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Lore behind LI's bisexuality!


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#51
Maclimes

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Anders and Isabela are bisexual. That is, they are aware of having feelings for members of both genders, and have relations with them in the past.

Fenris and Merrill are, until they meet Hawke, asexual. They don't flirt, they don't have any sexual past. They are not straight, gay, or bisexual. They're more like a child before he discovers girls (or boys, or both). In short, they're not bisexual, they simply haven't thought about it or figured it out yet.
But when Hawke expresses interest, and relations are properly maintained, they fall in love and become gay or straight, depending on who is who. In essence, they are Hawke-o-sexual.

Sebastian is simply straight.

Modifié par Maclimes, 24 mars 2011 - 12:29 .


#52
SirEuain

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Maclimes wrote...

Anders and Isabela are bisexual. That is, they are aware of having feelings for members of both genders, and have relations with them in the past.

Fenris and Merrill are, until they meet Hawke, asexual. They don't flirt, they don't have any sexual past. They are not straight, gay, or bisexual. They're more like a child before he discovers girls (or boys, or both). In short, they're not bisexual, they simply haven't thought about it or figured it out yet.
But when Hawke expresses interest, and relations are properly maintained, they fall in love and become gay or straight, depending on who is who. In essence, they are Hawke-o-sexual.

Sebastian is simply straight.


That's quite possibly true about Fenris -- his memory only extends back a few years, and it may just be me, but I did see sexual overtones with his relationship with his former master, which would be a very good reason for him not to flirt with anyone, regardless of his feelings as Leto might have been. Given that revenge and hate are foremost in his mind, the thought of anything else may not come to his mind on his own, or if it does, he dismisses it just as quickly.

Merrill... Merrill I disagree on. I think Merrill isn't asexual so much as incredibly shy and completely convinced that her life, while not worthless, is of less value than others'. Playing through with Merrill, I got the feeling that she had a crush on Hawke almost from the start. I don't think Merrill was ignorant of her bisexuality, so much as she was just unconfident in herself and trying to keep it quiet to avoid embarassment -- even if you flirt with her exclusively, she's surprised when Hawke picks her.

I also think this discussion needs two more party members for a proper perspective: Varric and Aveline.

Varric, for instance, comes off as straight. I've only seen him flirt with Isabela, and even then he gets nervous when she flirts with Bianca. He's also not serious about it, and his banter about the Hanged Man implies that he's really only interested in other dwarves.

Aveline, in contrast, I saw more opportunities to flirt with than I did Fenris or Anders, and it still came to nothing -- I don't think her character even realized Hawke was interested. She clearly wasn't interested back by the endgame, though she implies that she gave it some thought years prior. I can't tell if Aveline's straight or bi, but I can tell that she comes off pretty realisticaly in that either way, her type doesn't really include Hawke.

(I also think people are buying into Isabela's public mask more than they should. She eventually makes it clear that, as funny as it is to brag about all the stout, strong men on her ship, she very rarely did anything with them. She's a tremendous flirt, and has few hangups about sex or gender, but her only prior romance was with a man. In that sense, at least, she's nearly as inexperienced as Merrill.)

#53
CrookedAsylum

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vlyms1 wrote...

Ok, I know most of us read in the news that DA II will feature romance options for all genders and orientations, but some of them are clearly lacking the reason why are bisexual, let's take a look:
Isabela: Bisexual for obvious reasons
Anders: ??? Don't get it here, I mean when Awakening came he was introduced mostly as a straight character, read somewhere on some news that all he wanted was to be free and a girl, not sure why they made him Bi, maybe since he fused with Justice and that somewhat changed him or something, can't think other reasons...
Fenris: ??? Still don't get it why he's Bi? I mean he got brainwashed by the ritual to infuse him with lyrium, and he sayed once he refused to get close to anybody, not sure why he turned Bi
Merrill: ??? This one I really can't imagine beeing Bi, I mean the Dalish have a tradition for maintaining elven blood or something, and can't see her as Bi...
Sebastian: Straight for obvious reasons, i guess he could have been only gay since he lived in the chantry for so many years and all among men...

As you can see, there's not much background for almost all, (all if u don't got exiled prince dlc) for bisexual romances, i thought that one will be straight, one will be gay and one or two bi, not all bi, seems a bit of fanservice don't u think?


I'm asexual. And bi.

Riddle me that, good sir.

#54
Dan-mac RI

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CrookedAsylum wrote...

vlyms1 wrote...

Ok, I know most of us read in the news that DA II will feature romance options for all genders and orientations, but some of them are clearly lacking the reason why are bisexual, let's take a look:
Isabela: Bisexual for obvious reasons
Anders: ??? Don't get it here, I mean when Awakening came he was introduced mostly as a straight character, read somewhere on some news that all he wanted was to be free and a girl, not sure why they made him Bi, maybe since he fused with Justice and that somewhat changed him or something, can't think other reasons...
Fenris: ??? Still don't get it why he's Bi? I mean he got brainwashed by the ritual to infuse him with lyrium, and he sayed once he refused to get close to anybody, not sure why he turned Bi
Merrill: ??? This one I really can't imagine beeing Bi, I mean the Dalish have a tradition for maintaining elven blood or something, and can't see her as Bi...
Sebastian: Straight for obvious reasons, i guess he could have been only gay since he lived in the chantry for so many years and all among men...

As you can see, there's not much background for almost all, (all if u don't got exiled prince dlc) for bisexual romances, i thought that one will be straight, one will be gay and one or two bi, not all bi, seems a bit of fanservice don't u think?


I'm asexual. And bi.

Riddle me that, good sir.


Asari?

#55
fluorine7

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SirEuain wrote...

That's quite possibly true about Fenris -- his memory only extends back a few years, and it may just be me, but I did see sexual overtones with his relationship with his former master, which would be a very good reason for him not to flirt with anyone, regardless of his feelings as Leto might have been. Given that revenge and hate are foremost in his mind, the thought of anything else may not come to his mind on his own, or if it does, he dismisses it just as quickly.


Yes...... Gosh thank you! I'm not the only one who get all... when Danarius call Fenris "my little pet". (or something like that). 

I know there's something going on between the two, I just know it! 

#56
Malja

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CrookedAsylum wrote...

I'm asexual. And bi.

Riddle me that, good sir.


I like this riddle. Ftw biromantic.

#57
CrookedAsylum

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Dan-mac RI wrote...

Asari?


Only on Tuesday.

Malja wrote...

CrookedAsylum wrote...

I'm asexual. And bi.

Riddle me that, good sir.


I like this riddle. Ftw biromantic.


Now I feel are warm and fuzzy.

Modifié par CrookedAsylum, 24 mars 2011 - 01:41 .


#58
Trophonius

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fluorine7 wrote...

SirEuain wrote...

That's quite possibly true about Fenris -- his memory only extends back a few years, and it may just be me, but I did see sexual overtones with his relationship with his former master, which would be a very good reason for him not to flirt with anyone, regardless of his feelings as Leto might have been. Given that revenge and hate are foremost in his mind, the thought of anything else may not come to his mind on his own, or if it does, he dismisses it just as quickly.


Yes...... Gosh thank you! I'm not the only one who get all... when Danarius call Fenris "my little pet". (or something like that). 

I know there's something going on between the two, I just know it! 


That's probably why I found Danarius' scene with Fenris particularly distasteful on a whole. It was the way Danarius called him his "little wolf" and insinuated that Hawke was only jealous. IIRC, Fenris has a banter with Sebastian where Seb says, "I know he made you do things." Of course, I might just be interpreting it completely wrong.

And I'm not even going to touch that "sexual abuse made me gay" excuse. It's as derisory as Anders turning gay because of demon possession. Just no. It's bad enough that some places in our world want to exorcise us of our homosexuality.

#59
SirEuain

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Yes...... Gosh thank you! I'm not the only one who get all... when Danarius call Fenris "my little pet". (or something like that). 

I know there's something going on between the two, I just know it! 


To say nothing of the obvious: Fenris clearly wants Danarius dead, and while he is willing to wait years for that opportunity, Fenris isn't going chasing for Danarius in Tevinter. While there's always the chance Fenris could change his mind, it's Danarius who does the seeking. This, despite Danarius being portrayed as a mage of such influence and ability that he can come and go as he pleases in Kirkwall, and capable of remaking Leto into Fenris in the first place.

In other words, barring the ritual creating Fenris being difficult to replicate, Danarius could just leave him be and make another just like him. Danarius does refer to Fenris as his property, but I don't recall him saying word one about the lyrium, just Fenris. Danarius even ignores any opportunity to experiment on Leto's sister, which further implies that he's not interested primarily in the brands, but in the man.

#60
SirEuain

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Trophonius wrote...

And I'm not even going to touch that "sexual abuse made me gay" excuse. It's as derisory as Anders turning gay because of demon possession. Just no. It's bad enough that some places in our world want to exorcise us of our homosexuality.


Oh, no, I don't believe that -- if anything, I meant to make it clear my perspective was that the effect such had on Fenris was that Fenris reacted by consciously focusing on hatred and revenge over anything sexual or romantic.

#61
fluorine7

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LOL ~~~ I was just kind of sort of have the feeling on a subconscious level. But now that you put it this way....I just have to draw a Fenris/Danarius fan painting to fulfill it.

#62
Gavinthelocust

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Can people not be bisexual just because they are? None of them(or at least the ones from Origins) ever stated they were exclusive to any gender so it shouldn't be a problem.

#63
Blacklash93

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SirEuain wrote...

Trophonius wrote...

And I'm not even going to touch that "sexual abuse made me gay" excuse. It's as derisory as Anders turning gay because of demon possession. Just no. It's bad enough that some places in our world want to exorcise us of our homosexuality.


Oh, no, I don't believe that -- if anything, I meant to make it clear my perspective was that the effect such had on Fenris was that Fenris reacted by consciously focusing on hatred and revenge over anything sexual or romantic.

There's a banter where Isabela is fantasizing about Fenris being *ahem* "subject" to his master's whims and glistening in oil. Image IPB

Fenris' reaction pretty much confirms there was nothing sexual going on.

#64
MPSai

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There's no lore reason, it's all about catering to the player. It was a bit annoying in Origins when the gay romance options were bisexual while the others were straight-only. Why should there be characters one gender can get that the other can't? Especially when romances are basically extra fluff entirely tangential to the plot. And really it's alot easier than having to create specifically gay, straight and bisexual characters.

Really people need to stop trying to think about how this makes sense in the plot or the world. Why not also question why people who aren't even with you level up from your fighting experience? How merchants will get crafting supplies down in dungeons crawling with zombies and giant spiders? Why the hell does everyone's weapons just float on their backs or why apostates are never caught while carrying big obvious staffs around?

Modifié par MPSai, 24 mars 2011 - 02:39 .


#65
DrFumb1ezX

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I'm just surprised that Hawke hasn't nailed every living thing in Kirkwall, the way he rapes. :lol:
I mean seriously?
Anders- BAM
Isabela- BAM
Merrill- BAM
Fenris- BAM
Zevran- BAM
All the ****s in the Blooming Rose- BAM
Qunari- BAM
Templars- BAM
Mages- BAM
Spiders- BAM
Dragons- BAM
That one guy who looks at you funny across the bar spouting poetry-BAM

And so on and so forth.:P

#66
Emperor Iaius I

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vlyms1 wrote...
Merrill: ??? This one I really can't imagine beeing Bi, I mean the Dalish have a tradition for maintaining elven blood or something, and can't see her as Bi...



Err, it's not like humans have ever gone against their society's traditions and mores. . . ?

This goes for everybody, but I don't think you can try to break down a person's sexuality by logic or deduction. It doesn't work that way. You can't find a reason for somebody's sexuality anymore than you can predict what their favorite color would be.

#67
Kawamura

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Emperor Iaius I wrote...

vlyms1 wrote...
Merrill: ??? This one I really can't imagine beeing Bi, I mean the Dalish have a tradition for maintaining elven blood or something, and can't see her as Bi...



Err, it's not like humans have ever gone against their society's traditions and mores. . . ?

This goes for everybody, but I don't think you can try to break down a person's sexuality by logic or deduction. It doesn't work that way. You can't find a reason for somebody's sexuality anymore than you can predict what their favorite color would be.


Not only that, but people keep forgetting that gay folks and bi folks can still have kids.

It's  not that hard. In fact, I always figured that my gay Hawke would get married to a woman eventually because he's the heir to his family. It would just be part of the marriage contract that he'd be seeing a man on the side.

#68
Emperor Iaius I

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In point of fact, Merrill expresses concern at what her clan would think of a romance with male Hawke, given that hybrid children actually just end up being human. This concern doesn't exist with female Hawke.

#69
Malja

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Maclimes wrote...

Anders and Isabela are bisexual. That is, they are aware of having feelings for members of both genders, and have relations with them in the past.

Fenris and Merrill are, until they meet Hawke, asexual. They don't flirt, they don't have any sexual past. They are not straight, gay, or bisexual. They're more like a child before he discovers girls (or boys, or both). In short, they're not bisexual, they simply haven't thought about it or figured it out yet.
But when Hawke expresses interest, and relations are properly maintained, they fall in love and become gay or straight, depending on who is who. In essence, they are Hawke-o-sexual.

Sebastian is simply straight.


Just a note... Fenris sleeps with Isabela if unromanced.

#70
fluorine7

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Malja wrote...

Just a note... Fenris sleeps with Isabela if unromanced.


what? where did he say that? I totally missed that banter. 

I wonder if his past flash back when he's doing it with Isabella.... 

#71
hoorayforicecream

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SirEuain wrote...
Merrill... Merrill I disagree on. I think Merrill isn't asexual so much as incredibly shy and completely convinced that her life, while not worthless, is of less value than others'. Playing through with Merrill, I got the feeling that she had a crush on Hawke almost from the start. I don't think Merrill was ignorant of her bisexuality, so much as she was just unconfident in herself and trying to keep it quiet to avoid embarassment -- even if you flirt with her exclusively, she's surprised when Hawke picks her.


I saw it as the classic first-love syndrome. Merrill is an outcast among her own people, and super duper lonely because she really had nobody care for her at all. She grew up completely alone, and so when the first person to truly treat her with some respect and acceptance came along, she emotionally latched on like a barnacle. People like that tend to become fixated on that first person, sometimes to unhealthy degrees. This is also why she does stuff like declare her love for Hawke after first sex. She's definitely not the type who's had healthy relationships in the past, that's for sure.

(I also think people are buying into Isabela's public mask more than they should. She eventually makes it clear that, as funny as it is to brag about all the stout, strong men on her ship, she very rarely did anything with them. She's a tremendous flirt, and has few hangups about sex or gender, but her only prior romance was with a man. In that sense, at least, she's nearly as inexperienced as Merrill.)


I am pretty sure Isabela's the type who takes pleasure where she can get it. She's got her standards, but she doesn't ascribe any sort of real emotional attachment to sex so she isn't above using it as a tool (e.g. the ultimatum she gave Aveline). You can tell a few things about her, based on her banters with Merrill. She's already told Merrill that she doesn't "make love" (what she does is only skin deep), and that she's had fewer lovers than most think. Getting to know her better means noticing that she's really got a good heart deep down, but is really afraid of hurting other people. This means she keeps everyone else at arm's length, and she uses her facade of being an immense flirt and party girl to do so. In that respect, she's actually quite a lot like Zevran. You can even tell this from her conversations with Hawke... when Act 3 begins, she purposely tries to push Hawke away by separating the two with her talk about Hawke being the champion, and her just being a lying, thieving snake.

#72
Eveangaline

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Emperor Iaius I wrote...

In point of fact, Merrill expresses concern at what her clan would think of a romance with male Hawke, given that hybrid children actually just end up being human. This concern doesn't exist with female Hawke.



With female hawke, they just wait a few years and have an awkward "say fenris, can we borrow some sperm?" talk.

#73
Malja

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fluorine7 wrote...

Malja wrote...

Just a note... Fenris sleeps with Isabela if unromanced.


what? where did he say that? I totally missed that banter. 

I wonder if his past flash back when he's doing it with Isabella.... 


Party banter that went something like:
Isabela: I can't stop thinking about that night.
Fenris: Well I'll see you later then.
Isabela: That was direct.
Fenris: I thought I'd get to the point. Were you expecting flowers?
Isabela: Of course not.
Fenris: Then I'll see you tonight.

#74
DeaHamlet

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Did anyone mention that Danarius makes some implication that Fenris was also a love slave? Talking about how the boy is talented and whatnots... o.O

#75
Malja

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DeaHamlet wrote...

Did anyone mention that Danarius makes some implication that Fenris was also a love slave? Talking about how the boy is talented and whatnots... o.O


Talented as in able to shove his fist through people, you mean? Image IPB