arch-demon ... she was not as popular at that point as the Savior of the
people - the mob outside would have been an easy tool to manipulate into killing her like Marie Antionette was killed by the French mob ... lots of ways to kill her... even if all the nobles are licking her perfumed slippers like you seem to think they are.

Except by that time, Marie Antoinette was not popular with the people.

You seem to believe a crowd of people could be easily manipulated to partake in the cold-blooded murder of a figure they liked.

You seem more sociopath than someone thinking with logic or reason. That or your k social studies class covered medieval Europe for the first time and failed to give you any of these key details regarding the murder/execution of Queens.