35 réponses à ce sujet

[hudweiser]

So I'm starting a second playthrough as a Mage and I was wondering from our more magically inclined members if this build would work well?

biowarefans.com/dragon-age-2-talent-builder/#mEz1c0Ic1k0k1aV0a1R0Y1w0M1QGh0V1P0o1YIrL0A1j0NL1p

My goal was to pretty much build up a supporter who could also dish out some damage, set up the battlefield for CCC and to also exploit them.  I'll probably drag along Fenris/Aveline, Varric, and most likey Merill

I've heard good things about the Primal talent tree but I'm not sure if it would work with my playstyle since I'm more inclined towards AOE spells.

Any feedback is appreciated.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

What difficulty do you play?

[hudweiser]

I don't think I'll feel comfortable enough to play on Nightmare with a mage yet, so I'll be playing on Hard

[PoisonDagger]

Yeah i tried playing on nightmare like everyone suggested when i said the game was to easy lol...well yeah... it was beyond me but for anyone who says nightmare is easy then i guess you are really pro. I found the primal to be interesting but i seems like a build everyone would pick i guess cause lighting spells are overrated..

[hudweiser]

Primal does look like a pretty solid tree but when I play games like this I build a character in my mind, I guess a bit of roleplaying and the Primal tree just doesn't fit the Hawke I have envisioned.

[Atmosfear3]

You don't need Greater Heal. If you have even a few pieces of +healing gear, you'll more than make up for not having that upgrade. Besides, you don't ever need an 80%+ heal, especially if you just buy a couple Elfroot potions. Likewise, you don't need Unity or Revive (once you've gotten to Act 2 for revive that is).

Spirit Bolt is a mediocre spell and definitely not worth it unless you have a companion that can put up disorient constantly, which is unlikely since there are only 2 sources of Disorient, one of which is buggy and the other being on a long cooldown. Walking bomb is strong but requires too great a point investment for something that is only useful on trash mobs.

Drop: Greater Heal, Revive, Unity, Spirit Bolt, Spirit Strike, Walking Bomb, Corrosive Walking Bomb

If you do a complete playthrough, you should hit level 26-27 with 30-31 talent points. I would pickup:

Pyromancer, Chain Lighting, Tempest, Chain Reaction, Elemental Weapons, Stunning Blast, Barrier, Arcane Fortress, Haste, Great Haste,

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

I disagree, spirit bolt is a nice spamming spell when fire and ice are on cooldown or you just find guys which are immune. And to upgrade it, you can have dispell, which is a nice card in your deck to pull out sometimes.
Revive in a neat spell too, at least if OP does't consider himself as a "pro".
Haste is definitely a good spell to have.
Walking bomb is more of a headache than a spell.
I would start like this: Heal, Horror, Winter's Grasp, Spirit Bolt + Dispel + Upgraded Spirit bolt
Then I would go for Cold spells and Force spells, leaving fire for a later part of the game.
I played Fire/Ice mage, and sadly, can't say it pays off like I thought it would. I would rather go Ice/Lightning/Force for AoE.

[Cstriker01]

Im level 17 now and I'm running the following:
Elemental all upgraded except fireball and cone of cold
Rock armor
Horror
Torment Hex
Spirit bolt upgraded
walking bomb
mindblast upgraded
crushing prison upgraded
blood magic with grave robber and sacrifice

I am tempted to drop totally either spirit or entropy (leaning towards dropping entropy) to get my specializations up. I want to grab paralyzing hemo as it does awesome stagger damage and get my +100 fortitude from force mage.

Any opinions on dropping entropy or spirit to get more force and blood mage goodness?

[Amioran]

hudweiser wrote...

So I'm starting a second playthrough as a Mage and I was wondering from our more magically inclined members if this build would work well?

biowarefans.com/dragon-age-2-talent-builder/#mEz1c0Ic1k0k1aV0a1R0Y1w0M1QGh0V1P0o1YIrL0A1j0NL1p

My goal was to pretty much build up a supporter who could also dish out some damage, set up the battlefield for CCC and to also exploit them.  I'll probably drag along Fenris/Aveline, Varric, and most likey Merill

I've heard good things about the Primal talent tree but I'm not sure if it would work with my playstyle since I'm more inclined towards AOE spells.

Any feedback is appreciated.

Fireball + Firestorm are a waste of points for your build. Much better Chain Lightning + Tempest. Tempest is very good because it is a CC tool, a thing your build is aimed at. Another thing to take in consideration is that if you can take the upgrade of both CL and Tempest, CL will be (alongside First of the Maker) your major income for damage (given the much increased damage on staggered enemies).

I would drop corrosive Walking Bomb (the upgrade is really not needed) and Valiant Aura and be sure to get Glyph of Paralysis + Upgrade. If you want to go for controller those two are very important, more so if you want to use Walking Bomb effectively (this way you have two means of setting good explosions, Gravitic + Glyph). If you drop Corrosive then you don't need Spirit Strike and you recover a point to spend elsewhere.

Also Pull of the Abyss is really not needed. 5s is really too little to do some real CC work. Unshakeable is much better (especially if you don't have Rock Armor)

Apart this if I had to go full CC/Supporter I would chose all another build but yours is fine for what I think you want to do.

Modifié par Amioran, 23 mars 2011 - 06:41 .

[hudweiser]

Thanks for the tips guys Atmosfear3 and DamnThosDisplayNames.

What are your opinions of the blood magic tree? Like the guy above me pointed out, I heard hemo works wonders

[Lumikki]

I play mostly mages, like 4 so far, but in normal difficulty. What I have notice about DA2 combat, it's all about damage. If you do enough damage, you don't need healing.

Also don't take spirit single damage spell, it's waste of mana. There is absolute no point to waste talent points to something what mages staff it self gives without mana cost.

I would take everyting under elemetal. Some primal spells, like Stonefist and perify. Then also Crushing prison from acrane and Heal from creation. Maybe some specialiation Force spells.

Why?

Because normal enemies are easy to kill fast with AoE attacks. The single attacks and control spells you need for elites. Bosses take so long time to kill that only real option is just use staffs base attacks and leave all mana for healing and normal enemies.

Now there is other good spells too like haste, but you need to take some useless spells to get it. Now don't get me wrong, control spells works fine, but why waste time to control, when you can just use raw force and kill them very fast with damage. I tryed few times control builds and it was allways worst than damage build.

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 mars 2011 - 06:38 .

[Amioran]

Lumikki wrote...

I play mostly mages, like 4 so far, but in normal difficulty. What I have notice that DA2, it's all about damage. If you do enough damage, you don't need healing. 

Maybe in normal. In Nightmare (or even Hard), crowd control is much more important than simple damage. DPS is probably the least important aspect for a good mage build at higher difficulties. 

BTW this is why many people consider Mages "gimped" in Nightmare, because they consider mages only from a DPS pow, when it shouldn't be the case. A party without CC in nightmare is a totally gimped party, and this time the word is for real.

[Lumikki]

Of course AoE damage spells are gimped in Nightmare difficulty, because Friendly Fire. But Hard diffculty is more close to Normal, than Nightmare difficulty.

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 mars 2011 - 06:41 .

[Amioran]

Lumikki wrote...

Of course AoE damage spells are gimped in Nightmare difficulty, because Friendly Fire. But Hard diffculty is more close to Normal, than Nightmare difficulty.

Also in Hard damage is less important than CC for a mage. FF has nothing to do with this, but more properly the health of enemies and the swarms coming from all sides. While on Normal damage done by AoEs is usually enough to dispatch either strong wave of enemies, in Hard it is not more so easy (above all on higher levels), so CC becomes much more important to not being overwhelmed. Hard, then, doesn't have immunities as Nightmare (where CC becomes either more necessary just for this), but however it has much higher resistances than Normal.

One example is the Forbidden Knowledge quest last encounter. If you have a mage build for CC the fight is much easier than if you have a mage build only for damage.

Modifié par Amioran, 23 mars 2011 - 06:48 .

[Trapslick]

bllod mage + fortitude from force mage = awesome tank with the help of a rouge.

[Lumikki]

Of course FF has everyting to do with this. You can have 4 character all doing AoE attacks in same location where you and enemies are, all the time. It will kill everyting except elites and bosses in the area. So, you need to control elite and up, but nothing else.

Control is damm good in DAO, but in DA2 the time how long control last is redused or changed to slow enemies. It's waste of mana to control, when you can just nuke them dead (waves of normal enemies).

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 mars 2011 - 06:48 .

[Amioran]

Lumikki wrote...

Of couse FF has everyting to do with this. You can have 4 character all doing AoE attacks in same location where you and enemies are, all the time. It will kill everyting except elites and bosses in the area. So, you need to control elite and up, but nothing else.

Control is damm good in DAO, but in DA2 the time how long control last is redused or changed to slow enemies. It's waste of mana to control, when you can just nuke them dead (waves of normal enemies).

Have you read anything at all of what I wrote? I suppose not.

Good luck on Hard difficulty when you use Firestorm on a swarm only to see enemies only drop 30-40% of health and the next swarm is coming. You can use another AoE, but it will change nothing, you will be overwhelmed easily. On harder difficulties the enemies have more and more health but the damage of the AoEs don't grow the same way. In Normal is all different.

If you have CC instead you can block all the swarms while you kill them. Gravitic Ring wins against Firestorm all the time.

As for DAO, I'm sorry to say it to you, but CC is MUCH MORE important in DA2 than DAO, just because DAO didn't have swarms not breaking of the lines of the party.

As I said try the Forbidden Knowledge on hard with only a mage and that specced only on damage, you will see the headache you will have. Then try the same fight speccing in CC, and see the immense difference.

Modifié par Amioran, 23 mars 2011 - 06:52 .

[Lumikki]

Okey, I assume you know what you talk, like I sayed. I play in normal difficulty.

What's you team class build when you do this, control mage thing?

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Amioran is right, crowd control is everything on Nightmare. But with force magic, you can use some AoEs too. I just don't like force magic.That's why I sticked to friendly fire AoE, single-target damage and crowd-control spells only.

What are your opinions of the blood magic tree? Like the guy above me pointed out, I heard hemo works wonders

I can say that I never stayed in BM as long in DA:O as in DA2. With mana potions nerfed, you need that additional mana, and the only way to have enough is classic heal/sacrifice battery (though just healing yourself with a potion with BM off works fine too). Spellcost reduced, and there is and abundance of blood magic improving items in the game. Ultimately, with BM, you have enough juice to stay in combat as long as you want.
Hemmorhage has been nerfed, too. Not the wunderwaffe twas before. Still, it has some advantages:
1) It does physical damage
2) It's friendly fire
3) If you got yourself a two-handed warrior who does enough STAGGER on enemies, and your reflexes and pausing are OK, you can see some serious s***.

can you elaborate what spells you take and the order you take them in?

I can name some. Horror (the cheesy one skill point awesemness), Petrify (Enemy: Brittle -> Mighty Blow on Fenris, look that guy explode), Stonefist (improved works well as control), Glyph of Paralysis (one mean spell), lightning spells (they shock enemies to play some "wounded" animation), cold spells, Crushing Prison (not that good, but still handy to have), and force mage (I only tested it a little, I'm not found of Force Magic idea).

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 24 mars 2011 - 06:19 .

[Hank_Da_Tank]

Sabresandiego's Ultimate Vanguard Guide makes Nightmare damn easy. And it's really fun too (to play as a 2h rapeage warrior). So try that if you want to beat nightmare. If you want to play as a mage, just swap Fenris to the dps/tank and make your Hawke the Merril of the group. Then you can go on a no-pause nightmare rape. (its really fun too) 

Modifié par Hank_Da_Tank, 24 mars 2011 - 06:25 .

[Hank_Da_Tank]

EDIT: Double Post Glitch Sorry

Modifié par Hank_Da_Tank, 24 mars 2011 - 06:23 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Well, there are two problems with that tactic, Hank_Da_Tank, at least for silly old me:
1) I prefer to destroy my foes with magic, if I play as a mage
2) Fenris is a white haired anime p*** and I want to grease him and set on fire

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 24 mars 2011 - 06:37 .

[Amioran]

m14567 wrote...

@Amioran I pretty much disagree with what you say but I am interested in your 'CC' mage build, can you elaborate what spells you take and the order you take them in?

When I have the time I will post it. It's nothing difficult however.

m14567 wrote...
To me, dead is the best CC in this game and that comes through damage. Like others have stated most mage 'CC' lasts 10-15s which against elites is 5-10s and bosses is either nothing or 2-5s, that is not terribly good CC. And secondly there isn't much crowd in mage CC either.

10s agains Elites is A LOT. Only a simple Petrify can save your life in nightmare against assassins. CC is for when there are swarms, not for bosses. Gravitic Ring has saved my life in the game a lot of times.

There are not so many CCs in the mage trees, I agree, but since the skill points are limited if you don't use those and invest only on damage in higher difficulties you will have many troubles. If I had to choose in Nightmare between taking ONLY damage and ONLY support/CC, I will go the latter, without a doubt.

Simple example: if I had to choose between spending 5 points for an upgraded Firestorm (to do relevant damage you need at last the +25% to fire), versus taking Glyph of Paralysis plus Upgraded Haste (not to mention Heal and Heroic Aura that are MUCH better than upgraded Fireball) the choice is clear for me. Haste makes all the spells cast 50% faster on top of insane damage for 20s for ALL the party.

Modifié par Amioran, 24 mars 2011 - 11:10 .

[Lumikki]

Creation tree, heal and haste are very good. They both provide good support. I liked when I had two haste (two mage), it did make killing very fast. Also the force tree has few good control spells.

How ever, you people are talking Nightmare. Hard difficulty is totally different thing, because no FF. AoE spells becomes much more usefull without FF. I mean OP is thinking to play in Hard difficulty, not in Nightmare. Usually higher difficulty is good way to "optimize" what is needed, because it allows less mistakes. How ever, in this case the FF makes it totally different.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 mars 2011 - 12:36 .