331 réponses à ce sujet

[Vormaerin]

_purifico_ wrote...

In fact, no, she's not. Well she WAS, but that ended  happily just around the time her daddy betrayed the legitimate king of Ferelden. She is not of royal blood and thus has no right for the throne for that matter.

Do you have some evidence for this?  In medieval Europe, widowed Queens generally didn't rule... but more of them did than bastard by blows, I suspect.   And Ferelden's gender equality is far in advance of anything in the equivalent period of the real world.

[Flamin Jesus]

Elessie wrote...

So I pretended her possibly being unable to get pregnant was a good reason to put Alistair on the throne instead.  =P

The little soldiers can't do their job if they freeze to death on their way to the egg.

Oh mother, how you'd hate me now.

Modifié par Flamin Jesus, 18 novembre 2009 - 10:16 .

[Maria Caliban]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Elessie wrote...

So I pretended her possibly being unable to get pregnant was a good reason to put Alistair on the throne instead.  =P

The little soldiers can't do their job if they freeze to death on their way to the egg.

Oh mother, how you'd hate me now.

There's comedic gold to be found in Alistiar and Anora's honeymoon night. Especially if the female PC never showed him how to lick a lampost in winter.

[Boeresmurf]

ppl who deserved to die

zevran, hate the accent

kiddish dalish wanna-be hunter, to chicken to stand up and show his love.

dalish merchent, because he didnt wanted to trade with me anymore

allistair, because he turns out to be the biggest whiner in the world,



anora rocks, she an make tough decisions which will provide well for the whole nation......

ow and casteless dwarf origin, my mother.... drunk insulting old witch.



yes my warrior wasnt a reall people person.. i enjoyed the company from sten/shale/morrigan most

[_purifico_]

Sheryl Chee wrote...


Anora wants what's best for Ferelden,

Really? I mean REALLY??? Then you did a crappy job portraying it in-game. 'Cause to me she seems nothing but a power-hungry ****. Sure, that doesn't mean she will be a bad ruler or anything, but knowing how to run a country doesn't make you a nice and lovable person (look at Behlen of Orzammar). Besides, erecting a monumets for a regicide - yeah, that's totaly cool. On the other hand - if the nobles of Ferelden allow such outrage, then they are just a bunch of brainless maggots and got what they deserved.

Kudos to the man who comes with a mod allowing to butcher the missy.

[AtreiyaN7]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Probably that despicable guy in Arl Howe's dungeon (can't remember his name atm - son of the dead Arl).

You can... I did.

Ah yes, Vaughan as that other guy said. I ultimately decided that leaving that scumbag to rot in the dungeon with no one the wiser about it was a more suitable punishment than outright killing at the time the choice came up. I like the idea that he's suffering more this way...but I still kind of do want to kill him - maybe next time around I'll do it (he does deserve it after all).

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 18 novembre 2009 - 10:24 .

[Flamin Jesus]

Maria Caliban wrote...

There's comedic gold to be found in Alistiar and Anora's honeymoon night. Especially if the female PC never showed him how to lick a lampost in winter.

"What do you mean you don't know where it goes?! No, not there you moron! No, I don't have a pee-pee! No I'm not like all your trainers when you were a templar, I'm a girl!"

I can just imagine it, frightened newb and ice queen on their quest for the grand clitoris. O_o

[_purifico_]

Vormaerin wrote...

Do you have some evidence for this?  In medieval Europe, widowed Queens generally didn't rule... but more of them did than bastard by blows, I suspect.   And Ferelden's gender equality is far in advance of anything in the equivalent period of the real world.

You are correct - we have no information on Ferelden's succission right (or do we?...). That is why i'm basing my arguments on the RL's traditions (and until the Bioware dudes give us some real info on the matter that's the best we can do). And that is - the throne and the crown goes to the oldest male of ROYAL blood - that being a son of the latter king, a brother, an uncle - doesn't really matter. Sure there were lots and lots of queens in Middle Ages. But they were either regents for the little kings not old enought to rule themselves, or AT LEAST were royalties by blood, not by  marriage. You know, as they say - blood is thicker than water =)

[Maria Caliban]

_purifico_ wrote...

You are correct - we have no information on Ferelden's succission right (or do we?...). That is why i'm basing my arguments on the RL's traditions (and until the Bioware dudes give us some real info on the matter that's the best we can do). And that is - the throne and the crown goes to the oldest male of ROYAL blood - that being a son of the latter king, a brother, an uncle - doesn't really matter. Sure there were lots and lots of queens in Middle Ages. But they were either regents for the little kings not old enought to rule themselves, or AT LEAST were royalties by blood, not by  marriage. You know, as they say - blood is thicker than water =)

You presumably played the human noble origin as a female. Did you not notice there was talk of giving Highever to you as opposed to your elder brother?

The strongest organization in the ‘world’ is the Chantry, which is run by women. The greatest empire is ruled by a woman. Heck, when you create a character it explicitly says ‘Men and women in Ferelden are generally regarded as equals. Both are represented in organizations, military forces, and noble house.’

[JemmaProphet]

Right, but Anora's not royal by blood. Eamon makes a big deal about the unbroken chain of succession from Ferelden's founding all the way down to Cailan, and how important it was to Fereldan as a nation that their heritage wasn't lost during the Orlesian empire.



That said, in my first play through, I let Anora rule. Because Alistair didn't want it, would've been terrible at it without significant coaching, and frankly Grey Wardens meddling in politics is just a bad idea. It needed doing to get things settled so we could go fight the Blight, but putting one on the throne is just an awful idea. (And probably why Alistair was sent off to the Chantry first, and then to the Wardens - to keep him from siring potential heirs and to make him an inviable candidate for the throne as possible without actually killing him).



At least that's what I would've done, were I a politico in charge of that mess. You keep him alive -just in case- you need someone to sire a blood heir, but you keep him out of the way and controlled as much as possible. If Anora'd given Cailan an heir, fantastic, Alistair the Spare is now a Grey Warden and can go die fighting Darkspawn in 20 years.



I wanted to kill Hespith, too. A lot. I don't have many other complaints - pretty much anyone else who annoyed me I either had the option to kill and didn't, or I got to axe them. Thoroughly.



Love the game.

[_purifico_]

Maria Caliban wrote...


The strongest organization in the ‘world’ is the Chantry, which is run by women. The greatest empire is ruled by a woman. Heck, when you create a character it explicitly says ‘Men and women in Ferelden are generally regarded as equals. Both are represented in organizations, military forces, and noble house.’

Hurray for femenism! That's not my point however.
The problem with Anora as a ligitimate ruler is not that she doesn't have a wiener, but rather is that her blood is not pure enough.
BTW, scrap what I've said earlier in this thread - we DO know something about the fereldenian succession right - the fact that fblood bonds are really important for the royal succession tradition. The Arl of Redcliff said so on a number of occasions - and that's the primary reason why he doesn't want Anora on the throne - because she's no one.

Anyways, I couldn't bother less about who gets to rule Ferelden - royal blood, or not; they could put a mabari warhound on a throne for all I care (a basic campfire, anyone?). The thing is that I don't like people scheming petty schemes, backstabbing and badmouthing those who tried to help them, and then acting like that was the right thing to do. That's why the slimeball and his daughter have to go.

Also, all the arguments about Alistair sucking as a king are TEH FAIL. 'Cause in one of the endings he rocked big time. Isn't that what everyone wants in a leader? Effective AND sweet? Might I also add that he's a great fanbase material?

[ReubenLiew]

But... you just described every politician and current world leader of every country currently and possibly back towards the first dawn of centralized government.



They still lead us, right?



Plus he didn't rock big time. He was basically the king that did nothing but visit villages and have them cheer on him. And give the elves a better time since he appointed the elder from the alienage to be a councilor. He didn't change Fereldan at all.



Anora made Fereldan into a powerhouse. So no, Anora is simply the better choice, but by the sheer amount of loathing you seem to harbor for her I'm thinking the only reason you hate her is for personal reasons, not at all basing anything on her actual ability to rule but that she betrayed you so you must now have her punished for that.

Thats almost as petty as she is.

[Taerda]

Sheryl Chee wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
I'm not sure how not talking to her is reasonable justification outside the realm of paranoid wearers of tin-foil hats..

She's like "Hi, Grey Warden. Please come talk to me, we need to discuss my dad's complete ass-hattery." She needs to know she can trust you. If she doesn't know she can trust you with Ferelden, she's not going to be on your side.

All the more reason to kill her - she would always be a threat to Allistair -unless dead.

[ReubenLiew]

And thus we reach the crux of the problem



Ahh Alistair, how many women have you made murderers for your vengeance XD I think the creator should be so proud, how many girls out there would easily choose to kill a defenceless man to please their virtual boyfriend, heh XD Not to mention kick out the current queen so they can seize the throne with you, you sly dog you.

[mousestalker]

_purifico_ wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...


The strongest organization in the ‘world’ is the Chantry, which is run by women. The greatest empire is ruled by a woman. Heck, when you create a character it explicitly says ‘Men and women in Ferelden are generally regarded as equals. Both are represented in organizations, military forces, and noble house.’

Hurray for femenism! That's not my point however.
The problem with Anora as a ligitimate ruler is not that she doesn't have a wiener, but rather is that her blood is not pure enough.
BTW, scrap what I've said earlier in this thread - we DO know something about the fereldenian succession right - the fact that fblood bonds are really important for the royal succession tradition. The Arl of Redcliff said so on a number of occasions - and that's the primary reason why he doesn't want Anora on the throne - because she's no one.

Anyways, I couldn't bother less about who gets to rule Ferelden - royal blood, or not; they could put a mabari warhound on a throne for all I care (a basic campfire, anyone?). The thing is that I don't like people scheming petty schemes, backstabbing and badmouthing those who tried to help them, and then acting like that was the right thing to do. That's why the slimeball and his daughter have to go.

Also, all the arguments about Alistair sucking as a king are TEH FAIL. 'Cause in one of the endings he rocked big time. Isn't that what everyone wants in a leader? Effective AND sweet? Might I also add that he's a great fanbase material?

Dog would totally rock as King of Ferelden.

He's at least as smart as your average tax collector.

[Kelston]

Anora, the Reverend Mother for Lothering, the Knight Lt Templar guy outside Redcliffe's windmill - In fact every Templar except for the blind one in Denerim, your father in the human noble origin (IF HE SAYS PUP ONE MORE FRIGGIN TIME), Ser Jory, Cailan, and the elven alienage npc that says good riddance to you

[Flamin Jesus]

ReubenLiew wrote...

And thus we reach the crux of the problem

Ahh Alistair, how many women have you made murderers for your vengeance XD I think the creator should be so proud, how many girls out there would easily choose to kill a defenceless man to please their virtual boyfriend, heh XD Not to mention kick out the current queen so they can seize the throne with you, you sly dog you.

Hell hath no fury...

[Flamin Jesus]

Kelston wrote...

Anora, the Reverend Mother for Lothering, the Knight Lt Templar guy outside Redcliffe's windmill - In fact every Templar except for the blind one in Denerim, your father in the human noble origin (IF HE SAYS PUP ONE MORE FRIGGIN TIME), Ser Jory, Cailan, and the elven alienage npc that says good riddance to you

You mean all the templars except most of those who actually have any dialogue? 

[Taerda]

David Gaider wrote...
I know right? We are just too rigid, us writers. Clearly we missed the angle where everyone would form up into a conquering army out of sheer gratitude. Better patch that in, stat!

Naw, you just force us to accept a character's inevitable success  ... meaning Anora will succeed no matter the player's actions. At that point you should not even have given the player the illusion of choice, but spent the time and effort at better story development so at least those who do not like her can appreciate the non-choice of having Anora win, no matter what.

[Flamin Jesus]

Taerda wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
I know right? We are just too rigid, us writers. Clearly we missed the angle where everyone would form up into a conquering army out of sheer gratitude. Better patch that in, stat!

Naw, you just force us to accept a character's inevitable success  ... meaning Anora will succeed no matter the player's actions. At that point you should not even have given the player the illusion of choice, but spent the time and effort at better story development so at least those who do not like her can appreciate the non-choice of having Anora win, no matter what.

What? O_o

You can make Alistair King and have her thrown into a tower! With which stretch of the imagination can you count that as a victory for her?

[Taerda]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...


What Loghain says at camp really has no bearings on what Anora feels herself. Yeah, Loghain would enver betray his daughter. Anora doesn't know that, and for all she knows Howe is directly working for Loghead himself and the kidnapping was her father's order.

I'm not saying Anora isn't a manipulator. I'm saying not everything she did and said was 100% a lie and manipulation because she wanted to rule and nothing else. I think wanting to kill her for anything she did in the game (that I saw) is completely unreasonable. If you're mad at her on a personal level, I can understand that, but trying to say or imply that killing her is justified because of her actions seems incredibly misguided.

The simple fact that she is a danger to Allistair's claim to rule is justification to kill her; it is the same reason Mary, Queen of the Scots was killed - and is used time after time over a thousand years of actual history to kill people with claims to thrones.

There is no logical excuse for allowing her to live, unless you force her to marry Allistair, and once she produces a babe, she should be killed.

[ReubenLiew]

But Alistair can win, so I don't quite see the argument?

The choice is that you either put up a better monarch or a more likable one. Alistair CAN survive and become king. Alistair doesn't do too badly as a king, but storywise Anora would've made the better monarch.

I don't quite see this kind of vehemance on the subject of putting Harrowmont on the throne only to have him fail at it compared to Bhelen... I personally blame Alistair. The man has that evil intelligence behind him, I just know it.

-edit- Christ man/woman, there's always a logical reason to let someone survive. What there ISN'T a logical reason for is to kill someone based solely on hatred.

... Damn it, Godwin...

Modifié par ReubenLiew, 18 novembre 2009 - 01:42 .

[Taerda]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

What? O_o

You can make Alistair King and have her thrown into a tower! With which stretch of the imagination can you count that as a victory for her?

There is a reason that the actual Queens in towers in English history were killed there - they are too dangerous to live ...

leaving that aside .. even though she is "thrown into the tower" .. if Allistair dies killing the Archdemon, then she becomes the ruler ... so, yes, it is a victory for her.

[Flamin Jesus]

Taerda wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

What? O_o

You can make Alistair King and have her thrown into a tower! With which stretch of the imagination can you count that as a victory for her?

There is a reason that the actual Queens in towers in English history were killed there - they are too dangerous to live ...

leaving that aside .. even though she is "thrown into the tower" .. if Allistair dies killing the Archdemon, then she becomes the ruler ... so, yes, it is a victory for her.

That's why you can die instead or just let Morrigan have her baby. There are a number of outcomes, and you can completely bone Anora in half of them if you want to.

[ReubenLiew]

Actually a lot of them were put in there with the choice to join the cloister or stay there till they died.

It wasn't really killing per se.

Besides, this is totally out of the context of the discussion. Granted she would be a constant threat to the rule of Alistair, yes, but wasn't the argument that we should kill her based solely on the fact that some people think she's too much of a d-bag to rule properly, even though she has demonstrated that she is, in fact, the better ruler as far as lore goes. Let's not delve into how much of a threat she will be to Alistair because yes that is true but that is not relevant to the discussion anymore.

-edit- As a matter of fact I don't think any of us know what the argument was anymore.

Modifié par ReubenLiew, 18 novembre 2009 - 01:48 .