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Nice Hawke Believes in Andraste?

Débuté par Guest_iOnlySignIn_* , mars 24 2011 01:48

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#1
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 01:48

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So I was playing a 'nice' Hawke instead of a 'sarcastic' one for a change. I was glad to notice that many of the default dialogues (those that you don't choose via the dialogue wheel, but occurs automatically) are different from the sarcastic version - a really nice touch, and evidence against the believe that the dialogue wheel system offers less variety than its DA:O counterpart. In fact, it provides consistency for a better RP experience.

What really surprised (and annoyed) me is that Hawke's battle cries are changed as well. Sarcastic Rogue Hawke would say "Fixing the problems in this world one death at a time!", but my Nice Mage Hawke would say "May Andraste guide you!"

I mean, seriously? First of all, this battle cry is uttered after enemies are killed. So Hawke wants Andraste to guide her enemies (which can happen to be a Rage Demon/Revenant/Quentin)? Secondly, when did I ever show any sign that my Hawke believes in Andraste at all? Did BioWare assume that because my Hawke is nice, so she has to be religious? There is very little correlation between the two as far as I know.

And last but certainly not least, why Andraste? Why can't my Hawke be Unitarian (The Maker is real, Andraste is but a woman)? Or worship the Old Gods? Or the Creators? Or follow the Qun? Why does an Apostate Mage refugee from Ferelden feel so devout towards the Chantry that she has to invoke the name of their god after each enemy is slain?

It makes zero sense.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 24 mars 2011 - 01:52 .

#2
wulfsturm
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 01:50

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iOnlySignIn wrote...

So I was playing a 'nice' Hawke instead of a 'sarcastic' one for a change. I was glad to notice that many of the default dialogues (those that you don't choose via the dialogue wheel, but occurs automatically) are different from the sarcastic version - a really nice touch, and evidence against the believe that the dialogue wheel system offers less variety than its DA:O counterpart. In fact, it provides consistency for a better RP experience.

What really surprised (and annoyed) me is that Hawke's battle cries are changed as well. Sarcastic Rogue Hawke would say "Fixing the problems in this world one death at a time!", but my Nice Mage Hawke would say "May Andraste guide you!"

I mean, seriously? First of all, this battle cry is uttered after enemies are killed. So Hawke wants Andraste to guide her enemies (which can happen to be a Rage Demon/Revenant/Quentin)? Secondly, when did I ever show any sign that my Hawke believes in Andraste at all? Did BioWare assume that because my Hawke is nice, so she has to be religious? There is very little correlation between the two as far as I know.

And last but certainly not least, why Andraste? Why can't my Hawke be Unitarian (The Maker is real, Andraste is but a woman)? Or worship the Old Gods? Or the Creators? Or follow the Qun? Why does an Apostate Mage refugee from Ferelden feel so devout towards the Chantry that she has to invoke the name of their god after each enemy is slain?

It makes zero sense.


Welcome to the wonders of organized religion! Enjoy the ride!

#3
errant_knight
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 01:52

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It makes perfect sense. He/she's Ferelden and the Maker/Andraste is who human Fereldens worship. Anything else would be highly unusual. That's pretty much the same as wondering why a medieval person was Catholic.

Modifié par errant_knight, 24 mars 2011 - 01:53 .

#4
Esoj16
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 01:55

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actually it makes perfect sense, considering Hawke grows up in an Andrastian home, Bethany for example seems very devout in some conversations. What would make zero sense would be for Hawke to worship the old gods, or the creators, or be a follower of the Qun, those three options would be ridiculous.

#5
wulfsturm
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 01:56

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Link3521 wrote...

actually it makes perfect sense, considering Hawke grows up in an Andrastian home, Bethany for example seems very devout in some conversations. What would make zero sense would be for Hawke to worship the old gods, or the creators, or be a follower of the Qun, those three options would be ridiculous.


Or be an atheist *shiver* the horror of such a thought.

#6
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 01:57

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errant_knight wrote...

It makes perfect sense. He/she's Ferelden and the Maker/Andraste is who human Fereldens worship. Anything else would be highly unusual. That's pretty much the same as wondering why a medieval person was Catholic.


You have a good point, but I believe it should me made into a choice. When you talk to the Grand Cleric, you have a dialogue option "The Chantry is a sham!" And I don't think I'm the only one who enjoyed Commander Shepard being irreverant towards all authority, religious or not.

They could have easily put this into a dialogue option early in the game, like how they let you name your Dog in Gamelen's House. As it is now, I feel that Hawke's uncustomizeable religious preference hampering my role playing experience.

It is also contradictory if Hawke later sides with the Mages and slaughters the Templars. Imagine her killing off Orsino/Meredith with Hemorrhage and then letting out a sincere cry of "May Andraste Guide you!"

#7
wulfsturm
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 01:59

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iOnlySignIn wrote...

It is also contradictory if Hawke later sides with the Mages and slaughters the Templars. Imagine her killing off Orsino/Meredith with Hemorrhage and then letting out a sincere cry of "May Andraste Guide you!"


Eh? You can still believe in something good, and be a bad person at the same time. Quick example, the Godfather movies.

#8
gelfie
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:00

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This bugged me too. Leave the religious battle-cries for those who choose to play Andraste-botherers. ;)

Contextually speaking, my Hawke is an Apostate Mage and neither she nor any of the family shows any regard for the Chantry. There is nothing usual about an Apostate Mage especially when mine appears to be the only one in town who has not turned to blood magic or is otherwise stark-staring bonkers.

@Errant_Knight: Catholicism is not nor ever has been the only choice of religion for people of any period in history.

Modifié par gelfie, 24 mars 2011 - 02:03 .

#9
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:00

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Link3521 wrote...

actually it makes perfect sense, considering Hawke grows up in an Andrastian home, Bethany for example seems very devout in some conversations. What would make zero sense would be for Hawke to worship the old gods, or the creators, or be a follower of the Qun, those three options would be ridiculous.


My Mage Hawke is an Apostate, so why can't she have doubts about a religion which advocates hunting and killing her kind? You could side with a terrorist who blows up a church along with the Grand Cleric, but could not have a bit of religious doubt?

And Saemus Dumar converted to the Qun despite being brought up in an Andrastian family. Hawke has arguably more dealings with the Qunari than even Saemus. I was disappointed that Hawke wasn't given the choice to convert to the Qun. And my Mage Hawke Friendship-Romanced Merrill, so she has perfectly good reason to worship the Creators. I can even come up with reasons why Hawke might want to worship the Old Gods: she/he is a Blood Mage who longs to be like a Tevinter Magister of old and believes that Magic comes from the Old Gods.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 24 mars 2011 - 02:05 .

#10
Esoj16
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:04

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iOnlySignIn wrote...

Link3521 wrote...

actually it makes perfect sense, considering Hawke grows up in an Andrastian home, Bethany for example seems very devout in some conversations. What would make zero sense would be for Hawke to worship the old gods, or the creators, or be a follower of the Qun, those three options would be ridiculous.


My Mage Hawke is an Apostate, so why can't she have doubts about a religion which advocates hunting and killing her kind? You could side with a terrorist who blows up a church along with the Grand Cleric, but could not have a bit of religious doubt?

And Saemus Dumar converted to the Qun despite being brought up in an Andrastian family. Hawke has arguably more dealings with the Qunari than even Saemus. I was disappointed that Hawke wasn't given the choice to convert to the Qun.


I'm not saying you can't "have doubts" that's fair game, but nice Hawke being a devout Andrastian like the rest of his family makes perfect sense.  The other options you listed make no sense, I mean sure your Hawke could convert to the teachings of the Qun but that would have to be after you reach Kirkwall since I doubt Hawke had any exposure to their culture before that.

#11
Emperor Iaius I
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:06

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This is why my notionally Old God-worshipping, blood mage Hawke always uses the mean responses. :P

#12
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:07

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wulfsturm wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

It is also contradictory if Hawke later sides with the Mages and slaughters the Templars. Imagine her killing off Orsino/Meredith with Hemorrhage and then letting out a sincere cry of "May Andraste Guide you!"


Eh? You can still believe in something good, and be a bad person at the same time. Quick example, the Godfather movies.


Good point. But then I'd have to play my Hawke as a religious hypocrite, which I don't want to. I just want to play her as a nice person who is nice because she wants to be, not because an invisible friend tells her to.

#13
wulfsturm
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:08

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iOnlySignIn wrote...

Good point. But then I'd have to play my Hawke as a religious hypocrite, which I don't want to. I just want to play her as a nice person who is nice because she wants to be, not because an invisible friend tells her to.


Well, perhaps you should be making your own games then if you want certain aspects to be present in them.

#14
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:11

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Emperor Iaius I wrote...

This is why my notionally Old God-worshipping, blood mage Hawke always uses the mean responses. :P

Gah. Why can't Hawke be a nice, upstanding Blood Mage who uses Blood Magic to Heal and help people?

:blush:

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 24 mars 2011 - 02:14 .

#15
Esoj16
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:12

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As a side note, Anders is actually an Andrastian himself, he says he believes in the Maker and in Andraste's teachings but he thinks the Chantry has corrupted them and it is now the Chantry the one that is "foul and corrupt" for turning the gift of magic against "His children"

#16
Esoj16
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:13

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iOnlySignIn wrote...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

This is why my notionally Old God-worshipping, blood mage Hawke always uses the mean responses. :P

Gah. Why can't Hawke be a nice, upstanding Blood Mage who uses Blood Magic to Heal and help people?

:devil:


Sorry but blood magic and helping people just don't go together, look at what happens to Merril when she tries to be a nice blood mage :unsure:

#17
Guest_thurmanator692_*
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:14

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Being an apostate doesnt really mean you can't be Andrastrian, just look at anders. they see the issue in the man-made chantry, not the deity themself. Furthermore, for those of you who complain about the lack of consistancy about being an open apostate in a city full o templars, openly following the Qun, Creators, or Old Gods would be the very excuse Meredith would need to lock you up in the Gallows. or kill you. depending on her disposition that day.

#18
Ryzaki
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:15

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Regardless of how much sense it makes if I can run around using bloodmagic and no one gives a damn I should be able to be an atheist.

Player choice.

#19
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:17

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You could just take it as a figure of speech, like any atheist in the US might say "damn it" or "go to hell" while not actually believing in the concepts of damnation or an afterlife.

#20
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:17

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thurmanator692 wrote...

Being an apostate doesnt really mean you can't be Andrastrian, just look at anders. they see the issue in the man-made chantry, not the deity themself. Furthermore, for those of you who complain about the lack of consistancy about being an open apostate in a city full o templars, openly following the Qun, Creators, or Old Gods would be the very excuse Meredith would need to lock you up in the Gallows. or kill you. depending on her disposition that day.


Who says anything about openly? I'd rather Hawke's battle cries don't contain ANY religious connotations at all.

OK, I'll just think that Hawke pretends to be a devout Andrastian then. Thanks for your inspiration. ;-)

#21
wulfsturm
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:17

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Ryzaki wrote...

Regardless of how much sense it makes if I can run around using bloodmagic and no one gives a damn I should be able to be an atheist.

Player choice.


Didn't anyone ever tell you? There are no nice athiests.

#22
Ryzaki
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:19

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wulfsturm wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Regardless of how much sense it makes if I can run around using bloodmagic and no one gives a damn I should be able to be an atheist.

Player choice.


Didn't anyone ever tell you? There are no nice athiests.


...apparently. =]

#23
Talladarr
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:19

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Agnostic's the way to go ;)

#24
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:20

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wulfsturm wrote...

Didn't anyone ever tell you? There are no nice athiests.

Yeah. BioWare sort of told me that. That's why I wrote this post. Sorry if I sounded whiney.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sideways.png[/smilie]

Filament wrote...

You could just take it as a figure of speech, like any atheist in the US might say "damn it" or "go to hell" while not actually believing in the concepts of damnation or an afterlife.

You could say that, but the way Jo Wyatt delivers that line tells you otherwise. She sounds genuinely devout to me.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 24 mars 2011 - 02:23 .

#25
Emperor Iaius I
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 02:22

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That means she's REALLY good at being sarcastic but making it convincing.
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