254 réponses à ce sujet

[Foryou]

I didn't find the swearing that bad to be perfectly honest it seemed natural.

[Addai]

I barely noticed any cussing, certainly not a "glut" of it. That would be something like the Sopranos. Maybe because I watch shows like that, I hardly feel I'm going to wilt from a few mild cuss words.

[Any0day]

simfamSP wrote...

Any0day wrote...

halO bendeR wrote...

I didn't notice a 'problem' with profanity in my playthrough of the game; Compare it to other M rated titles like Gears of War, and I think you'll find it was rather reserved.

Why would I want to compare Dragon Age to Gears Of War? How about we compare Star Craft 2 with Half Life(?). They're apples and oranges. I've already stated: if I'm playing a game such as Grand Theft Auto, Bad Company, or even Mass Effect, I may expect modernized profanity given the culture it was derived with respect to. --- and I like those games! If I'm unwinding from a long day at work and need something funny, maybe I'll throw on GTA4 and do funny things because I enjoy that type of maturity level for that particular genre. That doesn't mean that particular level of maturity is something I expect or accept in other differing genres; such as fantasy. I've always equated fantasy with puzzles and intellectual challenges (notice by the way there were no puzzles or riddles in this game, felt really cheapened by that); what I don't expect is Avaline calling everyone a son of a **** - a word funny enough I can't say on these forums.

Isabela's comments made sense given her background and personality, some other characters I don't think swore at all. 
I don't see how the inclusion of profanity is indicative of the quality of the writing one way or the other; It's all in how you use it.

All characters swore to an extent throughout the game - and modern swearing stands out like a swore thumb in medieval fantasy, especially when they mix it with this sort of fantasy vocabulary. You can definitely argue that it's just Isabela's character, but honestly - does it belong, is the question. Would it makes sense to throw a suit of armor on say, Niko from grand theft auto, and throw him in as a party member? - Your argument also doesn't really level up either when you take into account that it isn't just Isabela that swears; although she might be the main offender, she's no where near the only contributor.  You are right, though, if it's used correctly, it can be very powerful.

Personally I enjoyed many of the characters and quests this time around more than I did in DA:O. It really bugs me that people who don't like the game will matter-of-factly throw out the idea that DA2's quality of writing has suffered without backing it up with proof.

I think the game aswell as many examples from the past and other titles in the genre can be proof enough. At any rate, I was dissappointed with the overall story (lack of maturity aside) - and my view on the game overall is already up in the sticky.

Why does swearing indicate immaturity. I can sense immaturity in some snobbish prat who uses Shakespear English aswell as any poor bloke who swears with no rest.

Because it feels (to me anyway) that the shock value is lost when profanity is used by a character to describe how they feel rather than anything else in places where it's unneeded. It shows a lack of depth in the character and indeed the writing behind it if used too much.

[Sen4lifE]

mousestalker wrote...

I must admit I very much prefer profanity along these lines

I must admit I very much prefer profanity along these lines.

[halO bendeR]

Any0day wrote...
Why would I want to compare Dragon Age to Gears Of War? How about we compare Star Craft 2 with Half Life(?). They're apples and oranges. I've already stated: if I'm playing a game such as Grand Theft Auto, Bad Company, or even Mass Effect, I may expect modernized profanity given the culture it was derived with respect to. --- and I like those games! If I'm unwinding from a long day at work and need something funny, maybe I'll throw on GTA4 and do funny things because I enjoy that type of maturity level for that particular genre. That doesn't mean that particular level of maturity is something I expect or accept in other differing genres; such as fantasy. I've always equated fantasy with puzzles and intellectual challenges (notice by the way there were no puzzles or riddles in this game, felt really cheapened by that); what I don't expect is Avaline calling everyone a son of a **** - a word funny enough I can't say on these forums.

So lets get this straight, the use of modern common words and phrasing in the dialogue doesn't bother you, only the use of modern curse words? That sounds to me like a personal pet-peeve, not a problem with the quality of writing itself.  

All characters swore to an extent throughout the game - and modern swearing stands out like a swore thumb in medieval fantasy, especially when they mix it with this sort of fantasy vocabulary. You can definitely argue that it's just Isabela's character, but honestly - does it belong, is the question. Would it makes sense to throw a suit of armor on say, Niko from grand theft auto, and throw him in as a party member? - Your argument also doesn't really level up either when you take into account that it isn't just Isabela that swears; although she might be the main offender, she's no where near the only contributor.  You are right, though, if it's used correctly, it can be very powerful.

Merrill swore? Sebastian?
I mean they could have, just I don't recall any instances where something they said struck me as glaringly out of character as a modern swear probably would.

I'm sorry, it seems just a bit ridiculous to me that your one huge point denouncing the quality of writing in DA2 is it's use of modern profanity  (though from an etymological perspective I think you're wrong even there).
Have you read modern fantasy novels like Game of Thrones? Have you watched historically set TV shows like Deadwood or the Tudors? All these properties are guilty of using modern vernacular too, if they didn't they'd probably alienate more people then they'd appease. 

I think the game aswell as many examples from the past and other titles in the genre can be proof enough. At any rate, I was dissappointed with the overall story (lack of maturity aside) - and my view on the game overall is already up in the sticky.

No, it's not proof enough. If you're going to spout something like it's fact, provide specific examples. At least elaborate on what areas of the writing you feel are of lesser quality. Is it the structure of the story, the characters? What?

[Chuvvy]

People complained about ME2 as well I thought both DA2 and ME2 were very clean. Cleaner than my average hour, I have terrible mouth. The use of profanity is sporadic at best, they say **** maybe ten times in a thirty hour game.

Modifié par Slidell505, 26 mars 2011 - 12:20 .

[TehPear]

Do you people really think you'd understand medieval or even just Elizabethan cursing rather than 20th century cursing?

Thou pernicious pox-marked flap-dragon!
Thou weedy fly-bitten wagtail!
Thou gorbellied clapper-clawed horn-beast!
Thou peevish guts-griping malt-worm!
Thou gleeking bat-fowling clack-dish!
Thou fitful beef-witted scut!
Thou greasy lean-witted pignut!
Thou quailing beetle-headed pumpion!
Thou wenching elf-skinned dogfish!
Thou mangled common-kissing dogfish!

[Any0day]

halO bendeR wrote...

So lets get this straight, the use of modern common words and phrasing in the dialogue doesn't bother you, only the use of modern curse words? That sounds to me like a personal pet-peeve, not a problem with the quality of writing itself.  

It's could quite possibly be a 'pet-peeve,' I won't argue you that. Although I definitely feel it has an impact on the writing, which I'll get into.

Merrill swore? Sebastian? 
I mean they could have, just I don't recall any instances where something they said struck me as glaringly out of character as a modern swear probably would.

Well, I dropped my pre-order after playing the demo and bought it on amazon after it went on sale, so I have no DLC and have no plans to pick it up - so I can't comment on Sabastian personally. From what I've heard from various friends, though, is that the character is realitively shallow.

I'm sorry, it seems just a bit ridiculous to me that your one huge point denouncing the quality of writing in DA2 is it's use of modern profanity  (though from an etymological perspective I think you're wrong even there).

An interesting argument, although potentially flawed. Certainly in the post-roman (religion, aka medieval) era it was more uncommon to spout profanity or heresay - people were hung for lesser crimes. Even those who could be argued as being 'deviants' or outcasts, such as Isabela, would never be seen anywhere near a church or 'chantry.' You certainly don't fear the wrath of God (or more appropriately, the church) anywhere near us much now as in the past. 

edit:

Just wanted to add, this isn't my ''huge point'' for denouncing the game's writing, however there are other threads pursuing those avenues and I'm not going to just mirror that; I'd rather focus on a different area that bothered me; but by no means is it a ''huge factor.''

Have you read modern fantasy novels like Game of Thrones? Have you watched historically set TV shows like Deadwood or the Tudors? All these properties are guilty of using modern vernacular too, if they didn't they'd probably alienate more people then they'd appease.  

Probably the most compelling argument I've seen although you use the word 'modern' loosely; but I would agree they are indeed trying to appease the mass audience. Unfortunately, up until resently that wasn't bioware's agenda, and it's not a vision I fall in line with.

I guess the problem, as I've already said, is that using profanity to explain a persons clause constantly cheapens the overall spirit of the dialogue.

Modifié par Any0day, 26 mars 2011 - 01:49 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

What the OP needs to understand is that Bioware's trying to cater to the CoD crowd, as said by Laidlaw himself. The CoD crowd is mostly composed of 10-14 year old boys. Thus, the maturity in the games has dropped significantly and is replaced by dialogue that is fitting for these young kids when they talk over a microphone.

-Polite

[John Forseti]

Swearing is a fact of life, and as long as it isn't overused or is out-the-window-innapropriate it does have a place in good, mature dialogue.

PoliteAssasin wrote...

What the OP needs to understand is that Bioware's trying to cater to the CoD crowd, as said by Laidlaw himself. The CoD crowd is mostly composed of 10-14 year old boys. Thus, the maturity in the games has dropped significantly and is replaced by dialogue that is fitting for these young kids when they talk over a microphone.

-Polite

Yet to find anyone in dragonage screaming "****ING FLAMING ****, IMMA **** YOUR MOTHA!"

[Hathur]

I don't mind it personally... It's used so frequently in day to day life I don't even bat an eye when I hear it in a game.. if anything it feels more .. normal.

Besides.. who wouldn't want to see Hawke shout this at someone

[Jaron Oberyn]

John Forseti wrote...

Swearing is a fact of life, and as long as it isn't overused or is out-the-window-innapropriate it does have a place in good, mature dialogue.

PoliteAssasin wrote...

What the OP needs to understand is that Bioware's trying to cater to the CoD crowd, as said by Laidlaw himself. The CoD crowd is mostly composed of 10-14 year old boys. Thus, the maturity in the games has dropped significantly and is replaced by dialogue that is fitting for these young kids when they talk over a microphone.

-Polite

Yet to find anyone in dragonage screaming "****ING FLAMING ****, IMMA **** YOUR MOTHA!"

Don't worry. If Laidlaw has his way, you'll be in multiplayer lobbies with a bunch of little kids screeching through their microphones. 

-Polite

[ginzaen]

the game is an 18? so it's to be expected?

[John Forseti]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

John Forseti wrote...

Swearing is a fact of life, and as long as it isn't overused or is out-the-window-innapropriate it does have a place in good, mature dialogue.

PoliteAssasin wrote...

What the OP needs to understand is that Bioware's trying to cater to the CoD crowd, as said by Laidlaw himself. The CoD crowd is mostly composed of 10-14 year old boys. Thus, the maturity in the games has dropped significantly and is replaced by dialogue that is fitting for these young kids when they talk over a microphone.

-Polite

Yet to find anyone in dragonage screaming "****ING FLAMING ****, IMMA **** YOUR MOTHA!"

Don't worry. If Laidlaw has his way, you'll be in multiplayer lobbies with a bunch of little kids screeching through their microphones. 

-Polite

Not even Satan would be so cruel!

[LadyJaneGrey]

OP: If you're looking for a more PG experience, just ignore Isabela. I'm not sure the writing is really different from Origins...that game had Zevran after all. If shock-value sexuality and language isn't your cup of tea, don't use them.

[halO bendeR]

Any0day wrote...

It's could quite possibly be a 'pet-peeve,' I won't argue you that. Although I definitely feel it has an impact on the writing, which I'll get into.

I'm really having trouble understanding your position. You concede that other media properties such as Deadwood and the Tudors can get away with moderning up the language, but for some reason Dragon Age 2 can not? Why exactly is that in your opinion?
Seriously, name me ANY movie, game, show or book that uses Old English to great fanfare. They do not exist. 

Well, I dropped my pre-order after playing the demo and bought it on amazon after it went on sale, so I have no DLC and have no plans to pick it up - so I can't comment on Sabastian personally. From what I've heard from various friends, though, is that the character is realitively shallow.

I'd agree, you do lack proper perspective on the matter; Unlike ME2's downloadable companions, Sebastian has just as much content as any other character in the game. Whether his personality is 'shallow' may be a matter of opinion, but I for one found him quite compelling.
You did however sidestep the question of Merrill who WAS a companion everyone has access to. And I could go on from there: I don't recall Bethany, Anders or Fenris constantly swearing either. So who prey tell are the characters that offend you? 

An interesting argument, although potentially flawed. Certainly in the post-roman (religion, aka medieval) era it was more uncommon to spout profanity or heresay - people were hung for lesser crimes. Even those who could be argued as being 'deviants' or outcasts, such as Isabela, would never be seen anywhere near a church or 'chantry.' You certainly don't fear the wrath of God (or more appropriately, the church) anywhere near us much now as in the past.

Seriously, lets drop the facade that this argument has some intellectual merrit to it: Has it escaped your attention that this is a FANTASY setting?
Sure it resembles medieval Europe in some regards, but they're also taking HUGE liberties that require the suspention of disbelief --Dragons, Gremlocks, The Fade, Blood Magic-- I find it funny that your biggest gripe in that regard is the use of curse words.    

Just wanted to add, this isn't my ''huge point'' for denouncing the game's writing, however there are other threads pursuing those avenues and I'm not going to just mirror that; I'd rather focus on a different area that bothered me; but by no means is it a ''huge factor.''

I did ask you to provide examples of where you thought the game's writing suffered. I don't think it would sidetrack the main topic of this thread to do so, I just want to fully understand your perspective on the matter.

Probably the most compelling argument I've seen although you use the word 'modern' loosely; but I would agree they are indeed trying to appease the mass audience. Unfortunately, up until resently that wasn't bioware's agenda, and it's not a vision I fall in line with.

I use the term 'modern' to encompass anything that would be even remotely understood by today's audiance and thus have a chance at success.
Also, what are you talking about 'it's not Bioware's agenda'? I haven't detected a noticable difference between the language used in Dragon Age 2 and the language used in every other Bioware title ever produced.

PoliteAssasin wrote...

What the OP needs to understand is
that Bioware's trying to cater to the CoD crowd, as said by Laidlaw
himself. The CoD crowd is mostly composed of 10-14 year old boys. Thus,
the maturity in the games has dropped significantly and is replaced by
dialogue that is fitting for these young kids when they talk over a
microphone.

-Polite

See that's funny. If such
were the case --Bioware catering to the 10-14 year old boys-- how come
there's absolutely no usage of the two most commonly espoused curses by
12 year olds. Here's a hint, they both begin with the letter 'f'.

[Sen4lifE]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

What the OP needs to understand is that Bioware's trying to cater to the CoD crowd, as said by Laidlaw himself. The CoD crowd is mostly composed of 10-14 year old boys. Thus, the maturity in the games has dropped significantly and is replaced by dialogue that is fitting for these young kids when they talk over a microphone.

-Polite

Actually, no.  I've seen that page everyone keeps refering to: he said that many people who play games like Call of Duty are also attracted to sorts of games like Assassin's Creed and games different from just First Person Shooters however they don't consider Role Playing Games as Role Playing Games even when they do play them.

[Medhia Nox]

[Clenched Fist]!!

[Aumata]

OP it sounds like you are stating your personal view as fact. DA2 profanity seemed rather tamed. Even more so when you are hanging at a brothel, or the hangman. By the way, DA:O profanity was rather large also. Though it was cleverly disguise in another usage of the word, sod.

[andysdead]

Funny thing is, I didn't really notice any profanity until you said something. Guess it's just part of my everyday lingo. /shrug.

[Eludajae]

Honestly, I hear more profanity in my walk to work from my house by passers by than I heard in this game. Please people this was a Teen rated game, most teenagers have sworn more in one hour of High School than most adults do in a week. If you think this game is going to shock your kids, you haven't gotten out much. Not being overly harsh there, its an honest statement, if you feel this game has too much profanity you really need to get out and hear your kids at school. One day in the lunch room where no one can see you back in the kitchen should be enough for you to realize they know more cuss words than you do.

[lobi]

Are the Profanitys those rock things? (bats eyelashes)

[signas82]

Don't listen to any of these people with their hoity toity artistic ramblings because if they want to play a game and scrutinize every single word then let them, but they are not the majority. The cursing in this game was negligible at best and if the person curses then he or she should curse. Also no one in real life who curses pauses and asks themselves a million questions like "Will I seem cheap and classless if I drop the F bomb?" "Will my meaning not be conveyed as richly?" etc. People live, stuff happens or they react to something and an expletive flies so please don't make DA3 like some boring book that these people who are complaining might write or read.

[Addai]

Any0day wrote...

Probably the most compelling argument I've seen although you use the word 'modern' loosely; but I would agree they are indeed trying to appease the mass audience. Unfortunately, up until resently that wasn't bioware's agenda, and it's not a vision I fall in line with.

I guess the problem, as I've already said, is that using profanity to explain a persons clause constantly cheapens the overall spirit of the dialogue.

What modern profanity?  You don't think people cussed in medieval or ancient history?  Feces and sex have been around a long time, my friend.

Though I'm starting to think you're just a troll because I find it hard to take your argument seriously at all.  Especially since your own verbiage is pretty tortured.