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[AlexXIV]

SupR G wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I'm just not fond of trilogy syndrome myself, I always hate the middle story existing solely to be the hook for the finale.

That's why The Empire Strikes Back is the worst of the bunch.

Actually in the case of Empire Strikes Back, it was the best one of them all. Unless you like Ewoks.

I agree and imo the Episode 1 is the worst of all the SW movies.

Anyway back on topic. I guess Bioware could have done better giving the player the illusion of choice (like in DA:O) without actually doing it. I really think in DA2 it is getting obvious pretty fast that you don't have alot of choices unless your plan is something ridiculous as killing off/losing all your companions for no reason other than showing that you had a choice.

I mean in DA:O I always sided with the elves, I always saved the circle, I always saved the whole family of Eamon, and with one exception always chose Harrowmont as king of Orzammar. I basically did the same thing all the time but I wasn't forced to. That's I think the difference. People really don't like to play the game differently all the time, they just hate if they have to go a predefined path.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 24 mars 2011 - 07:17 .

[Vukodlak]

One difference is if the champion is the hero or the villain who inspires the rebellion.

But really the very end of DAO is you slay the archdemon, everything else is a side decision.

In DAII the Qunari might get the relic back or not, Certain companions may survive or not. Certain NPC's may be killed by your or be spared. You could become Viscount(before you mysteriously vanish) or you could flee the city and then vanish. (I would point out that in many of the Warden's endings there is a line about how years later they vanished).

But as DAII is narrated by Varric, he can't say what became of each companion or each NPC you effected over the course of the game.The most you get are letters in the act following the one you met them in. When you boil it all down its not all that different.

Modifié par Vukodlak, 24 mars 2011 - 07:27 .

[DrFumb1ezX]

Didn't Wynne technically die? She said she did, and was brought back to life by a Spirit.
What's to say Justice didn't do that? Couldn't he have stopped Anders from going to the Void?
I rest my case, and my sandwich.

P.S. Empire wasn't bad, was it? DID MY PARENTS LIE TO ME?!

[RevanchistStenn]

Did Mass Effect 2 have a range of endings as well? It's the middle child in at least a trilogy, and it's about a war/uprising that is much larger than Kirkwall or Hawke. Instead of telling you, you will probably get the chance to see it yourself. Would Mass Effect 2 have been greatly improved if it ended with a text scroll saying, "the battle with the Reapers nearly cost everything, but in the end Shepard prevailed"?

[Per Bialaska]

Dragon Age: Origins also included an epilogue text telling you what happened at the locations you were in, how your actions affected the world around you. Did you side with Werewolves or Dalish Elves? Did you put Bhelen on the throne or Harrowmount. Did you kill the Circle or save them? Did you kill Loghain or recruit him? Did you die fighting the Archdemon, did you accept Morrrigan's offer, did another take the blow for you? Who was put on Ferelden's throne and how is their rule? Are the ashes made public or did you choose to keep it secret or did you destroy it?

It all adds up, it all gives different endings to the story. Your actions matter, your decisions shape the world, making it different each game.

In DA2 you lack any such closure. Your influence on the world is almost non-existent. It is fine that a war between mages and templars will break out in the end, which eventually will lead to all of the circles going independent. But on your path there, you really didn't have anything that you could influence. Your choices mean absolutely nothing.

You save Grace or you give her to the Circle? She comes back and tries to kill you no matter what. You support the mages or the templars? Either way you have an Orsino abomination and an insane Meredith. You try to find the Qun artifact or go directly to the Qun? The war breaks out, because Isabella runs off with the artifact anyway. You bring the Qun mage out of the city? There's a bunch of Qun waiting for you at the end, trying to kill you, only influence is whether they do so if you refuse to hand over the mage or after you give him over and they have to remove evidence.

[Tsarapihelas]

Tamahome560 wrote...

Also anyone who expected multiple endings didn't listen to what the devs and trailers have been saying all the time since the game was announced. The outcome of the story was already set: Chantry has fallen to pieces and the world is at the brink of war. Your role in the game was to decide what kind of person was the Champion and what was the reasoning behind the choices he made which lead to the events at present.

QFT.

[jma2286]

Per Bialaska wrote...

Dragon Age: Origins also included an epilogue text telling you what happened at the locations you were in, how your actions affected the world around you. Did you side with Werewolves or Dalish Elves? Did you put Bhelen on the throne or Harrowmount. Did you kill the Circle or save them? Did you kill Loghain or recruit him? Did you die fighting the Archdemon, did you accept Morrrigan's offer, did another take the blow for you? Who was put on Ferelden's throne and how is their rule? Are the ashes made public or did you choose to keep it secret or did you destroy it?

It all adds up, it all gives different endings to the story. Your actions matter, your decisions shape the world, making it different each game.

In DA2 you lack any such closure. Your influence on the world is almost non-existent. It is fine that a war between mages and templars will break out in the end, which eventually will lead to all of the circles going independent. But on your path there, you really didn't have anything that you could influence. Your choices mean absolutely nothing.

You save Grace or you give her to the Circle? She comes back and tries to kill you no matter what. You support the mages or the templars? Either way you have an Orsino abomination and an insane Meredith. You try to find the Qun artifact or go directly to the Qun? The war breaks out, because Isabella runs off with the artifact anyway. You bring the Qun mage out of the city? There's a bunch of Qun waiting for you at the end, trying to kill you, only influence is whether they do so if you refuse to hand over the mage or after you give him over and they have to remove evidence.

Yeah the influence on the world is nonexistent. You only have the biggest uprising in Thedan history started by your and your companions actions against the Chantry that has been in power for a thousand years. The choices mean plenty.

- Grace is a desperate person who invented a reason to go after you. If you let her roam free with the others, she blames you not giving her a stack of gold to set up shop for them getting caught. If you turn her in, you're the bastard that turned her in. Why do you care what she thinks anyway?

- Supporting the mages or templars is a symbolic effect that will put a certain tone on the war to come. Furthermore, you are the VISCOUNT of you support the templars I think that matters a little bit. Supporting the mages gives them a figurehead and face to their resistance.

- The Qunari were going to go to war anyway. The Chantry killed one of their recruits and their delegates, the City wanted to arrest others, and either way, Hawke shows up without the book at the time they are ready to go ahead with it. If he did, they would leave.

- Yes Petrice set you up. She wanted you or the mage to die, preferably both. She understood enough about the Qunari to know something like that would happen. The person set up doesn't get to choose what happens.

The epilogue at the end was nice of BioWare to make for Origins and Awakening, but why do that if you can leave people wanting more? That's not just profitable that's good storytelling. Not having a clue what happens next other than speculation is more realistic than having an idea based on an omniscient reflection hinting at what happens next.

Get over it.

[schminck]

ziloe wrote...

What the hell? I just did the Templar path and nothing changed, except the route you take. Even the epilogue with Varric adds basically one single sentence of your becoming Viscount. Ooh, big deal! 

Gawd Bioware, you should be ashamed of yourself! 

Yeah, that was my reaction exactly.  I LOVED the game, for what it was, but at the end I felt kind of let down... no big text of various epilogue endings either depending on your decisions.  Annoying.

[schminck]

The epilogue at the end was nice of BioWare to make for Origins and Awakening, but why do that if you can leave people wanting more? That's not just profitable that's good storytelling. Not having a clue what happens next other than speculation is more realistic than having an idea based on an omniscient reflection hinting at what happens next.

Get over it.

I'm unsure about this logic... most people wouldn't be "left wanting more" in this situation.  It's not like this AMAZING game just like it's first installment.  It's more like a second game that left out features people LOVED in the first.  Most people, when dissatisfied with a product, would boycot the next product.  >.>

[ziloe]

schminck wrote...

ziloe wrote...

What the hell? I just did the Templar path and nothing changed, except the route you take. Even the epilogue with Varric adds basically one single sentence of your becoming Viscount. Ooh, big deal! 

Gawd Bioware, you should be ashamed of yourself! 

Yeah, that was my reaction exactly.  I LOVED the game, for what it was, but at the end I felt kind of let down... no big text of various epilogue endings either depending on your decisions.  Annoying.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm getting attacked in my other thread for having a difference of opinion due to disappointment.

[schminck]

ziloe wrote...

schminck wrote...

ziloe wrote...

What the hell? I just did the Templar path and nothing changed, except the route you take. Even the epilogue with Varric adds basically one single sentence of your becoming Viscount. Ooh, big deal! 

Gawd Bioware, you should be ashamed of yourself! 

Yeah, that was my reaction exactly.  I LOVED the game, for what it was, but at the end I felt kind of let down... no big text of various epilogue endings either depending on your decisions.  Annoying.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm getting attacked in my other thread for having a difference of opinion due to disappointment.

More often than not it's just the usual internet reaction.  You have opinion A, so I must call you a moron... since my Opinion B is much more valid.

But I find a lot of people have this opinion... it's not that we hate DA:2, or that we even didn't like it... I think we are just worried this might be where the franchise is going, and THAT we don't like.

We don't want to take any steps backward.  We LIKE moving forward, with DA:2.... but don't remove the best parts of DA:O and call it "moving forward."

I can get behind having a "Sheperd-like" main character, with a voice.  I can get behind the combat changes (and actually love them.  Seriously, anyone who doesn't like it, play on Nightmare and wrap your strategy brain around that =D ).  I can get behind the dialogue wheel.  I can get behind the companion gear never changing.

What I can't get behind is the scenery never ever ever ever ever changing.  Oh, that same mansion... oh look... that cave again, but we entered from the BACK this time... totally different, RIGHT!?

What I can't behind is the insistance of Bioware to think that to make a fight more challenging they should just have more mobs spawn on you from odd locations over and over and over again.  How did the guys get behind me when I cleared  the entrance?  And why does everyone seem to command LOADS of minions who just like to wait in the wings for hours on end until their boss goes "ATTACK THE HERO!"

What I really can't behind though is making it be about no epilogue at the end due to your choices.  I love the fact, LOVE LOVE LOVE the fact that you could have so many different things happen in the end of Origins, and Awakening.  Think about it too... so many different endings happened that they even made the cameos in DA:II different, depending on your choices.  You really felt like you affected the story and plot, majorly.

In DA:II, you just didn't get the feeling.  I don't care if that is what they wanted, I don't care if they "said that already" in interviews.  I didn't listen to the interviews.  I bought DA:II to experience that same wonderful feeling at the end I got of DA:O... and then want to rush to play another race and be completely different.

In DA:II, I have no desire to do that.  What's going to be different?  I can have a Snarky Hawke who supported the mages or Templars... a surly Hawke who... supported the mages and Templars... or... a kind and sweet and honorable Hawke who... yeah you get the idea.  I can either be Viscount at the end, or not.  That's it.  And there was NO dialogue at all after the game telling me "So and so did this... so and so did this... then this happened because of your actions..."

There was no closure. I wanted closure, to hold me over to the next game and make me drool for more downloadable content and salivate for more.

Now?  I don't WANT more... not more of this.  I want more of the feeling I got after I played DA:O.  Here's hoping they listen, and make DA:3 everything DA:O -and- DA:2 was.  Not just more of DA:2, with possibly even LESS involvement in the world and even more cut and paste dungeons to explore.

That's why the fans are so important.  We want to save where we fear the franchise is going, that's all.