110 réponses à ce sujet

[Aramintai]

Talladarr wrote...
One thing everyone keeps forgetting, is the size comparitively. The whole mirror form the ruins was huge, easilly 8 feet tall (assuming the elf characters are 5 foot-ish) and was muc hwider as well, I'd gues 3.5-4 feet. Merrill's mirror in her house in DA2 is TINY by comparison, only barely reachign the top of Hawke's head and that's with a stand. It's more liek a mirror you'd hang on a wall now. All that "extra mirror" was left behind in the uins for the warden, Finn and Ariane to find.

Yea, exactly. So how does one fix it without all those other extra parts? It just doesn't seem that Merrill knew how to fix it at all, that's all. She should have asked the demon how to fix it in the first place (if it even can be fixed from one shard), not just cleanse one shard.

Modifié par Aramintai, 24 mars 2011 - 07:49 .

[Talladarr]

Aramintai wrote...
Yea, exactly. So how does one fix it without all those other extra parts? It just doesn't seem that Merrill knew how to fix it at all, that's all. She should have asked the demon how to fix it in the first place (if it even can be fixed from one shard), not just cleanse one shard.

Also, dont' forget, she took the shard WITH her to the Free Marches, as the Spirit she made the deal with was sealed up in Sundermount. Likely, she took all she could, but got the spirit to show her how to do the rest. Likely it showed her some magic that allowed her fuse a couple fractured pieces seamlessly. the part you have to remember, however, was that she didn't get it fixed right away. She spent years trying to fix it on her own, but just couldn't do it, It was only THEN that she turned to the spirit.

[Aramintai]

So, let me get this straight, Merrill though that fusing the cleansed shard with the rest of the ordinary mirror would result in a working eluvian? It reads something like this: "I've fixed the broken wheel, now if I just attach it to the wagon I will get a car."

[LobselVith8]

Aramintai wrote...

I still don't get some things about Merrill's mirror. The one she has in Act 2 is definitely the corrupted one from the Brecilian Forest. However when the Warden, Finn and and Ariane went there to perform a ritual to track down a working eluvian in the Dragonbone Wastes it was still there, smashed to pieces as it were. Merrill and her clan were long gone to Kirkwall by that time. I seem to recall it was said that she took only one shard, so how she was able to reconstruct the whole mirror from it?

David Gaider mentioned that Merrill only picked up one shard of the broken Eluvian (on the second page of this thread). He mentioned Merrill picked up a shard of the broken mirror when she initially headed to find some sign of the missing Dalish clan members (which we see in the Dalish Origin, but it happens regardless of who the Hero of Ferelden is). The mirror she created was basically a makeshift mirror with the shard included, and she used lore she found to try to create an Eluvian from scratch.

Aramintai wrote...

She magically melted it with the usual glass or something? Can it even work with only one shard intact? I don't think it can. And it seems to me that Merrill had no faintest idea how to fix it or she wouldn't have stumbled in the dark for so many years trying to figure it out. Just a waste of time, mixed with a good deal of foolishness and pride.

It's an ancient device that even the Magisters of the Tevinter Imperium weren't able to fully utilize, except for long distance communication. Merrill is heading into uncharted territory trying to reconstruct the Eluvian in the first place. Why is it foolish of Merrill to try to restore a part of the People's culture and history?

[Talladarr]

That's not what I meant. Obviously she couldn't have grabbed one piece(like she said she did) and have it look like that. I thin kthat once she got the spirit to help cleanse it she boke it into multiple pieces and used blood magic to seamlessly fuse the pieces together to make it a more perfect shape. Does that make more sense?

[Aramintai]

Talladarr wrote... Does that make more sense?

No, it doesn't. Especially considering that most Dalish don't even know what "Eluvian" means let alone possess the lore of fixing it. 

[Talladarr]

That's what the Spirit was for >.<
It not only knew what it was, but also how to fix it. Merrill only recognized it form a picture, the word, and the elvish design.

[LobselVith8]

Aramintai wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Does that make more sense?

No, it doesn't. Especially considering that most Dalish don't even know what "Eluvian" means let alone possess the lore of fixing it. 

This was addressed on page two.

David Gaider wrote...

She just has the one shard. She incorporates it into the mirror she builds, extrapolating its construction both from the shard itself and what lore she's been able to collect. Probably why she wasn't able to get it to work.

[Aramintai]

David Gaider wrote...

She just has the one shard. She incorporates it into the mirror she builds, extrapolating its construction both from the shard itself and what lore she's been able to collect. Probably why she wasn't able to get it to work.

Right, so can you extrapolate how to make a working car from a wheel and a picture? Shows just how foolish Merrill really is. 

[Edge2177]

I still feel Merril's Eluvian will have a role to play in the future. She didn't destroy it at the end of Act 3, there's some significance in that.

[Edge2177]

Aramintai wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

She just has the one shard. She incorporates it into the mirror she builds, extrapolating its construction both from the shard itself and what lore she's been able to collect. Probably why she wasn't able to get it to work.

Right, so can you extrapolate how to make a working car from a wheel and a picture? Shows just how foolish Merrill really is. 

She contacted the demon exactly for that reason, he told her how to get started in an effort that the demon would likely have used the mirror itself to come into this world and/or possess Merrill.

[Aramintai]

Edge2177 wrote...

I still feel Merril's Eluvian will have a role to play in the future. She didn't destroy it at the end of Act 3, there's some significance in that.

She did if she's a rival.
Watch this:
www.youtube.com/watch

What a waste of time. But at least you can set her right.

Modifié par Aramintai, 24 mars 2011 - 10:59 .

[Shorinjikan]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

they all have welsh, but hers is a lot clearer to hear.

She is the only welsh elf I heard.  The rest of the Dalish had horrible irish accents.  Not that I hated them for being irish, per se, but they were all incredibly rude.

They went from being "noble" free elves to irish travellers who won't leave...<_<

[TEWR]

they're a bunch of mooching bums who let their fears get the worst of them and refuse to accept the truth, however harsh.

I did Merrill a favor by rescuing her from those idiots. Even had she given up on the mirror and blood magic, the clan would never have looked at her the same way.

then again, I guess Marethari purposely kept the clan there to sort of "protect" Merrill. still, I'm glad I rescued her from those idiots.

[WhiteKnyght]

David Gaider wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
but in some cases that doesn't make sense. the grey wardens were invited to Orzammar, where they would've met the DN and heard of his/her talents.

*sigh* no matter how much I try to drop it, I won't be able to. I just need  to live with this confusion or hope I somehow figure it all out.

Prior to finding your Origins character, Duncan went to a number of places looking for recruits. You playing that character meant that a twist of fate brought you to the Grey Wardens. Any other "thread", meanwhile, went a different way and Duncan either never encountered them or they died... whatever the case, your Origins character was the only recruit other than Jory and Daveth that he found.

That corpse in the cell in the Carta's hideout. Was that the dwarf commoner? Cause Leske was in the other cell and said his friend stopped eating on a bet.(A stupid thing to do.)

[Avissel]

The Grey Nayr wrote...
That corpse in the cell in the Carta's hideout. Was that the dwarf commoner? Cause Leske was in the other cell and said his friend stopped eating on a bet.(A stupid thing to do.)

He didn't stop eating ona bet, he said the whole situation was "Because of a stupid bet" Refering to how you had to rig the Proveings.

Basically it goes like this, whatever origin you are NOT playing, Duncan does not show up at the one moment where he saves your life.

Human Noble: Killed by the Howes.
Human/Elf mage: Ethier made Tranquil for helping Jowan, or possibly just left in the cirlce and killed later.
City Elf: Killed by the City Guard, or Vaughan
Noble Dwarf: Died in the deep roads
Dwarf Commoner: Died in the Carta Hideout
Dalish Elf: Died of the Taint.

[TEWR]

ahuevocabron wrote...

So she never actually gets it to work, does she? And you inevitably still have to wipe out al the dalish?

you can take responsibility for merrill's actions after her final companion quest and the Dalish will let you go reluctantly.

bring her back there though, and they will attack you immediately.

[Alyka]

Merrill spoke with a demon who cleansed the shard that she had.As Mr. Gaider said, she used other materials and spells or ritual to construct a bigger mirror along with the shard.So I'm guessing it would be like taking a door from a 1970's Cadillac and putting it on a mini Cooper.The car won't drive like a Cadillac, it's going to run like a mini Cooper.

Modifié par Alyka, 24 mars 2011 - 06:52 .

[Vukodlak]

Pasicrates wrote...

I'm probably wrong, but I've found a
small plot hole. In the Witch Hunt DLC, you find the Eluvian used by the
Dales in the same spot. This was two and a half years after Origins or
Awakening. However, one year after the Blight, Merrill has the mirror.

Answers?

The mirror doesn't appear until ACTII which is your forth year in Kirkwall
and three years after the blight.

Avissel wrote... Basically it goes like this, whatever origin you are NOT playing, Duncan does not show up at the one moment where he saves your life.

It is possible that some of them survived but unlikely.

Avissel wrote... Human Noble: Killed by the Howes.

Possibly, you make it to the larder before ever meeting Duncan. So its possible The Human Noble could have escaped Highever.

Avissel wrote... Human/Elf mage: Ethier made Tranquil for helping Jowan, or possibly just left in the cirlce and killed later.

Its ilegal to make a mage Tranquil once he's past his Harrowing, so that fate is unlikely. I'd wager imprisonment, death during Uldreds revolt or was part of the mage army marching out of the tower.

Avissel wrote... City Elf: Killed by the City Guard, or Vaughan

Most probable, though the city elfs father never makes mention of a lost child.

Avissel wrote... Noble Dwarf: Died in the deep roads

Most certainly

Avissel wrote... Dwarf Commoner: Died in the Carta Hideout

And the only time you get to see a body for absolute proof.

Avissel wrote... Dalish Elf: Died of the Taint.

Yep, the second death we can be absolutely sure of.

Modifié par Vukodlak, 24 mars 2011 - 07:15 .

[LobselVith8]

Foolsfolly wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dwarven Commoner is dead from starvation, so it took place some time ago.

I'm pretty sure the Dwarf Commoner's dead during the Orzammar main quest and not during the Dwarf Noble origin.

I thought it was about when the Warden came back to Orzammar. This should teach me not to respond to posts at 3 in the morning.

Aramintai wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

She just has the one shard. She incorporates it into the mirror she builds, extrapolating its construction both from the shard itself and what lore she's been able to collect. Probably why she wasn't able to get it to work.

Right, so can you extrapolate how to make a working car from a wheel and a picture? Shows just how foolish Merrill really is. 

Since you have no idea precisely what lore Merrill had at hand to actually extrapolate the shard to re-create the Eluvian, why do you assume it's foolish? The Keeper clearly thought she might actually succeed, after all, which concerned her.

[Addai]

Aha, she reconstructed it- I was wracking my brain trying to figure out how she got it, too. Maybe because Hawke says "tell me you didn't bring the killer mirror all the way here just because it's pretty" so I was running on that track. But it all makes sense now.

Modifié par Addai67, 24 mars 2011 - 07:24 .

[MadDjinn]

Everyone dies but you, that was fairly certain. 
- City-Elf dies or is just beaten down (mentally) and it's unlikely to be mentioned by the father to an outsider.
- Mage died in the Harrowing/got possessed and killed.  No reason to mention it to anyone else since everyone is busy with the Uldred issue.
- Howes get the human noble in any number of ways.  Duncan couldn't convince you to leave, you get wiped during the fighting, etc.

The 'core philosophy' in there seemed to be that your 'origin' was the only one with 'something more' and could make the right decisions to survive the origin.  No one else had that extra bit.

As per the mirror:
It's been said enough, about how she got a piece of it and your warden just found that which remained of the same mirror.  It was all about the spirit in sundermount that got her the ability to start working with it.  Yeah, she's dumb, but that didn't mean it wouldn't work given that she was going back to the spirit in the last quest to 'finish it' and the keeper purposely sacrificed herself to ensure it wouldn't happen.

I'm only slightly worried that the Lead Writer took a few posts before remembering what was in the scripts/history before going with the obvious answer.

Vukodlak wrote...

Pasicrates wrote...

[...]

Answers?

The mirror doesn't appear until ACTII which is your forth year in Kirkwall
and three years after the blight.

It is possible that some of them survived but unlikely.
[... trimmed for sane response post length ...]
Yep, the second death we can be absolutely sure of.

Modifié par MadDjinn, 24 mars 2011 - 08:15 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

Aramintai wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

She just has the one shard. She incorporates it into the mirror she builds, extrapolating its construction both from the shard itself and what lore she's been able to collect. Probably why she wasn't able to get it to work.

Right, so can you extrapolate how to make a working car from a wheel and a picture? Shows just how foolish Merrill really is. 

Since this is essentially what Western Europe did to kick start the Renaissance. . . yes. Experimentation using a fragmentary record is totally foolish and it is much better to be backwards and wallow in ignorance, because if you try to do anything else, somebody will call you names.

[LobselVith8]

MadDjinn wrote...

Yeah, she's dumb, but that didn't mean it wouldn't work given that she was going back to the spirit in the last quest to 'finish it' and the keeper purposely sacrificed herself to ensure it wouldn't happen.

I don't think dumb people can craft a makeshift Eluvian from basic components after extrapolating a two thousand year old piece of ancient technology.