110 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Talladarr wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Naitaka wrote...
What? Merrill's Eluvian was the one found in the Bercillian Forest during the Dalish Elf Origin. It's been corrupted by the Darkspawn taint and was smashed into little pieces by Duncan. The one Morrigan used was a working Eluvian under the Dragonbone Waste.

This is correct. Does Merrill not explain that she's painstakingly reconstructed the mirror using the shard?

Mr. Gaider how does Duncan smash the mirror if he was seeking other recruits in different origins? Do all the Origins happen at different times? Like some origins are weeks apart from others?

All of the Origin events happen, it's just that everyone that doesn't become the warden dies

no no no. I know they all happen. I'm wondering how Duncan could've been in two places at once, where he was the one who broke the mirror. Merrill says in banter that she met duncan, in non DE imports The only logical conclusion I can make is that they all happen at different points in time.

and then how come the Dwarf Noble and Dwarf Commoner don't both become Wardens? If Duncan was in Orzammar, the DC would've seen Duncan at the Proving. Duncan would've recognized his talent like he does in the Origin. Beraht somehow dies by his Carta members, but I'm so confused. Bah I don't know how to explain this but there are a bunch of things that plague my mind about the origin stories.

edit: now I'm wondering how these new Eluvians can be used as portals when they're so tiny! Mr. Gaider, you guys are evil making me see these things where I then think these confusing thoughts.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 24 mars 2011 - 05:09 .

[David Gaider]

TheBlackBaron wrote...
She does. I think the question is more "How did she rebuild it if the mirror from the DE origin was still in its original place in WH?", Mr. Gaider. Did she gather up all the little broken pieces and put them back together or somehow create the missing parts using her shard?

I think it's already been mentioned, but as I recall the Eluvian in Witch Hunt is not the Eluvian in the Dalish Origin. There are multiple such mirrors, as they were used for communication -- or at least that's the supposition. I believe this is mentioned in both Origins and Witch Hunt.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
and then how come the Dwarf
Noble and Dwarf Commoner don't both become Wardens? If Duncan was in
Orzammar, the DC would've seen Duncan at the Proving. Duncan would've
recognized his talent like he does in the Origin. Beraht somehow
dies by his Carta members, but I'm so confused. Bah I don't know how to
explain this but there are a bunch of things that plague my mind about
the origin stories.

It's quite simple. If you didn't play the Dalish Origin, then at some point Duncan still went to the Dalish clan looking for recruits-- he didn't find one.

Modifié par David Gaider, 24 mars 2011 - 05:09 .

[Talladarr]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Naitaka wrote...
What? Merrill's Eluvian was the one found in the Bercillian Forest during the Dalish Elf Origin. It's been corrupted by the Darkspawn taint and was smashed into little pieces by Duncan. The one Morrigan used was a working Eluvian under the Dragonbone Waste.

This is correct. Does Merrill not explain that she's painstakingly reconstructed the mirror using the shard?

Mr. Gaider how does Duncan smash the mirror if he was seeking other recruits in different origins? Do all the Origins happen at different times? Like some origins are weeks apart from others?

All of the Origin events happen, it's just that everyone that doesn't become the warden dies

no no no. I know they all happen. I'm wondering how Duncan could've been in two places at once, where he was the one who broke the mirror. Merrill says in banter that she met duncan, in non DE imports The only logical conclusion I can make is that they all happen at different points in time.

and then how come the Dwarf Noble and Dwarf Commoner don't both become Wardens? If Duncan was in Orzammar, the DC would've seen Duncan at the Proving. Duncan would've recognized his talent like he does in the Origin. Beraht somehow dies by his Carta members, but I'm so confused. Bah I don't know how to explain this but there are a bunch of things that plague my mind about the origin stories.

edit: now I'm wondering how these new Eluvians can be used as portals when they're so tiny! Mr. Gaider, you guys are evil making me see these things where I then think these confusing thoughts.

I think I understand your point. I think it's just that Duncan's timing is a bit off for those ones, and so he misses them. Who knows the reason

[The Angry One]

With no Dalish origin, nobody in DA2 even mentions Tamlen and some other, just Tamlen.
So I just assume that the person that would've been you just never existed. Tamlen went alone. Duncan goes there just the same and finds no one eligible to be a Warden.

[TEWR]

wait.... does he go there with the recruit he did pick up? Because he says they're going straight to Ostagar, so they do happen at different times I guess.

now I'm even more confuzled.

that's it. time to drop this confusing subject from my memory banks. AND......




deleted.

[TEWR]

The Angry One wrote...

With no Dalish origin, nobody in DA2 even mentions Tamlen and some other, just Tamlen.
So I just assume that the person that would've been you just never existed. Tamlen went alone. Duncan goes there just the same and finds no one eligible to be a Warden.

actually, Merrill says to Marethari that she too was heartbroken over the loss of Mahariel, in the non DE imports

[The Angry One]

Perhaps it's like

Universe A
Duncan goes to the Dalish, finds recruit. Smashes mirror. Goes directly to Ostagar

Universe B (aka Universe 1 aka the Fighting Mongooses)
Duncan goes to the Dalish, finds no one. Smashes mirror. Goes to Highever/Orzammar/Denerim

[Kartikeya]

There are two separate mirrors in Witch Hunt. The one Morrigan has is the one in the Dragon Bone Wastes, right behind where The Mother was (creepily enough).

But you have to go find a shard of the one that Duncan broke to try to locate Morrigan's. If you're a Dalish Warden, then this is the exact one that tainted you and Tamlen. THIS is the one that Merrill apparently has a piece of, which I presume she sneaks either during that second Origin trip to the cave or at some time before the clan leaves to go north. How she gets the rest of the pieces, I don't know. Actually, I was wondering if the reason she can't make the Eluvian work despite it seemingly being all together is because the Warden had to take a piece to use in the ritual to find Morrigan.

[TheBlackBaron]

David Gaider wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...
She does. I think the question is more "How did she rebuild it if the mirror from the DE origin was still in its original place in WH?", Mr. Gaider. Did she gather up all the little broken pieces and put them back together or somehow create the missing parts using her shard?

I think it's already been mentioned, but as I recall the Eluvian in Witch Hunt is not the Eluvian in the Dalish Origin. There are multiple such mirrors, as they were used for communication -- or at least that's the supposition. I believe this is mentioned in both Origins and Witch Hunt.

I think there were two in Witch Hunt, though - the one Morrigan has and then the one that was in the ruins. The wiki says you pick up a shard from the latter for the whole scrying ritual. 

EDIT: [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/ninja.png[/smilie]'d on that one. 

The Angry One wrote...
Universe B (aka Universe 1 aka the Fighting Mongooses)

Nice. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 24 mars 2011 - 05:21 .

[Kartikeya]

The Angry One wrote...

Perhaps it's like

Universe A
Duncan goes to the Dalish, finds recruit. Smashes mirror. Goes directly to Ostagar

Universe B (aka Universe 1 aka the Fighting Mongooses)
Duncan goes to the Dalish, finds no one. Smashes mirror. Goes to Highever/Orzammar/Denerim

And it would seem in Universe B, Duncan arrives too late to save the possible recruit, or both the PC and Tamlen end up missing because Duncan wasn't there to find the PC outside the cave. I always found it neat that in Origins, all of the actual origin events do happen, and the only difference is whether or not Duncan was there to recruit them.

[The Angry One]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

actually, Merrill says to Marethari that she too was heartbroken over the loss of Mahariel, in the non DE imports

Really? When? Never come across that.

[Kartikeya]

She says it in the DE imports too. Merrill is apparently not sure of all the details of what happened to the Dalish Warden. I can't remember which conversation with Marethari that is. I think it's the last one, if you choose to talk to Marethari before going up to the demon cave.

[David Gaider]

TheBlackBaron wrote...
I think there were two in Witch Hunt, though - the one Morrigan has and then the one that was in the ruins. The wiki says you pick up a shard from the latter for the whole scrying ritual. 

Ah, yes. Merrill has but the one shard from that mirror, taken from when she went to the caves looking for Tamlen (and Mahariel, presumably). The remainder was there for the Warden to find.

[TEWR]

All I know is the Origin stories are confusing. How Beraht dies by the DC's hands but the DC is locked in the cell still in other Origins is beyond me. Even more confusing given that the DN was also recruited. Duncan could've had two recruits.

*The events of the DC origin happen before the events of the DN origin
*Beraht is killed by the DC, as no one else would cross Beraht either out of fear of him or devout loyalty (they're one and the same here it seems)
*Duncan is still in Orzammar and has to go into the Deep Roads during the DN mission
*DN gets exiled.
*yet somehow, if I were the DN, the DC is locked up and Beraht is said to have been killed by the DC.

BAH!!

I give up. Trying to sort out the inconsistencies and the confusing details is just going to make it worse. Maybe I should just stick to Duncan recruited them all (somehow meeting Mahariel and the dead dwarf in Jarvia's hideout is someone else) and everyone but the one I'm playing died on the battlefield with the other Grey Wardens and Jory, Daveth, Alistair, and whoever I am never met them.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 24 mars 2011 - 05:34 .

[Naitaka]

You do know that Merrill's "complete" mirror still has a large part missing in the middle? I assume that sshe didn't actually get all the shards, she just got enough that the Demon assured her would make the Mirror "work". The only problem I can see is that. While Alistair refers to the Warden at the beginning of Act 3 (Then WH must have not happened yet, hence the Bercillian Mirror is still in the ruin), Merrill already got the Bercillian Mirror in her house in Act 2. The timing actually doesn't match up there.

As for Duncan, this is how I see it.

If player was a Circle Mage, then Duncan first went to all the other places and found no recuit. He headed to the Circle Tower last and recruited the Warden there, after which they went straight to Ostegar.

Replace circle mage, and Circle Tower, with whichever Origin you started with.

Modifié par Naitaka, 24 mars 2011 - 05:35 .

[TEWR]

Naitaka wrote...


If player was a Circle Mage, then Duncan first went to all the other places and found no recuit. He headed to the Circle Tower last and recruited the Warden there, after which they went straight to Ostegar.

Replace circle mage, and Circle Tower, with whichever Origin you started with.

but in some cases that doesn't make sense. the grey wardens were invited to Orzammar, where they would've met the DN and heard of his/her talents.

*sigh* no matter how much I try to drop it, I won't be able to. I just need  to live with this confusion or hope I somehow figure it all out.

[Bryy_Miller]

Is anyone else concerned that there are at least TWO super power and ancient artifacts all within the same proximity to one another? That's what bothers ME.

[TheBlackBaron]

David Gaider wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...
I think there were two in Witch Hunt, though - the one Morrigan has and then the one that was in the ruins. The wiki says you pick up a shard from the latter for the whole scrying ritual. 

Ah, yes. Merrill has but the one shard from that mirror, taken from when she went to the caves looking for Tamlen (and Mahariel, presumably). The remainder was there for the Warden to find.

Gotcha. So she basically recreates the rest of the eluvian she has in her house during Act II-III from the shard she takes via magic or whatever, I assume?

Or did she just take a really big shard? 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 24 mars 2011 - 05:48 .

[David Gaider]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
but in some cases that doesn't make sense. the grey wardens were invited to Orzammar, where they would've met the DN and heard of his/her talents.

*sigh* no matter how much I try to drop it, I won't be able to. I just need  to live with this confusion or hope I somehow figure it all out.

Prior to finding your Origins character, Duncan went to a number of places looking for recruits. You playing that character meant that a twist of fate brought you to the Grey Wardens. Any other "thread", meanwhile, went a different way and Duncan either never encountered them or they died... whatever the case, your Origins character was the only recruit other than Jory and Daveth that he found.

TheBlackBaron wrote...
Gotcha. So she basically recreates the
rest of the eluvian she has in her house during Act II-III from the
shard she takes via magic or whatever, I assume?

She just has the one shard. She incorporates it into the mirror she builds, extrapolating its construction both from the shard itself and what lore she's been able to collect. Probably why she wasn't able to get it to work.

And who knows? Perhaps that's a good thing.

Modifié par David Gaider, 24 mars 2011 - 05:50 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

Presumably she couldn't find the piece that contains the "on" switch.

Rookie mistake.

[thenemesis77]

David Gaider wrote...

Naitaka wrote...
What? Merrill's Eluvian was the one found in the Bercillian Forest during the Dalish Elf Origin. It's been corrupted by the Darkspawn taint and was smashed into little pieces by Duncan. The one Morrigan used was a working Eluvian under the Dragonbone Waste.

This is correct. Does Merrill not explain that she's painstakingly reconstructed the mirror using the shard?

 

I thnk her story and background was great, I would love to know more about her. IMO, Why they can't find Hawke or The Warden is due to the two Mirrors and thier betterhalfs.

[TEWR]

David Gaider wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
but in some cases that doesn't make sense. the grey wardens were invited to Orzammar, where they would've met the DN and heard of his/her talents.

*sigh* no matter how much I try to drop it, I won't be able to. I just need  to live with this confusion or hope I somehow figure it all out.

Prior to finding your Origins character, Duncan went to a number of places looking for recruits. You playing that character meant that a twist of fate brought you to the Grey Wardens. Any other "thread", meanwhile, went a different way and Duncan either never encountered them or they died... whatever the case, your Origins character was the only recruit other than Jory and Daveth that he found.

ok I think I understand now (at least until something else confuses me and I come on the Bioware forums and share my annoying confusion with other people).

So Duncan could've just been one minute too late when Mahariel died, and went "Welp, time to move on after I destroy this mirror!" or something along those lines? And my playing as an origin gives me say more willpower (not game willpower, but like endurance) and a different persona than if I had chosen some other origin story and the former went on with their own merry lives in some different way?

If so, then I feel the fool. It's like RPG basics 101 isn't it?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 24 mars 2011 - 06:04 .

[David Gaider]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
If so, then I feel the fool. It's like RPG basics 101 isn't it?

It's okay. We'll try not to let it get to the point where we need a Crisis on Infinite Earths to sort it all out.

And that's the nerdiest possible reference I could make at this juncture.

[TEWR]

David Gaider wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
If so, then I feel the fool. It's like RPG basics 101 isn't it?

It's okay. We'll try not to let it get to the point where we need a Crisis on Infinite Earths to sort it all out.

And that's the nerdiest possible reference I could make at this juncture.

I should certainly hope it wouldn't come to that! 

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 22 juillet 2012 - 05:40 .

[LobselVith8]

David Gaider wrote...

She just has the one shard. She incorporates it into the mirror she builds, extrapolating its construction both from the shard itself and what lore she's been able to collect. Probably why she wasn't able to get it to work.

And who knows? Perhaps that's a good thing.  

That's true. I'm guessing Morrigan wouldn't be too happy with Hawke or Merril because of what happened at Sundermount, after all.