254 réponses à ce sujet

[Silveryne]

Short Answer: Yes. People swear. Some people are very crude. Some people are colourful and drop the F-bomb every other word. It happens.

Short Essay Response: If we're bringing "but we must change it! for the children!" into it, I need to admit that I played Fallouts 1 and 2 when I was....10? 11? In the span between 4th and 7th grade, regardless. They're much more obscene and dark, in my opinion, than either Dragon Age title is. Some kids can deal with profanity maturely, some can't. Depends on the kid. Not everyone is going to take profanity and go do the acts described, or go around repeating it.

The comment about being flipped ****** over ass isn't supposed to be "funny", at least not in the traditional sense. It's supposed to be something shocking that the Isabela character says. There's no wit there, it's humor entirely for shock value -- which is what Isabela's character does.

And this is dark fantasy. It's not a nice high fantasy where everyone plays nice with each other and gets to go home and share hot chocolate. It's a dark fantasy where everyone is getting flipped T over A and being hammered like a bent nail and going back to the tavern to get drunk after they go fight that dragon.

My opinion is that this is a question of "does it fit with the character" and "is it in there artistically, or is it forced in there in order to appeal to gamers who like that". I would answer yes and artistically respectively.

[Any0day]

casedawgz wrote...


Way to copypaste your whole argument from http://www.bradleyro...-in-literature/

Does it make it any less valid?
I'm sorry I don't have the time to type up and do my own research; but that more or less says exactly what I've been trying to get across.

Modifié par Any0day, 24 mars 2011 - 07:54 .

[casedawgz]

Yeah, its not a good argument. It's some schmuck blogger citing a tiny article from an irrelevant, utterly unknown author. And you also gave no credit to your source and passed the words off as your own. Pretty disingenuous.

[Cody211282]

Any0day wrote...

casedawgz wrote...


Way to copypaste your whole argument from http://www.bradleyro...-in-literature/

Does it make it any less valid?

Yea it basicly means you couldn't defend your own point so you plagirsed someone elses work to do it, and their point wasn't  very good ether.

[Any0day]

casedawgz wrote...

Yeah, its not a good argument. It's some schmuck blogger citing a tiny article from an irrelevant, utterly unknown author. And you also gave no credit to your source and passed the words off as your own. Pretty disingenuous.

...and instead of coming up and arguing your own point you attack me, personally. I guess the community here has pretty much boiled down to what I've feared. I remember a time when, for the most part, you could engage in thoughtful discussion here.

[casedawgz]

Any0day wrote...

casedawgz wrote...

Yeah, its not a good argument. It's some schmuck blogger citing a tiny article from an irrelevant, utterly unknown author. And you also gave no credit to your source and passed the words off as your own. Pretty disingenuous.

...and instead of coming up and arguing your own point you attack me, personally. I guess the community here has pretty much boiled down to what I've feared. I remember a time when, for the most part, you could engage in thoughtful discussion here.

Plagiarism isn't really thoughtful discussion. You didn't cite your source. I looked up Charles Benton and that article was literally the only place on the internet that he was mentioned, along with, verbatim, the rest of the argument, which you passed off as your own. If you want to engage in thoughtful discussion, abide by its code of conduct.

[AngelicMachinery]

I don't really remember much profanity...

[Statulos]

Any0day wrote...

casedawgz wrote...

Cursing isn't modern. People have been cursing for millenia.

I suppose I should have stated more accurately that the amount of open and widely used cursing that's done these days is very modernized.

Because you have more accounts of now than from the XIV century. Dude, you should read the stuff that people wrote arround the times of the Black Death.

Silveryne wrote...

Short Answer: Yes. People swear. Some
people are very crude. Some people are colourful and drop the F-bomb
every other word. It happens.

Short Essay Response: If we're
bringing "but we must change it! for the children!" into it, I need to
admit that I played Fallouts 1 and 2 when I was....10? 11? In the span
between 4th and 7th grade, regardless. They're much more obscene and
dark, in my opinion, than either Dragon Age title is. Some kids can deal
with profanity maturely, some can't. Depends on the kid. Not everyone
is going to take profanity and go do the acts described, or go around
repeating it.

The comment about being flipped ****** over ass isn't
supposed to be "funny", at least not in the traditional sense. It's
supposed to be something shocking that the Isabela character says.
There's no wit there, it's humor entirely for shock value -- which is
what Isabela's character does.

And this is dark fantasy. It's not
a nice high fantasy where everyone plays nice with each other and gets
to go home and share hot chocolate. It's a dark fantasy where everyone
is getting flipped T over A and being hammered like a bent nail and
going back to the tavern to get drunk after they go fight that dragon.

My
opinion is that this is a question of "does it fit with the character"
and "is it in there artistically, or is it forced in there in order to
appeal to gamers who like that". I would answer yes and artistically
respectively.

-My dad cursed a lot!
-My language (Spanish is my mother language) is in general quite foul.
-I´m doing my second Ph.D.

Extrapolating values, just as you comment on kids and profanity is absolutely right.

Modifié par Statulos, 24 mars 2011 - 08:05 .

[WJC3688]

Any0day wrote...

 Now - before I go and get flamed, let me first point out that I understand some games require profanity to fit into the culture they're derived from; like grand theft auto. For an RPG though, I'm kind of surprised by the decision. I realize that DAO was advertised as having adult content, but the reality is the writing in general was more high-brow; meaning the adult content really only made sense to adults.

It just seems like the writing dropped to high school level. Perhaps this was to attract more of that audience, but it's really a turn off for my friends and I; especially those of us who want to share this with our kids. It makes it hard when a common banter is "Don't you enjoy getting flipped ass over ****** and hammered like a bent nail?" - sure, it's funny, but no where near as witty as previous titles.

Umm, I wouldn't be sharing this game with kids profanity or not.  Or is my copy the only one with bodies that burst open like balloons full of blood, limbs flying helter-skelter, when they're lightly tapped by a weapon?

Anyways, with profanity, it's all about how it's used.  If it's used in an intelligent, creative, and entertaining manner, it's a good thing.  If not, it's a bad thing.  Whether or not it was used well in this game is pure personal opinion.  Personally I thought its usage was neither noteworthy nor cringeworthy.  Certainly not something that would strike me as "disengaging" or anything like that.  But there's always going to be a minority who thinks profanity is always bad, even when it's used in an entertaining manner, and the fact that you were concerned by this enough to make a topic about it causes me to suspect that you fall within said minority.

Modifié par WJC3688, 24 mars 2011 - 08:05 .

[cindercatz]

Yes it's necessary, but so is appropriate nudity, which they've shied away from, and so is more realistic violence, gone from this installment. DA's supposed to be adult, low fantasy fiction, but it seems like they're trying to find the perfect maximum amount of R-rated material that they can still get away with marketing to minors. Else, why the extremely awkward attempt to ride the fence in so many ways this time out? It's standard corporate practise nowdays, like PG-13 slasher flicks. Corporate think starts with the notion that this forced medium gets butts in the seats, so to speak.

As far as R/M-rated fantasy goes, the idea that you expect fantasy or fantastic media to be PG-13 is recent, as older mature fiction, whether it be books or movies or take your pick, is in plentiful supply if you look for it. Even Grimm's fairy tales were originally meant for adults, or Chaucer's Fables (sp), the original French fictionalisation of King Arthur's Tales, etc. Beowulf, even, Greek tragedy. The last few decades, people have been sanitizing everything here, and our culture's the lesser for it. When's the last time you saw Greek deities presented correctly at the theater or any breast in any fantasy film? The nineties and earlier 2/3 of the'00s were horrible about this. They even covered up Lady Justice's breast at the capital. You had a group a few months ago trying to replace all racially offensive language in Huck Finn with the word "slave", never mind that those words were there for a reason, combating racism. :-( So any time somebody bucks that trend, like HBO/Showtime shows recently, or gaming's Heavy Rain, Red Dead Redemption, or even the absurdist God of War 3 (of the games I've played in the last couple years), I applaud and support that.

As far as real world cussing goes, it's as ancient as language. Our modern moralism in America comes originally out of Victorian era Puritanism, about the most prudish, harshly strict culture in the history of the western world, and our recent Revivalist religious movement over the last few decades. Anything that combats that and makes our culture a more sane thing, our world more fun and livable, I'm for.

Sorry to get all preachy..

Edit: So yeah, I'm pro-BioWare-getting-off-that-fence and stuff. Less corporate think, more courage.

Modifié par cindercatz, 24 mars 2011 - 08:14 .

[TJSolo]

We are big goddamned heroes and pirates and gritty.
We are big goddamed gritty hero pirates. We have to cuss a lot it is in the contract.

[orpheus333]

Profanity is a beautiful use of the english language. What words describe the pain of a stubbed toe so efficiently? What words could describe the anguish at a bad driver or a mother using her pram as a portable pedestrian crossing. What words? Indeed.

****** Arse Bollocks and Bum thats what...

Modifié par andyr1986, 24 mars 2011 - 08:19 .

[Dermain]

cindercatz wrote...

Yes it's necessary, but so is appropriate nudity, which they've shied away from, and so is more realistic violence, gone from this installment. DA's supposed to be adult, low fantasy fiction, but it seems like they're trying to find the perfect maximum amount of R-rated material that they can still get away with marketing to minors. Else, why the extremely awkward attempt to ride the fence in so many ways this time out? It's standard corporate practise nowdays, like PG-13 slasher flicks. Corporate think starts with the notion that this forced medium gets butts in the seats, so to speak.

As far as R/M-rated fantasy goes, the idea that you expect fantasy or fantastic media to be PG-13 is recent, as older mature fiction, whether it be books or movies or take your pick, is in plentiful supply if you look for it. Even Grimm's fairy tales were originally meant for adults, or Chaucer's Fables (sp), the original French fictionalisation of King Arthur's Tales, etc. Beowulf, even, Greek tragedy. The last few decades, people have been sanitizing everything here, and our culture's the lesser for it. When's the last time you saw Greek deities presented correctly at the theater or any breast in any fantasy film? The nineties and earlier 2/3 of the'00s were horrible about this. They even covered up Lady Justice's breast at the capital. You had a group a few months ago trying to replace all racially offensive language in Huck Finn with the word "slave", never mind that those words were there for a reason, combating racism. :-( So any time somebody bucks that trend, like HBO/Showtime shows recently, or gaming's Heavy Rain, Red Dead Redemption, or even the absurdist God of War 3 (of the games I've played in the last couple years), I applaud and support that.

As far as real world cussing goes, it's as ancient as language. Our modern moralism in America comes originally out of Victorian era Puritanism, about the most prudish, harshly strict culture in the history of the western world, and our recent Revivalist religious movement over the last few decades. Anything that combats that and makes our culture a more sane thing, our world more fun and livable, I'm for.

Sorry to get all preachy..

It's not really the past few decades that "sanitization" started to occur. It made a huge comeback in the early 1900's dropped out around 1930 or so with the Great Depression, then came back in full force in the mid 40's. I would say that around every 20-30 years some sort of sanitization of media occurs, sadly usually based off of the Fundamentalist aspects of religion. Now while I can see the arguement for this sanitization, I do not necessarily think that it is the best thing for our culture. Trying to ignore/stop the "bad' things of society never works, the 1960's are a good example of this.

[Talladarr]

Okay, let me sum this up for you quickly. This is a RATED M GAME. On top of that, face reality, profanity is part of life, even MORE so in adult couture. Isn't it fairly self explanatory that profanity is going to be around?

[Matterialize]

I didn't notice much at all. I think Varric might've swore once or twice in my 38 hour game. I never used Isabela, maybe that helped.

Cassandra's use of "bull****" was rather awkward though

[TJSolo]

Talladarr wrote...

Okay, let me sum this up for you quickly. This is a RATED M GAME. On top of that, face reality, profanity is part of life, even MORE so in adult couture. Isn't it fairly self explanatory that profanity is going to be around?

 

HBO adult culture maybe.

A day for an average adult going to work, being in public places, around family...cussing is not that prevalent.

[Dermain]

TJSolo wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Okay, let me sum this up for you quickly. This is a RATED M GAME. On top of that, face reality, profanity is part of life, even MORE so in adult couture. Isn't it fairly self explanatory that profanity is going to be around?

 

HBO adult culture maybe.

A day for an average adult going to work, being in public places, around family...cussing is not that prevalent.

How sure of you are that?

Also, are you speaking about the Amish?

[Cody211282]

TJSolo wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Okay, let me sum this up for you quickly. This is a RATED M GAME. On top of that, face reality, profanity is part of life, even MORE so in adult couture. Isn't it fairly self explanatory that profanity is going to be around?

 

HBO adult culture maybe.

A day for an average adult going to work, being in public places, around family...cussing is not that prevalent.

I work in healthcare(so im around a lot of people), and let me tell you this,I have yet to meet someone who doesnt swear.

Basicly it's a part of being a damn adult so it's time to grow up and deal with it.

[casedawgz]

Myrkale wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Talladarr wrote...

Okay, let me sum this up for you quickly. This is a RATED M GAME. On top of that, face reality, profanity is part of life, even MORE so in adult couture. Isn't it fairly self explanatory that profanity is going to be around?

 

HBO adult culture maybe.

A day for an average adult going to work, being in public places, around family...cussing is not that prevalent.

How sure of you are that?

Also, are you speaking about the Amish?

Must be.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

RaenImrahl wrote...

Morroian wrote...

So you fine with the OTT violence for your kids but not the swearing?

Don't equate the two.  You can show violence on American television that's not allowed, say, in the UK.  You can show nudity and sexual behavior in the UK that can't be seen on broadcast or (it not likely to be seen) on basic cable in the U.S.  Different standards for different situations.  The original poster said nothing about violence.

Um, yeah, I noticed... but what's your point? He didn't equate the two. 'Different standards' doesn't mean 'either are right'.

You're the one who equated sex with violence, if anything... 

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 24 mars 2011 - 08:45 .

[JabbaDaHutt30]

as for the swearing, some if it is there and on this level, it seems ok. but we don't wanna devolve dragon age's writing to the mediocrity of the witcher, i hope?

[Talladarr]

I'm not saying let's have someone swear every other word, but as people have pointed out, swearing is almost an everyday occurrence for adults. Rated M games are fur ADULTS, ergo, this should NOT be all that surprising

[Dubya75]

OP...you want to share a violent 18 rated game with your kids? Really? Do you also criticise movies with sexual and violent content based on the fact it's unsuitable for your kids?
Dragon Age II is NOT suitable for kids under 18 (deal with it), so your argument is pretty irrelevant.

Modifié par Dubya75, 24 mars 2011 - 09:00 .