106 réponses à ce sujet

[Khayness]

Badass KotOR 2 robes for everyone!

[hakwea]

Vormaerin wrote...
I'm not saying that the developers couldn't have made different choices.  I'm saying the only reason *your character* has to wear robes is because you are greedy for bonuses.   And those bonuses are the best on robes.  

Do you have any in game evidence of dwarves making enchanted clothes, much less enchanted clothes designed t enhance magical prowess (of which they have none?).   That's a pretty lame market:  psychotic criminals of other races....  I bet there are hundreds of dwarves lining up to import cloth, enchant it and reexport it to these criminals...

The flaw in your logic is that the only thing making gear class specific is the "required to equip" requirements. All gear stats are pretty universal. Yes somethings favor certain classes more then others, but its is pretty universal in the stat buffs. Except for the special set items.  After all all items boost mana and stamina at the same time. Why would a clearly mage only item be enchanted to boost mana?

As to your rp reasons it is pretty faulty as well. How do dalish mages get their gear? Only from the circle? Why then aren't all mages automatically arrested on sight if only robes are made to be good for mages by the circle, and the templars oversee the circle? No apostate has ever enchanted items? How then does the non-robe items, that favor mages, exist? Besides the item bonuses on items have nothing to do with roleplay and everything to do with game design. So it is pretty silly to base IC (In Character) things because of OOC  (Out Of Character) things.

Modifié par hakwea, 24 mars 2011 - 01:40 .

[hakwea]

Vormaerin wrote...

Just being apostate is illegal. Being maleficar is a capital crime. And I didn't say that dwarves would care about who bought their stuff. I said that because it becomes prohibitively expensive to export goods if there is no legal market for them. How easily is Mr. Dwarf Tailor going actually find enough apostates to keep him in business?

There are at least 3 merchants in Kirkwall that deal in black market, directly illegal, or goods oriented for illegal activities. Clearly the illegal goods business is alive and thriving. Your same logic of "expense to import" also applies to the proliferation and careless regard the circle has for such items. Since you say the circle controls mage enchanted goods, why would they give them out to any merchant, evil dooer and random chest in some random cave? Clearly such items sold by almost every merchant in kirkwall would be expensive because only apostates would need to go to merchants outside of the circle to buy circle created goods.

and yes if you actually play DA2 and go through the story any tailor would find enough apostates to keep them in business..

[Guaicow]

[quote]Vormaerin wrote...

[quote]Guaicow wrote...

Again tho, this discussion is pointless, the robes aren't predominant because of a lore based concept. They are there because the developers decided so.[/quote]

There's a difference between the lore and 'the developers said so'?  


[/quote]
[/quote]

yes there is, and your point is?

[Vormaerin]

[quote]Guaicow wrote...

[quote]Vormaerin wrote...

[quote]Guaicow wrote...

Again tho, this discussion is pointless, the robes aren't predominant because of a lore based concept. They are there because the developers decided so.[/quote]

There's a difference between the lore and 'the developers said so'?  


[/quote]
[/quote]

yes there is, and your point is?

[/quote]

Care to explain the difference between the developer created lore and the developer said so in some way that apparently isn't lore?   Both are created entirely by the developers.

[gingerbill]

completely agree with OP , i think those awful robes are more of a problem to the mages than the templars . Why do all mage outfits have to look silly? . Why not do some cool looking robes if it has to be robes , not a bathrobe.

[hakwea]

Vormaerin wrote...
Care to explain the difference between the developer created lore and the developer said so in some way that apparently isn't lore?   Both are created entirely by the developers.

An item having the stat "messy kills". Or "restriction mage". Or "Requires X of Y" is a non-lore thing. We will use the restriction attribute as an example. Take a shield it requires the talent "weapon and shield" in order to equip. In lore anyone would be able to pick up a shield and use it with varying degrees of skill. A mage could pick up a shield and use it in combat if needed. A farmer could, a rogue could etc. Or "restriction: mage" on a helm. If you take that as "lore" then why are mages so hard to find? Templars could just go from village to village puting the "restriction: Mage" hat on everyone and kill/imprison all those that the hat will actually go on. That restriction exists because "the developers said so" and they didn't want anyone but a mage wearing that item (even if they met the mage friendly stat requirements).

What is used as Lore is IC, or In Character, stuff. Things that are there for gameplay mechanics only are not considered lore and termed OOC, or Out Of Character, stuff. Things have to be added to a game for non-lore reasons so it remains a fun and enjoyable experince and because it is a game.

There is no lore reason why I can "jump back in time after I die" aka load a save game. Saving and Loading was created by the developers however, but isn't lore.

Modifié par hakwea, 24 mars 2011 - 02:55 .

[Vormaerin]

hakwea wrote...
and yes if you actually play DA2 and go through the story any tailor would find enough apostates to keep them in business..

Yes, that's true.  The game does have the typical lore breeches for the sake of game play.  Stores being the most common bit of nonsense.   The quantity of foes is another (just imagine if the street gangs of Kirkwall were actually as large as the ones we fight in game.  Hah).  The best, of course, is the ability to throw fireballs in the streets near templars and commoners and no one cares.

The whole idea of tyrannical Meredith locking up all mages and vendors in the streets selling magical tools to any passerby in full view of the templars are logical incompatibilities.  Either the templars aren't actually trying to control apostates (who else would those people be selling to?) or those merchants are only there for gameplay convenience.

[Vormaerin]

hakwea wrote...

Yes, you could say that 'only robes for mages' is game mechanics and not lore.  There's no intrinsic reason I am aware of for wearing robes instead of denim jeans and jackets, but the developers have put every mage in the game in a robe.  Even the Dalish, I think.   So is that lore or game mechanics?

[M8DMAN]

Merci357 wrote...

"Mages wear robes" is one of those tropes I'd love to see go away.

Same. I would also love the see "All Mages use staffs" trope go away too. Battlemage's FTW!

Modifié par M8DMAN, 24 mars 2011 - 02:59 .

[Greig91]

Vormaerin wrote...

Care to explain the difference between the developer created lore and the developer said so in some way that apparently isn't lore?   Both are created entirely by the developers.

Well lore has to be explained right? The robes aren't explained in this game. Well.. other than Anders finding them comfortable. But that doesn't explain why mages prefer robes to other clothing. If comfort is all they're after, then I dare say that wearing a shirt and trousers would be any less comfortable. It would probably be more comfortable.

Hmm I'm going off on a tangent there lol. The OP's point is that the developers put the mages in robes in order to fall in line with everyone else's vision of a dark fantasy world. Like someone else said, it's a dark fantasy trope. Like orcs being the bad guys and dragons spitting fire. It's just the done thing.

[Guaicow]

Greig91 wrote...

Vormaerin wrote...

Care to explain the difference between the developer created lore and the developer said so in some way that apparently isn't lore?   Both are created entirely by the developers.

Well lore has to be explained right? The robes aren't explained in this game. Well.. other than Anders finding them comfortable. But that doesn't explain why mages prefer robes to other clothing. If comfort is all they're after, then I dare say that wearing a shirt and trousers would be any less comfortable. It would probably be more comfortable.

Hmm I'm going off on a tangent there lol. The OP's point is that the developers put the mages in robes in order to fall in line with everyone else's vision of a dark fantasy world. Like someone else said, it's a dark fantasy trope. Like orcs being the bad guys and dragons spitting fire. It's just the done thing.

yeah but does it have to be that way?

don't you find robes uncool compared to other gear?

varric's clothing, isabela's clothing and even merril's clothing (which aren't robes btw) are cooler than any robe in the game.

am I alone on that?

[hakwea]

Vormaerin wrote...
Yes, you could say that 'only robes for mages' is game mechanics and not lore.  There's no intrinsic reason I am aware of for wearing robes instead of denim jeans and jackets, but the developers have put every mage in the game in a robe.  Even the Dalish, I think.   So is that lore or game mechanics?

http://dragonage.wik...Merrilarmor.jpg

Isn't a robe. There are also other characters in DA2 that are mages that don't wear robes. A mage related to a family related act 2 quest doesn't wear robes. Sandal isn't a mage but he does have "magic" and doesn't wear a robe. The champions armor isn't a robe. Not to mention arcane warriors at all whose entire lore revolves around not wearing robes.

Are you actually trying to suggest that all robes in Thedas can only be put on by people that have X magic and X willpower? And no one can even hold a shield in their hands without having trained for "weapon and shield"? I don't get why you seem to be this obtuse about what is gameplay and what is lore when you even make a post saying somethings are only there for gameplay.

[tmp7704]

Maybe they wear robes because that's what their current fashion happens to be. Can't imagine why anyone would wear the condom hats otherwise.

[Gentleman Moogle]

In the old days (The REALLY old days), the prevailing reason for mages wearing robes was that they couldn't touch metal and cast spells at the same time, supposedly because the nature of the metal reacted violently with arcane power and would cause the mage to convert part or all of his mass into heat energy. This was back in, like, 1st edition D&D.

Ever since then, mages have been wearing robes, whether it made sense or not.

I agree with whoever said this trope needs to die. It's old, it doesn't make any sense within the lore of most games, and the best reasoning anyone can give for its continued existence is "Because that's the way it's always been!"

[Crossroads_Wanderer]

 From DAOA:

Anders: Oh, you don't know the story behind the robes? You know how strict things are in the Circle, right? Of course you do. Well, the robes make quick trysts in the corner easy. No laces or buttons. You're done before the templars catch on.



Though I suppose this doesn't explain why apostates wear robes.

[Altima Darkspells]

The question is, why isn't rogue and/or warrior man-Hawke wearing more dresses?

After all, skirts conquered the world. You either went into battle wearing one or nothing at all. That's what real combat specialists wore.

[Deylar]

I don't mind the robes. Just make them look cooler. More combat like.

Like the old robes.

The Tevinter Mages robe were not bad, from Origins:



I was looking all the bloody damn where to see if I could find Robes like those in the god damn game of DA2.

But I then settled with the Overseer Robes because they are cool and look like bad ass red leather.

[Gentleman Moogle]

Personally, I think Hawke should go all Celtic on Kirkwall's ass and go into battle naked.

[Shannara13]

Guaicow wrote...

yeah but does it have to be that way?

don't you find robes uncool compared to other gear?

varric's clothing, isabela's clothing and even merril's clothing (which aren't robes btw) are cooler than any robe in the game.

am I alone on that?

Robes can be extremely cool looking. Sadly Bioware's art designers suck at robes. The only decent ones they have ever made are Jedi Robes and they can't really take credit for those since they took the designs from the movies.

[Shannara13]

Example of cool looking robes.

Modifié par Shannara13, 24 mars 2011 - 07:33 .

[marshalleck]

Guaicow wrote...
 i oversimplificated to emphacize my wrath.

Okay, George.

[Deylar]

Shannara13 wrote...

There is an issue with this one.

You forget Bioware's designer is crappy with hoods too. And always make your character look bald or something because of it.

They can't seem to pull off a Fable 2 and 3, where hair comes out of a hood or hat. And your natural hair too.

[Shannara13]

Deylar wrote...

Shannara13 wrote...

There is an issue with this one.

You forget Bioware's designer is crappy with hoods too. And always make your character look bald or something because of it.

They can't seem to pull off a Fable 2 and 3, where hair comes out of a hood or hat. And your natural hair too.

I had blocked it out since the mage hats from DA:O gave me nightmares.

[Ryzaki]

Why should a man of Hawke's stature have to wear a dress?

Easy access.