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[The Angry One]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Well let's see, even common gossips know the Dalish, Dwarves and Circle are gathering together in an army.
Why exactly would the Queen of Ferelden not be aware of this?

There's still a difference between gathering an army against a common foe or gathering an army to benefit what could well be considered your personal agenda.

A difference that wouldn't really matter to an outside observer, Loghain himself becomes concerned about it after all.

[Malkut]

The Angry One wrote...

Well let's see, even common gossips know the Dalish, Dwarves and Circle are gathering together in an army.
Why exactly would the Queen of Ferelden not be aware of this?

She's been locked in a room by her father for the past whoever knows how long?

[The Angry One]

Malkut wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Well let's see, even common gossips know the Dalish, Dwarves and Circle are gathering together in an army.
Why exactly would the Queen of Ferelden not be aware of this?

She's been locked in a room by her father for the past whoever knows how long?

And yet is present for Howe's reports.

[schminck]

I'm surprised I haven't seen mentioned one of the main reasons most people might want to kill Anora... one might argue that each time she 'betrays' you it's because you betrayed her first, or are trying to usurp her as a queen with Ali, sure... but she did something to put all this motion that was a bold faced lie.

When she sent her maid to Arl Eamon to enlist his aid and yours with the story that she would be killed... this was false.  Loghain would never have killed her, ever.  You can find this out straight from Loghain's mouth too if you ever end up recruiting him.  Howe wouldn't have killed his Commander's daughter either, no chance.  He was a snake, but he wasn't stupid.

She basically orchestrated the entire "break out" just so she could get back into COMPLETE power.  Smart?  Yeah sure... but she knew very well she was never in any real danger.   So the entire relationship between you and her begins with her using you as a pawn.

Just for that, I wanted her head chopped off.

Modifié par schminck, 18 novembre 2009 - 01:58 .

[CChocobo]

The Angry One wrote...

Malkut wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Well let's see, even common gossips know the Dalish, Dwarves and Circle are gathering together in an army.
Why exactly would the Queen of Ferelden not be aware of this?

She's been locked in a room by her father for the past whoever knows how long?

And yet is present for Howe's reports.

Why so much hatred for Anora? I realized she can be power hungry but i twisted it to get my goals across.
In the end i became King, so who's in charge? Me, she's having my children! All who will bear the name Cousland. Sooo.. who's got the real power?
 In effect wiping out any claim her family had to the throne, she's only going to be tied to it because of me being the new King. And once i find my witch, i'll have Anora banished to The Deep Roads, and Morrigan can reside as my Queen.. mhm.  Of course our kid will be noble blood afterall and all powerful God... Ferelden will be minee muahahah..
Ahem, I mean.. Yes, yes i'd like to have a quiet life of ruling alongside Anora and stay in the background while she runs the show.. 

[Mystranna Kelteel]

schminck wrote...

I'm surprised I haven't seen mentioned one of the main reasons most people might want to kill Anora... one might argue that each time she 'betrays' you it's because you betrayed her first, or are trying to usurp her as a queen with Ali, sure... but she did something to put all this motion that was a bold faced lie.

When she sent her maid to Arl Eamon to enlist his aid and yours with the story that she would be killed... this was false.  Loghain would never have killed her, ever.  You can find this out straight from Loghain's mouth too if you ever end up recruiting him.  Howe wouldn't have killed his Commander's daughter either, no chance.  He was a snake, but he wasn't stupid.

She basically orchestrated the entire "break out" just so she could get back into COMPLETE power.  Smart?  Yeah sure... but she knew very well she was never in any real danger.   So the entire relationship between you and her begins with her using you as a pawn.

Just for that, I wanted her head chopped off.

I disagree with your reasoning. Howe was stupid enough to forcibly capture his Commander's daughter, and Loghain has always turned a blind eye to Howe's actions. You can't rule out Howe killing her, and Loghain not wanting to kill her is unknown to Anora. She doesn't trust her father's actions lately and there is plenty of suspicion for her to be justified. And of course she wants to be freed so she can try to make things right by her power. She's a very influential woman, why wouldn't she want to use her power?

[Maria Caliban]

You know TAO, you're ignoring what the writers have said in this very thread, you're ignoring what's said in the game, and you're ignoring common sense.

So okay, you're right. Despite all evidence to the contrary, your character is Alexander the Great leading his armies and Queen Anora is a fool to oppose your obvious military might. In fact, because of the Sacred Ashes quest, a high-dragon or Andreste herself has decided to become your slave and will tear Denerim stone from stone unless Anora capitulates to your will.

With that might behind you, it’s amazing that she doesn’t see the light of day. I wonder why you can’t just order your army to storm the city, take Loghian and Anora hostage, and demand the banns serve at your whim.

Total FUBAR on the writers’ part.

[Flamin Jesus]

The Angry One wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Irving and Graegoir however are the least capable of defying the Chantries wishes and going to war, especially a civil war.

This assumes that the Chantry would oppose a war in the first place.
Yes they'd go with the will of the Landsmeet.. but I'm pretty sure the will of the Landsmeet does not involve illegally detaining representatives because they might not agree with you like, you know, Anora basically helps do.

Considering all Loghain gets for imprisoning and torturing one of their templars, interfering with their affairs, enlisting apostates and a number of other things the Chantry doesn't particularly like is a stern talking to of 5 seconds, I think we can say they wouldn't lift a finger if you'd ask them to seize the throne from the actual, legitimate and popular queen.

And Elves or Werewolves? The options I know are either killing the beloved leader of the Elves (Or at least convincing him to give up his life) or slaughtering all Elves and thereby condemning the Werewolves to spend a miserable existance under the curse. Both don't strike me as particularly love-inducing acts of friendship. Whichever group you end up with, your involvement has cost them.

It's either that or death/werewolf curse for the elves. So yeah, I'd think they'd get over Zathrian.
As for the werewolves, you may not break the curse but they won't blame you for it, instead you side with Swiftrunner and enabled his desire for revenge.
And keep in mind, the werewolves are bound by no treaties, yet follow you anyway.

Granted, the Werewolves are bound by no treaties, and that might have actually been useful BEFORE you went into their lair and slaughtered 99% of their pack, but afterwards they're just a few survivors with a serious flea-problem. Elves, maybe they'd get over Zathrian (Remember that the Elves don't know the whole story, or only know parts of it from you), maybe they wouldn't, another question is wether a single tribe of elves that can barely win a fight over a cow against some backwater human settlement stands any chance of storming Denerim and forcing the surrender of a massively superior foe.

Don't forget that time is also running out, if you wage a civil war over your hatred of that one woman (Which would be understandable if she were Isolde...), you exhaust the two most important/powerful armies in the land, waste time, and generally are at each other's throats as opposed to those of the real enemy, which is reason alone for her to realize you'd never risk anything happening to your precious armies before they get to the Darkspawn-killing part.

Modifié par Flamin Jesus, 18 novembre 2009 - 02:07 .

[Walina]

I dislike Anora because she still want to be a queen, she has not rights to claim the throne. In real life she will flee or been killed. Why DAO didn't allow us to do that ? I know it's an excuse for DAO 2 ~_~

Modifié par Walina, 18 novembre 2009 - 02:07 .

[Kalfear]

I dont get this rating out bussiness either regarding anora at Howes?



The commander asks what your doing there and you answer honestly and truthfully, your there to set free Anora who Howe has locked up!



How is this ratting her out? You have told the truth and if she also answers with the truth, there is no problem. But instead she lies and says you trying to kidnap her!

I guess my morales might be more black and white, right and wrong, but I just dont see how telling the commander of the guard why you are there and the reason for your actions as ratting out Anora!



I also dont see how not supportering her bid for power is betraying her? She came to you (for a 2nd time) asking for help and you let her stay the Arls compound for her safety! Loghain asks you what you are doing with the Queen and you answer protecting her from him, THE TRUTH. So how is that betraying her? Then she comes out and says you been holding her prisoner (blatent lie yet again).



Sorry but I dont buy this ratting out and betraying her first excuse what so ever. All my character ever did was try to protect her and she lied and cheated at every turn as my reward.



Allistar should chop her head off is what he should do!

[The Angry One]

Ignoring what? If some of the writers wish to take a rigid view on their plot, that isn't my problem.



You on the other hand chose to ignore the character's perspectives, what seems to be rather than what is, and quite honestly some of you get so hung up on the idea of the treaties you ignore the fact that there is one entire faction that can follow you WITHOUT ANY TREATIES.

[The Angry One]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Don't forget that time is also running out, if you wage a civil war over your hatred of that one woman (Which would be understandable if she were Isolde...), you exhaust the two most important/powerful armies in the land, waste time, and generally are at each other's throats as opposed to those of the real enemy, which is reason alone for her to realize you'd never risk anything happening to your precious armies before they get to the Darkspawn-killing part.

Yes, time is running out.
Which is why it's generally a bad idea to play stupid games with the one person who's brought these armies together to defeat the Blight.

[Flamin Jesus]

The Angry One wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Well let's see, even common gossips know the Dalish, Dwarves and Circle are gathering together in an army.
Why exactly would the Queen of Ferelden not be aware of this?

There's still a difference between gathering an army against a common foe or gathering an army to benefit what could well be considered your personal agenda.

A difference that wouldn't really matter to an outside observer, Loghain himself becomes concerned about it after all.

I'm not talking about the outside observer, though. What I mean is that the armies you've gathered have been told to fight against the Darkspawn, it might strike them as a little odd an counter-productive if their first command was something along the lines "And now lay siege to the capital!"

[schminck]

I disagree with your reasoning. Howe was stupid enough to forcibly capture his Commander's daughter, and Loghain has always turned a blind eye to Howe's actions. You can't rule out Howe killing her, and Loghain not wanting to kill her is unknown to Anora. She doesn't trust her father's actions lately and there is plenty of suspicion for her to be justified. And of course she wants to be freed so she can try to make things right by her power. She's a very influential woman, why wouldn't she want to use her power?

If you give her the benefit of the doubt, sure.  But when you talk to Loghain in your camp after you recruit him, he certainly paints her in a very... mmmm... DIFFERENT light.

I'm not saying she isn't the best choice for ruler, either.  I'm just saying she's a manipulator, and because of how she attempted to manipulate MY character, I of course wanted to kill her... which is what this thread is all about.

Modifié par schminck, 18 novembre 2009 - 02:11 .

[The Angry One]

Flamin Jesus wrote...
]
I'm not talking about the outside observer, though. What I mean is that the armies you've gathered have been told to fight against the Darkspawn, it might strike them as a little odd an counter-productive if their first command was something along the lines "And now lay siege to the capital!"

It might. And that probably wouldn't even happen.
The point is, you've just gone and pissed off several large and powerful groups, and doomed them to the Blight all because of your insipid lust for the throne.
At the very least you've made your seat of power about as secure as a chocolate teapoit.

And then the Archdemon comes knocking at the door.

[David Gaider]

Maria Caliban wrote...
You know TAO, you're ignoring what the writers have said in this very thread, you're ignoring what's said in the game, and you're ignoring common sense.

So okay, you're right. Despite all evidence to the contrary, your character is Alexander the Great leading his armies and Queen Anora is a fool to oppose your obvious military might. In fact, because of the Sacred Ashes quest, a high-dragon or Andreste herself has decided to become your slave and will tear Denerim stone from stone unless Anora capitulates to your will.

With that might behind you, it’s amazing that she doesn’t see the light of day. I wonder why you can’t just order your army to storm the city, take Loghian and Anora hostage, and demand the banns serve at your whim.

Total FUBAR on the writers’ part.

I know right? We are just too rigid, us writers. Clearly we missed the angle where everyone would form up into a conquering army out of sheer gratitude. Better patch that in, stat!

[Flamin Jesus]

The Angry One wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Don't forget that time is also running out, if you wage a civil war over your hatred of that one woman (Which would be understandable if she were Isolde...), you exhaust the two most important/powerful armies in the land, waste time, and generally are at each other's throats as opposed to those of the real enemy, which is reason alone for her to realize you'd never risk anything happening to your precious armies before they get to the Darkspawn-killing part.

Yes, time is running out.
Which is why it's generally a bad idea to play stupid games with the one person who's brought these armies together to defeat the Blight.

I agree, and I have no love for her myself (Though I also believe she's the better choice as a ruler, maybe not quite as good alone as with a caring fool by her side, but in an either/or situation the superior choice), but she knows you won't just turn around and tell Ferelden to screw itself, and that you won't risk a civil war (Which is the reason you called the Landsmeet in the first place).
So really, what can you do? You're a bit between a rock and a hard place, it's actually the ideal time for her to gain a political victory against an enemy who simply has no non-political ressources (None that aren't tied down, at least) to fight her.

[The Angry One]

If not out of sheer gratitude, then why do the werewolves join?

Complimentary flea combs?

[The Angry One]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

So really, what can you do? You're a bit between a rock and a hard place, it's actually the ideal time for her to gain a political victory against an enemy who simply has no non-political ressources (None that aren't tied down, at least) to fight her.

But then she doesn't know if your military resources are tied down.
She can't just assume that. That's idiotic. Hell for all she knows, you told your forces she's a brood mother in the making.

[Flamin Jesus]

The Angry One wrote...

The point is, you've just gone and pissed off several large and powerful groups, and doomed them to the Blight all because of your insipid lust for the throne.

The very same could be said about the person who lusts for the throne so much that they abuse those armies in a bid for power instead of backing down and focussing on the real threat.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

schminck wrote...

If you give her the benefit of the doubt, sure.  But when you talk to Loghain in your camp after you recruit him, he certainly paints her in a very... mmmm... DIFFERENT light.

I'm not saying she isn't the best choice for ruler, either.  I'm just saying she's a manipulator, and because of how she attempted to manipulate MY character, I of course wanted to kill her... which is what this thread is all about.

What Loghain says at camp really has no bearings on what Anora feels herself. Yeah, Loghain would enver betray his daughter. Anora doesn't know that, and for all she knows Howe is directly working for Loghead himself and the kidnapping was her father's order.

I'm not saying Anora isn't a manipulator. I'm saying not everything she did and said was 100% a lie and manipulation because she wanted to rule and nothing else. I think wanting to kill her for anything she did in the game (that I saw) is completely unreasonable. If you're mad at her on a personal level, I can understand that, but trying to say or imply that killing her is justified because of her actions seems incredibly misguided.

[David Gaider]

The Angry One wrote...
If not out of sheer gratitude, then why do the werewolves join?
Complimentary flea combs?

Yes, they are indeed indebted to you.

And it is also in their best interest to deal with the Blight that is on their doorstep.

But, no, I'm sure that's just an excuse for us to drag you along on "our" plot, right?

[The Angry One]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The point is, you've just gone and pissed off several large and powerful groups, and doomed them to the Blight all because of your insipid lust for the throne.

The very same could be said about the person who lusts for the throne so much that they abuse those armies in a bid for power instead of backing down and focussing on the real threat.

Largely irrelevant since I'm talking about Anora's actions across any campaign and not just one where you seek the throne.
She betrays you either way, for the terrible crimes of not speaking to her or telling the truth!
This has nothing to do with what the player wants, in essence it's Anora barging in the way of the fight against the Blight because her throne is just so damn precious to her.

[Flamin Jesus]

The Angry One wrote...

Hell for all she knows, you told your forces she's a brood mother in the making.

I think she believes that your allies might get suspicious if you told them the queen of Ferelden, surrounded by hundreds of servants (Or captors, as it were), in the Capital, was secretly being transformed into a sick abomination by the Hurlock-Maid.

[The Angry One]

David Gaider wrote...

Yes, they are indeed indebted to you.

And it is also in their best interest to deal with the Blight that is on their doorstep.

But, no, I'm sure that's just an excuse for us to drag you along on "our" plot, right?

I'm not sure where I said the plot was dragging me along anywhere, since my point in all this is Anora is messing with things she doesn't understand because she's a power hungry wench and should swing from the highest yardarm in the Denerim docks.
Point is they're not going to deal with the Blight without you now, are they? Anora's petty betrayals threaten all of them, and that in the end is why they could *potentially* oppose her.