254 réponses à ce sujet

[Any0day]

 Now - before I go and get flamed, let me first point out that I understand some games require profanity to fit into the culture they're derived from; like grand theft auto. For an RPG though, I'm kind of surprised by the decision. I realize that DAO was advertised as having adult content, but the reality is the writing in general was more high-brow; meaning the adult content really only made sense to adults.

It just seems like the writing dropped to high school level. Perhaps this was to attract more of that audience, but it's really a turn off for my friends and I. It makes it hard when a common banter is "Don't you enjoy getting flipped ass over ****** and hammered like a bent nail?" - sure, it's funny, but no where near as witty as previous titles.

Edit:
I'm not saying profanity is bad, nor am I saying I'm shocked by it. This  thread was created purely to gauge what level is appropriate to fantasy setting from an artistic point of view. I don't believe the level of maturity in this game matches up to previous bioware titles.

Modifié par Any0day, 25 mars 2011 - 03:12 .

[Sen4lifE]

Q: Is all the profanity necessary?
A: Yes

Edit: Time for a real response.  Yes, it is necessary, and I as I'm sure other's foresaw someone with the "protect our children" speech (yes I'm probably overexaggerating your attitude here) showing up at the forums.

Be realistic: people use prophantity.  In that time and setting, probably more than they do in "high school."  Hiding from foul language in a game is less necessary than just using it.  However there will always be someone gasping everytime the dreaded four stars appear.

Edit 2:

"..especially those of us who want to share this with our kids."

Scrap my last response, this -is- a "protect our children" speech. Gah!

Modifié par Sen4lifE, 24 mars 2011 - 06:28 .

[Any0day]

Be realistic: people use prophantity.

I guess a rebuttal to that is if the developers feel as you say, why don't we disable the profanity filters here on the forums. It just seems all a bit hypocritical.

and if you think I'm arguing for ''my kids,''  no. I actually don't have any, but I understand the argument; I'm simply saying it was very disengaging for me to see it in an rpg.

Modifié par Any0day, 24 mars 2011 - 06:31 .

[Morroian]

So you fine with the OTT violence for your kids but not the swearing?

[RaenImrahl]

I think it's a good question. The answer is probably somewhere along the lines of, no, it's not necessary, but it is a valid creative choice.

All words, including profane ones, can have impact if used properly. We blunt the utility of our language when we use words carelessly or thoughtlessly. For example, I've been surprised over the years just how common the "f-word" has become in everyday speech... and not just by young people.

So I would pose your question a little differently-- does the use of profanity in DA2 serve no utility? No purpose?

Personally, I think it does... if it's being used to illustrate the nature of a character or add impact to a situation. The Seeker's "bulls--t!" in the first cutscene is probably an example of profanity used at its best-- to express anger and exasperation at Varric's narrative liberties. Other examples, like the the original poster mentions, less so. But I would say they're still valid choices for a game geared for young adults and above.

[petipas1414]

Isabela is totally unnecassary... some of the stuff she says is just... wow.

Other than Isabela the profanity isn't really an issue in my opinion. Standard M-rated fare

Modifié par petipas1414, 24 mars 2011 - 06:38 .

[QwibQwib]

This game isn't meant for -18

[RaenImrahl]

Morroian wrote...

So you fine with the OTT violence for your kids but not the swearing?

Don't equate the two.  You can show violence on American television that's not allowed, say, in the UK.  You can show nudity and sexual behavior in the UK that can't be seen on broadcast or (it not likely to be seen) on basic cable in the U.S.  Different standards for different situations.  The original poster said nothing about violence.

[Sen4lifE]

Q: "...why don't we disable the profanity filters..."

A: Because people will make threads like this.

[Cody211282]

Morroian wrote...

So you fine with the OTT violence for your kids but not the swearing?

Welcome to america, anything that resembles sex is also evil.

[Cody211282]

Sen4lifE wrote...

Q: "...why don't we disable the profanity filters..."

A: Because people will make threads like this.

Ok really, did you just dicover how to do that or something, because it's getting really goddamn annoying.

[Gentleman Moogle]

As a writer, I can attest to the fact that you have to be very very careful about dropping profanity, not because it's offensive, but because it can cheapen the dialog.

A single, well-timed f-bomb can ramp up the tension in a dialog sequence, it can show the reader/listener that things have taken a shift in tone, or it can be a hint as to a person's overall character. It can greatly add to a scene, if used correctly.

Used incorrectly, or too frequently, however, it can totally destroy a person's belief in a scene. It's difficult to describe why this works, but I'll try. When we as humans immerse ourselves in a book, or a movie, or a game, it engages a 'higher' function in our minds (Not the technical term, but I don't know the technical term.) We expect things to be more pristine than our every day lives. It's a form of escapism that many of us are not even aware we fall into.

While we're in this bubble of escapism, we notice imperfections, vulgarities, what-have-you more than we do in normal life, because when we're in normal life our brains function in 'mundane' mode. This is why, when most of us read a book where there are characters who -- as they would in real life -- use swearing in lieu of punctuation, it sets our teeth on edge. It doesn't feel 'right', even if the dialog is identical to something you heard on the bus coming home. It's because our minds expect our escapes to be more ideal than the real world, and it's far more jarring to see things like swearing or visceral violence (Like, real-world or SAW-type violence, not those stupid bloodsplosions) in our games.

Now, having stated where I'm coming from, I can answer the question: No, I don't think the level of swearing in DA2 was strictly necessary. I understand why they put it there, to portray certain characters as 'uncultured' or 'rough', but I think they went beyond what was needed. There was a glut of cursing, when all that was needed to get the point across was a few consistent and well-placed vulgarities.

[casedawgz]

....lol. Just....lol.

[Gyre]

Any0day wrote...

..especially those of us who want to share this with our kids.

So..
get rid of the minor profanity, and all the blood, gore, inappropriate
adult situations, and sexual referrences are ok to share with your kids?

Modifié par Gyre, 24 mars 2011 - 06:44 .

[Sen4lifE]

Cody211282 wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...

Q: "...why don't we disable the profanity filters..."

A: Because people will make threads like this.

Ok really, did you just dicover how to do that or something, because it's getting really goddamn annoying.

How to press the buttons on a keyboard or how to make people look silly in post?  Why must you cuss just to reply to me?  Is all this profanity necessary?

[AtreiyaN7]

The writing in the first game was hardly more high-brow in DA:O or did the joke about Alistair's dirty socks qualify as mature humor? To actually claim that the writing dropped to high-school level just because of the profanity seems quite silly. They're not exactly swearing constantly, and the amount of profanity at least seems more realistic than people being unfailingly polite even while a blood mage is trying to kill them.

[Any0day]

RaenImrahl wrote...

Personally, I think it does... if it's being used to illustrate the nature of a character or add impact to a situation. The Seeker's "bulls--t!" in the first cutscene is probably an example of profanity used at its best-- to express anger and exasperation at Varric's narrative liberties. Other examples, like the the original poster mentions, less so. But I would say they're still valid choices for a game geared for young adults and above.

RPG's that are set in fantasy usually have no-to very little profanity because cursing is a very modernized theme. It just doesn't fit very well on a fantasy setting.

Now one could argue that this is baby and they can do whatever they like, but typically when I see profanity used (especially in a book), unless it's used very artfully (a lot like nudity) - it comes off as immature, and that's roughly how I felt with the dialog in this game. I suppose your argument is a sound one, however I have an example to contrast on. 

Let's take Jon Irenicus: to his disbelief we have survived and have come to kill him, and his last resounding statement is "You survive yet!? I will take great pleasure in eradicating a nuisance such as you. ---"

He could have just said "You're still alive? I'm going to shove my wand up your ass!"

I suppose my point is, yeah, the second one is funnier - but does it really lend itself to the story or is it just making the dialog immature?

[casedawgz]

Any0day wrote...

RaenImrahl wrote...

Personally, I think it does... if it's being used to illustrate the nature of a character or add impact to a situation. The Seeker's "bulls--t!" in the first cutscene is probably an example of profanity used at its best-- to express anger and exasperation at Varric's narrative liberties. Other examples, like the the original poster mentions, less so. But I would say they're still valid choices for a game geared for young adults and above.

RPG's that are set in fantasy usually have no-to very little profanity because cursing is a very modernized theme. It just doesn't fit very well on a fantasy setting.

Now one could argue that this is baby and they can do whatever they like, but typically when I see profanity used (especially in a book), unless it's used very artfully (a lot like nudity) - it comes off as immature, and that's roughly how I felt with the dialog in this game. I suppose your argument is a sound one, however I have an example to contrast on. 

Let's take Jon Irenicus: to his disbelief we have survived and have come to kill him, and his last resounding statement is "You survive yet!? I will take great pleasure in eradicating a nuisance such as you. ---"

He could have just said "You're still alive? I'm going to shove my wand up your ass!"

I suppose my point is, yeah, the second one is funnier - but does it really lend itself to the story or is it just making the dialog immature?

Cursing isn't modern. People have been cursing for millenia.

[Sen4lifE]

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

As a writer, I can attest to the fact that you have to be very very careful about dropping profanity, not because it's offensive, but because it can cheapen the dialog.

A single, well-timed f-bomb can ramp up the tension in a dialog sequence, it can show the reader/listener that things have taken a shift in tone, or it can be a hint as to a person's overall character. It can greatly add to a scene, if used correctly.

Used incorrectly, or too frequently, however, it can totally destroy a person's belief in a scene. It's difficult to describe why this works, but I'll try. When we as humans immerse ourselves in a book, or a movie, or a game, it engages a 'higher' function in our minds (Not the technical term, but I don't know the technical term.) We expect things to be more pristine than our every day lives. It's a form of escapism that many of us are not even aware we fall into.

While we're in this bubble of escapism, we notice imperfections, vulgarities, what-have-you more than we do in normal life, because when we're in normal life our brains function in 'mundane' mode. This is why, when most of us read a book where there are characters who -- as they would in real life -- use swearing in lieu of punctuation, it sets our teeth on edge. It doesn't feel 'right', even if the dialog is identical to something you heard on the bus coming home. It's because our minds expect our escapes to be more ideal than the real world, and it's far more jarring to see things like swearing or visceral violence (Like, real-world or SAW-type violence, not those stupid bloodsplosions) in our games.

Now, having stated where I'm coming from, I can answer the question: No, I don't think the level of swearing in DA2 was strictly necessary. I understand why they put it there, to portray certain characters as 'uncultured' or 'rough', but I think they went beyond what was needed. There was a glut of cursing, when all that was needed to get the point across was a few consistent and well-placed vulgarities.

I know what you mean, but it depends on what a person expects from a character, too.  Like some skanky pirate girl with the name Isabela, you don't exactly expect her to use her kindegarten voice.

[RohanD]

The swearing in the game was so forced and gut wrenchingly lame. It was completely out of place and simply fit in with the "We want the CoD" crowd attitude that they made the game with. Just cheapened the whole experience, like a lot of the changes.

Profanity has it's place. Works perfectly in a game set in modern times, GTA, Metal Gear etc., it does NOT work in a high fantasy setting it just sounds horrible.

[Cody211282]

Sen4lifE wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...

Q: "...why don't we disable the profanity filters..."

A: Because people will make threads like this.

Ok really, did you just dicover how to do that or something, because it's getting really goddamn annoying.

How to press the buttons on a keyboard or how to make people look silly in post?  Why must you cuss just to reply to me?  Is all this profanity necessary?

Really I want to be angery at you for that but i can't stop laughing.

[Sen4lifE]

RohanD wrote...

The swearing in the game was so forced and gut wrenchingly lame. It was completely out of place and simply fit in with the "We want the CoD" crowd attitude that they made the game with. Just cheapened the whole experience, like a lot of the changes.

Profanity has it's place. Works perfectly in a game set in modern times, GTA, Metal Gear etc., it does NOT work in a high fantasy setting it just sounds horrible.

Why is it everytime someone finds a fault, no matter if it's Adventure Quest 2, is it the CoD crowds' fault?

I don't even like CoD, but come on.

[Johnny20]

No, it isn't. Nor are the giant boobs on every female. But hey, 14 years olds like that kinda stuff, so Bioware threw it all in there. I amazed it didn't have a hard rock soundtrack too.

Modifié par Johnny20, 24 mars 2011 - 06:56 .

[Any0day]

casedawgz wrote...

Cursing isn't modern. People have been cursing for millenia.

I suppose I should have stated more accurately that the amount of open and widely used cursing that's done these days is very modernized.

[DungeonLord]

Better giant boobs on everyone than ironing boards all around