21 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

Which can absorb the most damage?  I'm wondering about things like their base health and base shield values.  I know that Tech Armor gives the Sentinel an advantage.

For my next PT, I'm thinking about trying a Sentinel with sniper rifle training.  I'd put my points into warp for stripping biotic barriers, overload for stripping shields, and take armor piercing ammo for a bonus power.  Use the Locust SMG early, then take sniper training and use the Mantis mostly, with some Tempest action for CQC.

[jeweledleah]

I prefer Sentinel. mos because I cannot aim for the life of me, unless its that very first sniper shot, you actually have some time to line up..so I run out of bullets too fast as a soldier. both can absorb large amounts of damage, though I feel like tech armor gives a bit more leeway.

[Badpanzer]

The Sentinel can spam tech armour and be VERY effective at CQC..especially if you take shotgun training....however the Revenant soldier is a monster and probably kills quicker than most builds..imo anyway.
My last soldier run I killed everything with the revenant..Oculus,Thresher maw,Scions,Praetorians and the Reaper core ..all bow to the might of the revenant! ....the Sentinel would be less boring though and assault armour rocks!

[XCPTNL]

Sentinel can absorb more with Assault Armor because it can be used constantly and also be used as a weapon. I think my Revenant Soldier's killspeed is still a bit faster than my Shotgun Assault Sentinel. Although they both look pale in comparison to a Claymore Vanguard. I played quite a few Sentinels and liked that class but I've grown tired of it by now and I think the Tech/Biotic mixup is more of a disadvantage than a good thing. So usually I just use Tech Armor all the time and run around the map, sometimes usings Throws in between. He's neither a good Biotic nor a good Tech Caster so going postal with a Shotgun and spamming Tech Armor is usually the only thing that's still a bit of fun though not as much as other classes in my opinion.

Using Sniper training on a Sentinel is btw the worst choice in my opinion. And taking the Mantis is even worse. A Sentinel needs a Shotgun. An Assault Rifle might also be worth it (Mattock in particular) but Sniper... well it just sucks for a Sentinel.

Modifié par Korjyan, 23 mars 2011 - 11:34 .

[Praetor Knight]

Well, in regards to absorbing damage, a Sentinel would be better since most damage will be to shields, so no damage halo to blur your vision most of the time as you take damage.

With the soldier, you should be taking most enemies out before you take significant damage and you can rely on AR to get behind cover. So the main danger as a soldier is getting staggered as you try to run for cover. I've had my fair share of dying from that.



Also an Assault Sentinel, it's more fun with a Shotgun to get in the face of the enemy, and which shotgun you go with depends on how you want to fight. I once made the mistake of going with AR training and wished I had an earlier save to go back and get Shotgun training. My 2nd Sentinel, I'didn't repeat that mistake.

But if you want the Mantis than maybe going with a caster sentinel could be an option you can pursue. Either passive works, but the difference is in going with Power Armor and not letting it break as you would with an Assault Sentinel, so that you alternate between casting other powers and sniping.


And as a final note, the Widow Soldier is the closest option to get 1S1K sniping in ME2.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Sentinel absorbs more damage, but Soldier still has better survivability on account of not getting hit nearly as much. Keep in mind, I'm not even taking into account the 50% damage reduction from Hardened AR

Lost of enemies have fast-firing weapons and rip through shields anyway, so the 'defense' bonus isn't as good as it sounds on paper.

Modifié par DarthCyclopsRLZ, 24 mars 2011 - 02:01 .

[Praetor Knight]

When Assault Armor breaks it sends a pulse that can stagger or kill enemies and it restores ~50% of your shields after the pulse.

Then factor shield research upgrades, like Hardened Shields and Redundant Field Generator and the Sentinels can cruise through levels.

Plus, I just remembered, each time that you reapply Tech Armor, your squad's cooldown is reset. So Legion, Tali and Liara, in particular, can really annihilate the enemy quickly with the Sentinel class.

[jamesp81]

Korjyan wrote...

Sentinel can absorb more with Assault Armor because it can be used constantly and also be used as a weapon. I think my Revenant Soldier's killspeed is still a bit faster than my Shotgun Assault Sentinel. Although they both look pale in comparison to a Claymore Vanguard. I played quite a few Sentinels and liked that class but I've grown tired of it by now and I think the Tech/Biotic mixup is more of a disadvantage than a good thing. So usually I just use Tech Armor all the time and run around the map, sometimes usings Throws in between. He's neither a good Biotic nor a good Tech Caster so going postal with a Shotgun and spamming Tech Armor is usually the only thing that's still a bit of fun though not as much as other classes in my opinion.

Using Sniper training on a Sentinel is btw the worst choice in my opinion. And taking the Mantis is even worse. A Sentinel needs a Shotgun. An Assault Rifle might also be worth it (Mattock in particular) but Sniper... well it just sucks for a Sentinel.

I disagree.  The Locust SMG is as good as an assault rifle, so there's no need to take assault rifle training.  It really comes down to whether you prefer a sniper rifle or a shotgun.  I prefer a sniper rifle.

And I also don't get all the hate on the Mantis.  It's my favorite SR besides the Widow, of course.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

When Assault Armor breaks it sends a pulse that can stagger or kill enemies and it restores ~50% of your shields after the pulse.

Then factor shield research upgrades, like Hardened Shields and Redundant Field Generator and the Sentinels can cruise through levels.

Plus, I just remembered, each time that you reapply Tech Armor, your squad's cooldown is reset. So Legion, Tali and Liara, in particular, can really annihilate the enemy quickly with the Sentinel class.

I doubt anyone will argue over Tech Armor *not* being overpowered. The pulse, cooldown and shield regen/damage bonuses are just ridiculous.

Modifié par DarthCyclopsRLZ, 24 mars 2011 - 03:31 .

[lazuli]

Taking any other weapon than the shotgun at the Collector Ship seems like such a waste as a Sentinel. If you're not abusing Tech Armor for its close combat goodness, consider playing an Adept or Engineer.

That said, I had an enjoyable run through LotSB with a Vindicator Sentinel last night. Highly satisfying.

[XCPTNL]

jamesp81 wrote...

I disagree.  The Locust SMG is as good as an assault rifle, so there's no need to take assault rifle training.  It really comes down to whether you prefer a sniper rifle or a shotgun.  I prefer a sniper rifle.

And I also don't get all the hate on the Mantis.  It's my favorite SR besides the Widow, of course.

That is if you use a Locust. I don't use it because it sucks in my opinion. it may be accurate but having a history in tournament shooters I'm a good enough shot to handle the Shuriken and Tempest. So I don't even consider the Locust an option for an Assault Sentinel who is usually very close to the enemy. I wouldn't take AR training for anything else than a Mattock which basically is a Sniper Rifle without Zoom so you can use it when casting powers behind cover without the annoying zoom and use it while running towards an enemy, then switching to the Tempest when you are close. I still would always recommend a Shotgun but if not a Shotgun then a Mattock. All the Sniper Rifle does is force you to play slowly, hide behind cover and get bored. And the only good option then is being a Caster Sentinel. But if you want to play a caster, play an Adept or Engineer instead.

The hate for the Mantis can be explained easily: After the initial levels it doesn't one-shot a lot of regular enemies anymore like the Widow + it's maximum ammo is too low + the usual ammo pickup is 1.

[Bozorgmehr]

DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...

Sentinel absorbs more damage, but Soldier still has better survivability on account of not getting hit nearly as much. Keep in mind, I'm not even taking into account the 50% damage reduction from Hardened AR.

The damage reduction only works when Soldier Shep lost his/her shield - it does nothing when shield is still up.

Soldier does not have better survivability - following your logic means Adepts and Engineers have the best survivability in ME2 because their powerful CC powers will reduce/completely eliminate enemy counter fire.

Lost of enemies have fast-firing weapons and rip through shields anyway, so the 'defense' bonus isn't as good as it sounds on paper.

True, and that's the reason why an Assault Sentinel is (almost) impossible to kill. The initial TA shield + TA explosion + AA's shield boost will keep a Sentinel alive (and health remains untouched) for 4 seconds - regardless what enemies throw at Sentinel in the meantime.

If you're not convinced I recommend to move somewhere in the open with a lot of enemies around shooting Shep, try Soldier and watch how long (s)he stays alive, and try an Assault Sentinel next.

[jamesp81]

lazuli wrote...

Taking any other weapon than the shotgun at the Collector Ship seems like such a waste as a Sentinel. If you're not abusing Tech Armor for its close combat goodness, consider playing an Adept or Engineer.

That said, I had an enjoyable run through LotSB with a Vindicator Sentinel last night. Highly satisfying.

Engineers lack a power that strips biotic barriers.  They're hell on shielded enemies, but have nothing to strip barriers.  The genius of a Sentinel is that it can strip biotic barriers AND shielded enemies.  Without shields in place, Mantis with AP Ammo (bonus power I chose) can kill most enemies with a single headshot.

I can see the wisdom of taking the Mattock, however, as it has most of the firepower of the Viper with the advantages of casting without scoping.

I know shotgun might be the "best" weapon for a Sentinel, but the shotguns in ME2 suck.  I used them a lot in ME1, but I'd rather saw my fingers off with a tomato than use them in ME2.

I looked at being an Engineer, and I put a lot of thought into stripping biotic barriers.  I could take Reave as a bonus power, but but it doesn't do instant damage.  It also takes squad points away from combat drone, which pairs well with a sniper rifle.  I could take Warp Ammo, which has the advantage of stripping biotic barriers without initiating a cooldown, but it's damage bonus is low compared to AP ammo.  I'd like to be able strip all barriers and shields so that I could use AP ammo instead...that's kind of the point of stripping defenses anyway, IMO, to make the enemy vulnerable to your conventional weapons.

[jamesp81]

Having thought about this, I can see the wisdom of rolling with a Mattock sentinel and taking AP ammo for my bonus power. This would free up the SMG slot for a Tempest in case of CQC. Overload and Warp to strip defenses, AP Mattock to finish the job.

Still thinking strongly about taking the Mantis instead.

I know people like the Sentinel for CQC, but CQC has NEVER been my thing in ME2. I can do a slow, grind them down sort of play, or a tactical maneuver style of play, but straight CQ is not my thing and never will be.

I guess the issue is that I don't see the sentinel's tech armor as an offensive tool like CQC guys do. I see it as an "oh ****" defense that gives me room to escape if I make a mistake (pulse disables enemies I may have missed).

[lazuli]

jamesp81 wrote...
Engineers lack a power that strips biotic barriers.  They're hell on shielded enemies, but have nothing to strip barriers.  The genius of a Sentinel is that it can strip biotic barriers AND shielded enemies.  Without shields in place, Mantis with AP Ammo (bonus power I chose) can kill most enemies with a single headshot.

Bring Miranda, Thane, Kasumi, or Samara when you anticipate barriers.  Or just shoot them off with the Locust or GPS.

I know shotgun might be the "best" weapon for a Sentinel, but the shotguns in ME2 suck.  I used them a lot in ME1, but I'd rather saw my fingers off with a tomato than use them in ME2.

There's no accounting for taste, I guess.  I know the close range required can be frustrating, but they do more damage now than they ever did in ME1.  If it's the range that bugs you, consider using the GPS from the Firepower Pack.

I looked at being an Engineer, and I put a lot of thought into stripping biotic barriers.  I could take Reave as a bonus power, but but it doesn't do instant damage.  It also takes squad points away from combat drone, which pairs well with a sniper rifle.  I could take Warp Ammo, which has the advantage of stripping biotic barriers without initiating a cooldown, but it's damage bonus is low compared to AP ammo.  I'd like to be able strip all barriers and shields so that I could use AP ammo instead...that's kind of the point of stripping defenses anyway, IMO, to make the enemy vulnerable to your conventional weapons.

Reave deals instantaneous damage to enemy defenses.  It's only against organic enemies' health that it deals prolonged damage.  I don't see why you'd need to drop points from the Engineer's best ability to get Reave, though.  It's not as if you need to master Overload or Cryo Blast as an Engineer.

Defenses drop quickly to the appropriate type of weapon.  You don't need a specific power to counter each type of defense when you have guns available to you.  It doesn't hurt to bring Warp against Collectors, but you can live and even thrive without it.

I never bother mastering Overload as a Sentinel.  There are better places to put points.

[XCPTNL]

Don't worry about defense stripping abbilities so much. Just bring squadmates for this. Take a look at the Soldier... this class doesn't have any powers and is still pretty strong. You can always use your weapons to strip defenses fast. Shields go down very quickly as do Barriers (talking about standard enemies). Also be aware that most enemies in the game use Shields, there aren't many enemies with Barriers.

Modifié par Korjyan, 24 mars 2011 - 03:39 .

[jamesp81]

Korjyan wrote...

Don't worry about defense stripping abbilities so much. Just bring squadmates for this. Take a look at the Soldier... this class doesn't have any powers and is still pretty strong. You can always use your weapons to strip defenses fast. Shields go down very quickly as do Barriers (talking about standard enemies). Also be aware that most enemies in the game use Shields, there aren't many enemies with Barriers.

I've already played Soldier to death.  Got a hardcore PT under my belt as Soldier.  Looking for something different just to be different.

Although, there's something to be said for being a Sniper Soldier.  My favorite weapon as a soldier is the Widow + Adrenaline + Disruptor ammo or Warp ammo as appropriate.  That thing is a damned beast.

Modifié par jamesp81, 24 mars 2011 - 03:51 .

[jamesp81]

lazuli wrote...

I know shotgun might be the "best" weapon for a Sentinel, but the shotguns in ME2 suck.  I used them a lot in ME1, but I'd rather saw my fingers off with a tomato than use them in ME2.

There's no accounting for taste, I guess.  I know the close range required can be frustrating, but they do more damage now than they ever did in ME1.  If it's the range that bugs you, consider using the GPS from the Firepower Pack.

That has not been my experience, at all.  Two shot kills were pretty common for me in ME1, and the rate of fire for SGs was much better.  In ME2, the shotguns often require 3 or more blasts to kill an enemy (eviscerator and claymore are a bit better on that count) and the rate of fire is total fail.  I hate the Eviscerator with a passion for its painfully slow rate of fire.  I can tolerate the Claymore if someone makes me use it.  I do not like that it's single shot like a sniper rifle.  Single shot is OK in long range weapons (Widow, Mantis).  It's unacceptable in a CQB weapon.  Yes, I know there's a "reload trick" that can help.  I haven't learned it and I have no intention of doing so.  Given a choice, I'll use the Katana or Scimitar, but neither is inspiring.  Except for when the Claymore has enough power to kill with one shot, I have never encountered a situation where I could kill an enemy faster with a shotgun than I could with the Vindicator or Mattock.

[Sparrow44]

If you're not keen on shotguns I'd try the Mattock with a Sentinel, people will say it's a sniper with the scope removed but it will also function as 16-shot semi automatic shotgun thanks to it's DPS if the situation arises for CQC action. (And as a Sentinel with Assault Armor you just may be tempted to try out the strength of your shields and go for close range anyways).

And yeah Assault armor will soak up more damage than a Soldier even with Hardened AR, which is why shotguns tend to be their weapon of choice. Small tip if you go Sentinel; activate Assault armor and wait for the cooldown to reset then go and charge an enemy after your initial shield is depleted you'll get a shield recharge instantly and when that's gone cast another AA and repeat as necessary.

Point being that you can end up with up to 4 layers of shields at once if you re-cast in time and if you're lucky and Redundant Field Generator comes into play possibly 5 (although I've only encountered these on rare occasions btw).

Modifié par Sparroww, 24 mars 2011 - 05:45 .

[XCPTNL]

jamesp81 wrote...

I've already played Soldier to death.

I didn't mean you should look at the Soldier as a class to play but as an example for a class that doesn't have any powers to strip defenses and does just fine, even without using all weapons or Ammo Powers. It's really not that important. I barely use anything else on my Sentinel than Tech Armor. Sometimes I use a Throw or Warp but very rarely. Most of the time I just run around the battlefield and kill everything with either the Tempest or the Shotgun (usually Scimitar, because I already use the Geth Shotgun for the "pure" casters Adept and Engineer).

jamesp81 wrote...

That has not been my experience, at all.  Two shot kills were pretty
common for me in ME1, and the rate of fire for SGs was much better.  In
ME2, the shotguns often require 3 or more blasts to kill an enemy
(eviscerator and claymore are a bit better on that count) and the rate
of fire is total fail.  I hate the Eviscerator with a passion for its
painfully slow rate of fire.  I can tolerate the Claymore if someone
makes me use it.  I do not like that it's single shot like a sniper
rifle.  Single shot is OK in long range weapons (Widow, Mantis).  It's
unacceptable in a CQB weapon.  Yes, I know there's a "reload trick" that
can help.  I haven't learned it and I have no intention of doing so. 
Given a choice, I'll use the Katana or Scimitar, but neither is
inspiring.  Except for when the Claymore has enough power to kill with
one shot, I have never encountered a situation where I could kill an
enemy faster with a shotgun than I could with the Vindicator or Mattock.

Clearly you are not a shotgun person and I don't to convince you to use one if you don't like them. Use something else like you suggested. But trust me, Shotguns are pretty strong. The Claymore is a beast and no other class can kill as fast as the Vanguard with a Claymore. Check out the latest Video from Arelex in the Berserker Vanguard thread www.youtube.com/watch - it's not my video but I play the same way and not even the overpowered Widow/Mattock Soldier can clear EVERY level this fast. The Claymore is totally badass and doesn't need more than 1 shot in the clip. The reload trick is pretty simple (on PC) but even if you don't use it the Claymore is pretty strong. I encounter situations all the time where I can kill enemies much faster with Shotguns than with any other weapon. I admit, it took some getting used to Shotguns but they are pretty awesome, especially for Vanguards (obviously) and Sentinels. I prefer to use the Widow on Infiltrators but Infiltrators with Shotguns are also pretty strong. And I use Shotguns on the caster classes as well although I don't really think of the Geth Shotgun as a Shotgun and play not as aggressive with Adepts and Engineers as with the other 4 classes. But if you don't like them pick something else. Just save your game regularly and try different weapons for the Sentinel. In my opinion the Sentinel is only fun if played aggressively because that's what Assault Armor is for. It's not like it withstands a lot of fire on Insanity so Power Armor is pretty useless because it doesn't last very long, doesn't do as much damage when it explodes and leaves you vulnerable after it's gone. So you want your Armor to explode and harm + knock down enemies and use it as a weapon to move towards the enemies. At least on Insanity and I don't play anything else - I'm sure it can withstand more pressure on lower difficulties and Power Armor + a cast-focussed build might be an option.

[lazuli]

I don't know how experienced you are with ME2. I can only speak for myself. It took me a while before I was comfortable with shotguns and close combat. My first Vanguard Insanity run was an absolute failure. Now it's the most thrilling way for me to play the game.

If you are even interested in exploring the benefits of close combat, the Sentinel will offer the gentlest learning curve.

[jamesp81]

Korjyan wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

I've already played Soldier to death.

I didn't mean you should look at the Soldier as a class to play but as an example for a class that doesn't have any powers to strip defenses and does just fine, even without using all weapons or Ammo Powers. It's really not that important. I barely use anything else on my Sentinel than Tech Armor. Sometimes I use a Throw or Warp but very rarely. Most of the time I just run around the battlefield and kill everything with either the Tempest or the Shotgun (usually Scimitar, because I already use the Geth Shotgun for the "pure" casters Adept and Engineer).

jamesp81 wrote...

That has not been my experience, at all.  Two shot kills were pretty
common for me in ME1, and the rate of fire for SGs was much better.  In
ME2, the shotguns often require 3 or more blasts to kill an enemy
(eviscerator and claymore are a bit better on that count) and the rate
of fire is total fail.  I hate the Eviscerator with a passion for its
painfully slow rate of fire.  I can tolerate the Claymore if someone
makes me use it.  I do not like that it's single shot like a sniper
rifle.  Single shot is OK in long range weapons (Widow, Mantis).  It's
unacceptable in a CQB weapon.  Yes, I know there's a "reload trick" that
can help.  I haven't learned it and I have no intention of doing so. 
Given a choice, I'll use the Katana or Scimitar, but neither is
inspiring.  Except for when the Claymore has enough power to kill with
one shot, I have never encountered a situation where I could kill an
enemy faster with a shotgun than I could with the Vindicator or Mattock.

Clearly you are not a shotgun person and I don't to convince you to use one if you don't like them. Use something else like you suggested. But trust me, Shotguns are pretty strong. The Claymore is a beast and no other class can kill as fast as the Vanguard with a Claymore. Check out the latest Video from Arelex in the Berserker Vanguard thread www.youtube.com/watch - it's not my video but I play the same way and not even the overpowered Widow/Mattock Soldier can clear EVERY level this fast. The Claymore is totally badass and doesn't need more than 1 shot in the clip. The reload trick is pretty simple (on PC) but even if you don't use it the Claymore is pretty strong. I encounter situations all the time where I can kill enemies much faster with Shotguns than with any other weapon. I admit, it took some getting used to Shotguns but they are pretty awesome, especially for Vanguards (obviously) and Sentinels. I prefer to use the Widow on Infiltrators but Infiltrators with Shotguns are also pretty strong. And I use Shotguns on the caster classes as well although I don't really think of the Geth Shotgun as a Shotgun and play not as aggressive with Adepts and Engineers as with the other 4 classes. But if you don't like them pick something else. Just save your game regularly and try different weapons for the Sentinel. In my opinion the Sentinel is only fun if played aggressively because that's what Assault Armor is for. It's not like it withstands a lot of fire on Insanity so Power Armor is pretty useless because it doesn't last very long, doesn't do as much damage when it explodes and leaves you vulnerable after it's gone. So you want your Armor to explode and harm + knock down enemies and use it as a weapon to move towards the enemies. At least on Insanity and I don't play anything else - I'm sure it can withstand more pressure on lower difficulties and Power Armor + a cast-focussed build might be an option.

On 2nd thought, maybe you're right.  I'll try rolling the Sentinel with a Scimitar shotgun and the Locust SMG.  The whole point is to do something different just for the fun of being different.