254 réponses à ce sujet

[signas82]

I've played immature games and DA2 is not one of them. I have some gripes with the story in general, but the language used is not one of them and I'm actually put off when Adults in a fantasy or any world that is supposed to be taken seriously to a certain extent do not curse. If you're a noble or a holy person and you're cursing like a sailor then its one thing, but if you're a sailor and you're cursing like a sailor then I don't see what the problem is.

If someone can curse a great deal in real life then there is no reason that a virtual person can't curse just as much in a game or book.

[Esbatty]

Varric is the man. "You're a mage you should be familiar with... weird sh*t." was one of the best lines ever across all the Dragon Age media.

[Any0day]

Okay, I've spent some time on my reply; just to be as clear as I can be. Hopefully people read it.

halO bendeR wrote...

I'm really having trouble understanding your position. You concede that other media properties such as Deadwood and the Tudors can get away with moderning up the language, but for some reason Dragon Age 2 can not? Why exactly is that in your opinion?

Yes, it seems you are. I didn't realize my reply automatically established the notion that Deadwood and Tudors (tv shows?) some how get a pass while Dragonage does not. I'll clarify: I'm not saying ban cursing or profanity from all fantasy - I'm simply arguing that it must fit within it and substantiate it rather than cheapen it. It's a subtle contrivity and explaining the difference would be like explaining a work of art or the color blue; indeed the differentiation between art and pornography.

Although, I haven't had the pleasure of seeing either of those shows first hand; I will watch a few of each. I did see something rather funny when I did a youtube search on Deadwood (NSFW):
Indeed pointing out the amount of curses said in a single episode. Without context though, I can't comment - just sidetracking here. It may indeed be a great show and fit within the culture of the show.

You did however sidestep the question of Merrill who WAS a companion everyone has access to. And I could go on from there: I don't recall Bethany, Anders or Fenris constantly swearing either. So who prey tell are the characters that offend you?

I actually did not have much issue with the companions themselves as much as the non-negotiable plot points within the story line. This is not to say I didn't have issues with the banters at times (a majority of the banters had to do with sex or some other) - I felt most of the banters this time around were more tongue-in-cheek, and less of the dry and witty humor of previous games.

Seriously, lets drop the facade that this argument has some intellectual merrit to it: Has it escaped your attention that this is a FANTASY setting?

Eludajae wrote...
Honestly, I hear more profanity in my walk to work from my house by passers by than I heard in this game. Please people this was a Teen rated game, most teenagers have sworn more in one hour of High School than most adults do in a week.

I went ahead and put these two quotes together for a bit of contrast. First of all; which is it. Is this a fantasy game or a game trying to emulate the modern street talk. I say street not to be disrespectful, but to embellish that in a work/professional environment you wouldn't be profane to your boss if he told you to do something. Also try not to be confused; I'm not saying the game should be strictly professional (not at all infact), merely pointing out that the language of this game is such purely to attract a mass audience and not expand or substantiate the dialogue. The reason I've come to this conclusion is simple: it wasn't as prevailent or needed in previous bioware games, why the sudden change? So let's arrive to this:

I find it funny that your biggest gripe in that regard is the use of curse words. Also, what are you talking about 'it's not Bioware's agenda'? I haven't detected a noticable difference between the language used in Dragon Age 2 and the language used in every other Bioware title ever produced.

My gripe is the use of modernized profanity in the context of a medieval fantasy game. I really can't elaborate the ideology on it more than that. I'm been rp-p&p-dnd-ing for many years, and all the people I've done it with I can't think of a single time I've heard a curse in character. Speaking on previous Bioware games, I remember downloading a mod once for Baldur's Gate (1 or 2, can't recall) and at one point it had made one of my NPC characters say ''****,'' or something to that effect inside a party banter. I uninstalled it immediately -- not because I was offended, but because it entirely broke my immersion of the game right then and there. Today's profanity inside a Bioware game is definitely a new thing, that's for sure -- I'm rather surprised you don't know that, seeing as you ''can't tell a difference in dialogue.''

I suppose partially the reason it is so immersion breaking for me is because it did really make me jump a bit the first time I saw it; I wasn't expecting that type of writing.

Though I'm starting to think you're just a troll because I find it hard to take your argument seriously at all. Especially since your own verbiage is pretty tortured.

Huh? If I'm a troll I'm wasting a rather long time doing so. If anything, writing on these forums and reading some of the various immature/ignorant replies is akin to sticking needles in my eyes. Everyone I've talked to in my circle of RP'ers agrees with what I'm writing here, which is partially why I'm frustrated. So many of you either contrast the game's dialogue with real life, or tell me to suspend belief because it's fantasy. The other half (or indeed 3/4ths) yell ''it's an M rated game, expect that type of language," as if that argument really makes any sense in the context of what I'm saying. (The people I've chosen to reply to have honest and valid arguements though)

I've played immature games and DA2 is not one of them. I have some gripes with the story in general, but the language used is not one of them and I'm actually put off when Adults in a fantasy or any world that is supposed to be taken seriously to a certain extent do not curse. If you're a noble or a holy person and you're cursing like a sailor then its one thing, but if you're a sailor and you're cursing like a sailor then I don't see what the problem is.

If someone can curse a great deal in real life then there is no reason that a virtual person can't curse just as much in a game or book.

Perhaps. It may just be that I need to change my attitude; I'm not saying I'm not hypocritical in everything, nor am I saying I'm ''right.'' I'm simply trying to get people to understand my point of view.

edit: I can't spell. heh

Modifié par Any0day, 26 mars 2011 - 11:06 .

[berelinde]

In DA2, vulgarity or the avoidance of it depends on the character. Varric, as already mentioned, uses common language. His dialogue is peppered with casual profanity, but mostly, it's the kind of thing that people use every day with intimate friends, words that have lost the power to shock. If I were telling my best friend about the impossibly messed up day I had and my friend said "Wow, that's some weird sheet," I wouldn't even blink over the profanity use. It's kind of the response I expected.

Isabela is a vulgar person. Everything about her is flamboyant and intended to shock. She talks trash, and that's just the way it is. Lets face it, she was never going to be anybody's role model anyway. The game is pretty heavy, though, and it's refreshing to have one delightfully wicked friend you can count on to say something completely irreverent and absolutely hilarious. Considering that I originally expected to loathe Isabela for being such a stereotypical tramp, my praise here means something.

If the other characters swear, I don't much remember it. Which means that it did not strike me as inappropriate one way or another.

Edited for typos.

Modifié par berelinde, 26 mars 2011 - 11:18 .

[LukaCrosszeria]

Any0day wrote...

 Now - before I go and get flamed, let me first point out that I understand some games require profanity to fit into the culture they're derived from; like grand theft auto. For an RPG though, I'm kind of surprised by the decision. I realize that DAO was advertised as having adult content, but the reality is the writing in general was more high-brow; meaning the adult content really only made sense to adults.

It just seems like the writing dropped to high school level. Perhaps this was to attract more of that audience, but it's really a turn off for my friends and I. It makes it hard when a common banter is "Don't you enjoy getting flipped ass over ****** and hammered like a bent nail?" - sure, it's funny, but no where near as witty as previous titles.

Edit:
I'm not saying profanity is bad, nor am I saying I'm shocked by it. This  thread was created purely to gauge what level is appropriate to fantasy setting from an artistic point of view. I don't believe the level of maturity in this game matches up to previous bioware titles.

The profanity didn't bother me. It's more unrealistic when it's lacking, like in Origins. Nobody is that polite. It also never got to a point where it was vulgar either.

[The_11thDoctor]

Honestly I hadnt noticed too much in that department. I still think this game should be Rated Teen at most and that's pushing it. There isnt any adult content in the game. There's no sex, but awkward making out and light cursing. Nothing a normal 9 year old cant handle. As far as writing quality, I think some quality dropped due to the user being in the dark on what's going on and people randomly saying they know me or my decisions having no effect on the outcome during any part of the story. Yes you can respond differently but that's it. You make no effect on the world.

[Coik]

Honestly, the only cursing I really noticed was when they used the made up ones.

[Valaskjalf]

I love how people invent some kind of Standard Fantasy Setting idea in their minds in regards to how characters should speak... the irony.

[halO bendeR]

I give up...

I don't think you're trolling Any0day --at least not deliberately-- but the fact that virtually no one on this thread seems to agree with you speaks for itself; You've sort of gone off the deep end here.
It's a lost cause and I wonder a bit how you've been able to navigate the media landscape up until now with such harsh criteria in place.

[Any0day]

halO bendeR wrote...
I don't think you're trolling Any0day --at least not deliberately-- but the fact that virtually no one on this thread seems to agree with you speaks for itself; You've sort of gone off the deep end here.
It's a lost cause and I wonder a bit how you've been able to navigate the media landscape up until now with such harsh criteria in place.

Hm. Perhaps as far as this forum is concerns, I have ''gone off the deep end.'' However, I believe you've blown this up a bit bigger in your mind than I really feel - because truth be told, if I didn't feel the overall story of the game was terrible (which I do, profanity aside), I would have probably enjoyed it anyway. I simply felt, all those issues aside, that the level of writing dropped to appeal to a bigger market; really - I'm just arguing the finer points of artistic standards. I'll forgive you for not responding to my point that, this level of writing, is infact a new addition to bioware's dialogue -- because honestly discussing it is a bit of a moot point now.

To each his own, I suppose. Cheers mate.

[sevalaricgirl]

As a published author of erotic novels I will say this; Bioware over did the swearing and it was unnecessary to the immersion of the story. A little bit goes a long way. I also thought the writing could have been better developed but it is what it is. You take it or leave it. have less swearing in a 600 page novel than Bioware does in this game. I also think that it's guys who are so tuned in to breast size. I didn't even really notice except for Isabela and well who cares what the bodies look like. Of course, I'm a female hetero so I wasn't paying much attention to what other women in the game looked like.

Modifié par sevalaricgirl, 26 mars 2011 - 04:18 .

[Derax]

I like profanity only in RL or maybe tarantino films but finding it rpg games is a sign for low(er) quality

It's simple as that

[Derax]

sevalaricgirl wrote...

As a published author of erotic novels I will say this; Bioware over did the swearing and it was unnecessary to the immersion of the story. A little bit goes a long way. I also thought the writing could have been better developed but it is what it is. You take it or leave it. have less swearing in a 600 page novel than Bioware does in this game. I also think that it's guys who are so tuned in to breast size. I didn't even really notice except for Isabela and well who cares what the bodies look like. Of course, I'm a female hetero so I wasn't paying much attention to what other women in the game looked like.

change guys to premature male teenager and you're right

it is sad that da2 wasn't the predecessor of baldurs gate because back in those days i might had the fitting maturity to enjoy da 2 

Modifié par Derax, 26 mars 2011 - 04:24 .

[TheJist]

I honestly felt that is was much better when the swearing came from stuff of the dragon age universe rather then ours but at least DA2 didn['t have raging profanity which would have made me just turn it off.

[Pyrate_d]

I don't mind the writing in DA2, but the overall plot and the connections between different conversations are pretty terrible. I also didn't mind the profanity.

[AFCommando]

the game had so many plot holes and the story just sucked, they tried to make it a action rpg but failed terribly, they need to play to there strengths, they focused way to much on the engine and let the story fall a part.
also they were very lazy in this game.
heres a accurate review skip to like 15 minutes.

[JasmoVT]

I would have to say I never noticed any profanity in two playthroughs so I would conclude it flows naturally and I am sure there was not anything I would consider really profane. This is not a game for kids, the box notes language and sexuality is part of the content. If you want puppies and butteflies for a twelve year old, this is not the game.

[MKDAWUSS]

I thought it was just a wee bit excessive (profanity is the crutch of a conversational cripple), but it was still tolerable. I think part of the problem is is that we were coming off Origins, which is a lot cleaner in that respect.

[Bathead]

Is the profanity necessary?
No.
Is it overdone?
Not at all.
It's just ...  there.

Modifié par Bathead, 26 mars 2011 - 06:18 .

[Sen4lifE]

Bathead wrote...

Is the profanity necessary?
No.
Is it overdone?
Not at all.
It's just ...  there.

Really good point.  If you ask if it's necessary, it's not technically necessary.  Not much is "necessary." xD

[signas82]

I should mention that I agree that the story in DA2 was lackluster in a lot of respects or I didn't beat the game and say to myself "That was a damn good story" like I did with DAO, ME 1&2, Jade empire and other Bioware games.

[Tripedius]

Although the profanity in this game didn't always serve a purpose, I actually liked most of it. Makes the game more real, more mature, as people in the real world tend to swear as well. If someone screws you over it is perfectly normal to call such a person a f-ing bastard. As said it gives the world a more real feeling. And for those who don't like it in a high fantasy setting, even those people swear. It doesn't break immersion cause all other words used stem from the same vocabulary (i.a.w. calling someone a **** is the same as calling something a table)

[Persephone]

I did not mind it, it added to the realism a lot IMO.

And it's still mild when compared to "The Witcher".

[planed scaped]

The Witcher's got rape, pedophiles, wall'o'text worth of profanity, harsh and cruel Racism and sexism. And it works for the dark gritty world.

It really isn't that bad in DA2.

[nightlordv]

I would never let my kids play this game because of the amount of gore and profanity that just seems over the top at times. Granted, thats why games are rated, but developers these days seem to throw in the profanity to be "cool" and "hip" rather then use it as a means of impact delivery for dialogue. Isabella is indeed filthy and it ruined her character in my opinion. Merill was nicely done and don't think she swore at all, and Varric was great too because he had timed one liners with swearing that actually worked because they were not a constant thing.